Rinehart to be heard
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Oakview2
Silver Member
A favorable ruling in the Supreme Couirt Case will mean the appealate case will remain published, and that will have a direct effect on Ochoa's ruling in the SB case. That being said, it is my belief that most all courts in this state are heavily influenced by Sacramento and politics and that we will lose this case on June 1. JMHO
Goldwasher
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hopefully the supreme court agrees and Brandon gets his full defense heard. Like Barry said they heave to prosecute. if there is no decision(case dropped) the state doesn't have the foundation they are hoping for. Someone else is going to end up in court for the same thing. The reason the state hasn't gotten the decision they desire is the strength of Brandons case.
Hoprfully some of the more vocal yet fumbling rights groups get back to supporting the case that actually matters! After all they have been asking for donations for this very reason and are staring to lose the little focus they had.
Hoprfully some of the more vocal yet fumbling rights groups get back to supporting the case that actually matters! After all they have been asking for donations for this very reason and are staring to lose the little focus they had.
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MadMarshall
Hero Member
You must be a dreaming GW.. These rights groups have one purpose and one purpose only.. That's to make a living off the donations of Suckers.. They seem to be right on track.. I suspect more donations go in the pockets of these so called Rights groups then to any Cause.. As far as Brandons case is concerned its a Pot of Gold for groups like AMRA..
The Attorney retained by these rights groups and by Brandon is a SCOUNDREL. We don't need luck nor do we need a miracle.. Just dirt thrown over our graves. As long we keep letting incompetent Attorneys and these modern day beggers (mining rights groups) have a part then we will always be played as fools.
Hard Prospector
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I couldn't agree more with your thoughts brother BUT,
Special interests, big bucks and lawyers control the political and legal process in this country now (as we all know). To fight the good fight takes resources and you get what you pay for.
russau
Gold Member
Lawyers win and EVERYONE else loses ,whenever anybody has to go to court ! Thats how they live in them big homes and have expensive cars with drivers for them!
Hoser John
Gold Member
Amen as insanity and not law or rule ruin the day....John
Goldwasher
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I guess we will agree that they aren't doing everything they could to help the part of the comminity that wants to do more than pan and run a stream sluice
Clubs are made up of their members. I think they should push their leadership to do many things differently but not everything. I don't believe it is the memberships intention to join and donate themselves out of existance.
You have mentioned in more than one occasion that you are against larger mechanized operations and the current claims process and mining acts as they are written.
So what have mining clubs and pro mining groups done that have curtailed the types of techniques you use to recover gold Victor?
If there werent these groups trying to organize to stand up to the anti mining groups ho would do it?
Why are they the only groups besides fighting mining issues with a few other outdoor groups lending a little bit of alliance? Other than the court cases the big boys deal with.
WHo do you wish as doing it instead?
how do you wish they were doing it?
please elaborate to us and Brandon how his attorney is a scoundrel.
your a sniper on open public lands how have you been damaged by the state regulations or the Sierra fund or the center for biological diversity.
Many here have seen your complaints over and over.
Do you have a better idea?
Or do we just get to hear from you when you want to accuse club members and tnet members of basically being theives and suckers.
What skin do you actually have in the game. What action have you taken theat benefits anyone but yourself.
just curious
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Oakview2
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fowledup
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“He who is not an idealist at twenty compels one to doubt the generosity of his heart; but he who, after thirty, persists, compels one to doubt the soundness of his mind.”......................................Where we at on this?
Effectiveness, underlying intent, alternative agendas aside, blah blah blah- what segment of the mining community has done the most to raise or donate the most for funding the continuance of these legal battles?
Effectiveness, underlying intent, alternative agendas aside, blah blah blah- what segment of the mining community has done the most to raise or donate the most for funding the continuance of these legal battles?
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MadMarshall
Hero Member
I guess we will agree that they aren't doing everything they could to help the part of the comminity that wants to do more than pan and run a stream sluice
Clubs are made up of their members. I think they should push their leadership to do many things differently but not everything. I don't believe it is the memberships intention to join and donate themselves out of existance.
Intentions and failure go hand in hand..
You have mentioned in more than one occasion that you are against larger mechanized operations and the current claims process and mining acts as they are written. On the latter part I do agree that the current claim process and the mining acts are misused and outdated for todays day and age. Against no..
So what have mining clubs and pro mining groups done that have curtailed the types of techniques you use to recover gold Victor?
Education my friend.. I have said it before and ill say it again.. EDUCATION..
If there werent these groups trying to organize to stand up to the anti mining groups ho would do it?
Who did before these mining groups I wonder? Mining districts maybe? Mining groups are relatively new..
Why are they the only groups besides fighting mining issues with a few other outdoor groups lending a little bit of alliance? Other than the court cases the big boys deal with. WHo do you wish as doing it instead?
how do you wish they were doing it?
Mining groups are very good at pointing out what they are doing. But in truth nothing is getting done. As far as who? There have always been people who have taken a role.. Though until recently it wasn't a way to make a living. Activism is getting to be quite the profession these days..
please elaborate to us and Brandon how his attorney is a scoundrel.
He is an Attorney..
your a sniper on open public lands how have you been damaged by the state regulations or the Sierra fund or the center for biological diversity.
I am a prospector.. I use whatever methods that best suits the area I am in. though I am partial to sniping. Answer this yourself.. How have they affected you? You think they effect us differently or maybe some not at all..
Many here have seen your complaints over and over.
GOOD.. maybe it will few cause to think..
Do you have a better idea?
Education is a good start.
Or do we just get to hear from you when you want to accuse club members and tnet members of basically being theives and suckers.
No just when I am home I suppose. Soon I will be back out and about. I can not speak for thieves and suckers and who they are but I can speak for the results of some actions. And yea I guess Thieves and Suckers pretty much sum it up..
What skin do you actually have in the game. What action have you taken theat benefits anyone but yourself.just curious[/QUOTE]
Its a lifestyle my friend.. I will not ever do anything else.. UNDERSTAND.. I will never get a job nor will I stop if they made all of prospecting illegal. What skin in the game do I have? most of you will never understand I think. A lifestyle. My lifestyle. Its a freedom that most will not understand. An independence few know anymore.
What action have you taken theat benefits anyone but yourself
GW you crack me up sometimes...... Well last Thursday I brokedown and was stuck at a restarea for 6 hours awaiting a Tow. I gave a man all my food and propane and a most my smokes. He looked hungry his mind was off. I treated him like a person that mattered. When people ask me for tips and places to go prospecting I do my best to put them in good areas and give sound advise. Even from time to time I take people out.. I never ever charge people for my time even though it cost me not just time but money. I guess by benefit you are talking about profit.. believe me when I say I do benefit.. Just maybe not the way others Benefit..
But if truth be told I am a very selfish individual.. More of a sinner then a saint.. I was in Tijuana a couple months ago.. Please don't ask for a confession!
Clubs are made up of their members. I think they should push their leadership to do many things differently but not everything. I don't believe it is the memberships intention to join and donate themselves out of existance.
Intentions and failure go hand in hand..
You have mentioned in more than one occasion that you are against larger mechanized operations and the current claims process and mining acts as they are written. On the latter part I do agree that the current claim process and the mining acts are misused and outdated for todays day and age. Against no..
So what have mining clubs and pro mining groups done that have curtailed the types of techniques you use to recover gold Victor?
Education my friend.. I have said it before and ill say it again.. EDUCATION..
If there werent these groups trying to organize to stand up to the anti mining groups ho would do it?
Who did before these mining groups I wonder? Mining districts maybe? Mining groups are relatively new..
Why are they the only groups besides fighting mining issues with a few other outdoor groups lending a little bit of alliance? Other than the court cases the big boys deal with. WHo do you wish as doing it instead?
how do you wish they were doing it?
Mining groups are very good at pointing out what they are doing. But in truth nothing is getting done. As far as who? There have always been people who have taken a role.. Though until recently it wasn't a way to make a living. Activism is getting to be quite the profession these days..
please elaborate to us and Brandon how his attorney is a scoundrel.
He is an Attorney..
your a sniper on open public lands how have you been damaged by the state regulations or the Sierra fund or the center for biological diversity.
I am a prospector.. I use whatever methods that best suits the area I am in. though I am partial to sniping. Answer this yourself.. How have they affected you? You think they effect us differently or maybe some not at all..
Many here have seen your complaints over and over.
GOOD.. maybe it will few cause to think..
Do you have a better idea?
Education is a good start.
Or do we just get to hear from you when you want to accuse club members and tnet members of basically being theives and suckers.
No just when I am home I suppose. Soon I will be back out and about. I can not speak for thieves and suckers and who they are but I can speak for the results of some actions. And yea I guess Thieves and Suckers pretty much sum it up..
What skin do you actually have in the game. What action have you taken theat benefits anyone but yourself.just curious[/QUOTE]
Its a lifestyle my friend.. I will not ever do anything else.. UNDERSTAND.. I will never get a job nor will I stop if they made all of prospecting illegal. What skin in the game do I have? most of you will never understand I think. A lifestyle. My lifestyle. Its a freedom that most will not understand. An independence few know anymore.
What action have you taken theat benefits anyone but yourself
GW you crack me up sometimes...... Well last Thursday I brokedown and was stuck at a restarea for 6 hours awaiting a Tow. I gave a man all my food and propane and a most my smokes. He looked hungry his mind was off. I treated him like a person that mattered. When people ask me for tips and places to go prospecting I do my best to put them in good areas and give sound advise. Even from time to time I take people out.. I never ever charge people for my time even though it cost me not just time but money. I guess by benefit you are talking about profit.. believe me when I say I do benefit.. Just maybe not the way others Benefit..
But if truth be told I am a very selfish individual.. More of a sinner then a saint.. I was in Tijuana a couple months ago.. Please don't ask for a confession!
Goldwasher
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Same thing everyone in the community wants to maintain . Their lifestyle. Something they enjoy immensly. For more people than you give credit to it is just that to them. I guess because you are you' You feel your lifestyle is different or somehow more important. What you wish would happen to the laws is based on how it would make access for you easier. I can see no other reason. That would essentially lead to many others having less access and rights.
There are a quite a few people other than you benifiting from prospecting. I don't relate prospecting only to gold. There are thousands of citizens profiting from mining and prospecting on their claims. Directly related to the mining acts and claims. If they werent over regulated they would profit more and develop the resources at their disposal more often. I'm talking about at the end of a shovel not selling gear or widgets.
People are selfish and misguided often. I made my comments directly to clubs and membership that they should hold their leadership and their donations accountable for their actions. There have been mining clubs and support groups for about as long as there has been a push to stop anyone from utilizing their right to prospect and mine.
First it was you can't mine if you don't really mine. Then environmentalism really started to creep in. One of the tactics is to illigitmaze what small artisinal one and two man ops are really trying to do. Treating it like it is a hobby. Stating that you can't ever really profit running a small op during short seasons and within the regulations as written. Therefore you shouldn't even be allowed to try and start a small op that moves say four to ten yards a day.
You have your self rallied agains people having the desire to move past crevicing ans streambank work. As it is destructive and wastful in effort because you can show better results with a screwdriver and broken gold pan. You make great attemt to illigitimize people that are essentially just like you. They have the same desire to maintain their lifestyle. They are being attacked and harrased by people who would gladly prevent them from ALL types of prospecting.
You have not been harmed by either side. How could you be if your going to do it NO MATTER WHAT? How have groups "educated" the small scale mining community into this situation? Mining districts only work when they are small and local. They only have/had respect when they were considered a legitimate liason betwwen the miners and the government. If it wasn't for the groups that exist. The misguided and the more effective ones that are rarely mentioned here. You would have your wish. You would be out doing what your doing because you don't care. It's not a difficult way to live for a few rugged individuals. You know that. I have to guess thats why you don't care how otheres would be affected. Your just going to do what you want. And at the end of the day you would feel better knowing that all the misusers and abusers weren't out digging. And thats ok because it wasn't really a legitamite lifestyle for "Them" as they didn't fit into your list of criteria whatever that may be.
There are a quite a few people other than you benifiting from prospecting. I don't relate prospecting only to gold. There are thousands of citizens profiting from mining and prospecting on their claims. Directly related to the mining acts and claims. If they werent over regulated they would profit more and develop the resources at their disposal more often. I'm talking about at the end of a shovel not selling gear or widgets.
People are selfish and misguided often. I made my comments directly to clubs and membership that they should hold their leadership and their donations accountable for their actions. There have been mining clubs and support groups for about as long as there has been a push to stop anyone from utilizing their right to prospect and mine.
First it was you can't mine if you don't really mine. Then environmentalism really started to creep in. One of the tactics is to illigitmaze what small artisinal one and two man ops are really trying to do. Treating it like it is a hobby. Stating that you can't ever really profit running a small op during short seasons and within the regulations as written. Therefore you shouldn't even be allowed to try and start a small op that moves say four to ten yards a day.
You have your self rallied agains people having the desire to move past crevicing ans streambank work. As it is destructive and wastful in effort because you can show better results with a screwdriver and broken gold pan. You make great attemt to illigitimize people that are essentially just like you. They have the same desire to maintain their lifestyle. They are being attacked and harrased by people who would gladly prevent them from ALL types of prospecting.
You have not been harmed by either side. How could you be if your going to do it NO MATTER WHAT? How have groups "educated" the small scale mining community into this situation? Mining districts only work when they are small and local. They only have/had respect when they were considered a legitimate liason betwwen the miners and the government. If it wasn't for the groups that exist. The misguided and the more effective ones that are rarely mentioned here. You would have your wish. You would be out doing what your doing because you don't care. It's not a difficult way to live for a few rugged individuals. You know that. I have to guess thats why you don't care how otheres would be affected. Your just going to do what you want. And at the end of the day you would feel better knowing that all the misusers and abusers weren't out digging. And thats ok because it wasn't really a legitamite lifestyle for "Them" as they didn't fit into your list of criteria whatever that may be.
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MadMarshall
Hero Member
sniping is just a glorified term for sampling. little tip for the day.
Lifestyle was a little to broad of a term.. Career hows that.
Its hard thing to swallow that the times are changing.. History is a pretty good teacher in regards to this. How one applies it is up to them..
Who stands to lose you ask. It seems to me its the people who earn their living that way. recreational prospectors/miners stand to lose very little. You ask me about mining rights and who they apply too.. I think they apply to these people who wish to make their living prospecting/mining. Not the recreational community. That's it in a nutshell.
As far as my environment tendency? Its true.. I love the land I live in. And I rather not see it destroyed by Morons nor the Greedy. Take it how you like .. Make me pro dredging or against. make me a hippie or redneck.. whatever suits you I suppose...
These mining clubs spread so much misinformation and take absolutely no responsibility what so ever. They neither educate nor do they play any kind of positive role in anything. They exsist soley to exploit the current situation. They make absolutely no effort into actually educating the community nor do they take anytime into teaching and improving mining methods.. Not all mining orgs/clubs but the vast majority .
Lifestyle was a little to broad of a term.. Career hows that.
Its hard thing to swallow that the times are changing.. History is a pretty good teacher in regards to this. How one applies it is up to them..
Who stands to lose you ask. It seems to me its the people who earn their living that way. recreational prospectors/miners stand to lose very little. You ask me about mining rights and who they apply too.. I think they apply to these people who wish to make their living prospecting/mining. Not the recreational community. That's it in a nutshell.
As far as my environment tendency? Its true.. I love the land I live in. And I rather not see it destroyed by Morons nor the Greedy. Take it how you like .. Make me pro dredging or against. make me a hippie or redneck.. whatever suits you I suppose...
These mining clubs spread so much misinformation and take absolutely no responsibility what so ever. They neither educate nor do they play any kind of positive role in anything. They exsist soley to exploit the current situation. They make absolutely no effort into actually educating the community nor do they take anytime into teaching and improving mining methods.. Not all mining orgs/clubs but the vast majority .
russau
Gold Member
Ive run into the same about most clubs! I quit the club I started in St. Louis , Misery............ to many people joined it to be entertained and didn't do sqwat to help!
Asmbandits
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Not sure where your getting this from or if its just more self righteous opinion, but everything ive come to read of " sniping or sniper" isn't just sampling or even close. Looks like not just clubs are responsible for misinforming.
Honestly from the way I've seen the term used, especially from the old timers in books, Id say Victor that Goldwasher is spot on with his use in describing you. Some may use it for sampling, or for suiting up and pulling pickers underwater or what not, but I believe it best describes individuals that come to an area un announced and work land that they have no real claim to or own, open or private, and most of the time work easy deposits living off what they find and moving on. Jesse Coffey was described as a Sniper in the book "Bacon and Beans from a gold pan" and his lifestyle sounds strangely similar to yours only its not the 30's and not in a depression and able bodies are out working jobs that are available instead of being forced to strongly consider the lifestyle.
NeoTokyo
Bronze Member
Here is to hoping for the best come June 1st.
As for sniping as glorified sampling..... I would not bundle it up with sampling.
That is your opinion, that is ok and there are different ways to snipe.
I have been accused of dredging before because my tailings piles and holes look like a dredge has been there.
If they think we are dredging because of the amount of material that we can move, then you can be sure they will come after us next.
Sniping is its own form of prospecting.
As for sniping as glorified sampling..... I would not bundle it up with sampling.
That is your opinion, that is ok and there are different ways to snipe.
I have been accused of dredging before because my tailings piles and holes look like a dredge has been there.
If they think we are dredging because of the amount of material that we can move, then you can be sure they will come after us next.
Sniping is its own form of prospecting.
MadMarshall
Hero Member
word play how fun..
geewiz guys.. to much fun.
but neo says it best
Sniping is its own form of prospecting.
I wonder what prospecting means to most of you? No doubt a chance to find gold.. I may spend my whole life and may /probably never find what I am prospecting for..
Gentlemen pick everything I say to death! I am ok with it.
Prospector for life!! Well at least till I find what I am looking for then I will hire some Miners...
geewiz guys.. to much fun.
but neo says it best
Sniping is its own form of prospecting.
I wonder what prospecting means to most of you? No doubt a chance to find gold.. I may spend my whole life and may /probably never find what I am prospecting for..
Gentlemen pick everything I say to death! I am ok with it.
Prospector for life!! Well at least till I find what I am looking for then I will hire some Miners...
NeoTokyo
Bronze Member
By definition, Prospecting is the same as Sampling.
I say prospecting because I think calling it mining is overkill as sniping falls into this gray area.
Its not about production and its not always about sampling an area to see if it is economically viable to bring in more efficient tools and equipment.
I don't want to call it recreational either, although it is one of the most enjoyable ways to find gold.
Sniping means a lot of things to me and no one definition beyond Underwater Gold Sniping is exact so I say Prospecting.
Edit: I think most that have at least a couple years into this would group Prospecting and Sampling into 2 separate meanings that are loosely connected.
Its not word play, it is a deeper understanding for the word itself and the actions related to them.
I say prospecting because I think calling it mining is overkill as sniping falls into this gray area.
Its not about production and its not always about sampling an area to see if it is economically viable to bring in more efficient tools and equipment.
I don't want to call it recreational either, although it is one of the most enjoyable ways to find gold.
Sniping means a lot of things to me and no one definition beyond Underwater Gold Sniping is exact so I say Prospecting.
Edit: I think most that have at least a couple years into this would group Prospecting and Sampling into 2 separate meanings that are loosely connected.
Its not word play, it is a deeper understanding for the word itself and the actions related to them.
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Asmbandits
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No big deal, no play on words.. Sometimes peoples egos get the best of them, opinions are worded as fact and that's what I was pointing out. I'm guilt of it myself, and when I am proven wrong I admit my mistakes and move on. Might not mean much to some but to me it shows a lot about a person. Some prefer to shrug it off and not accept a lesson learned, and that's too bad. Be it something simple, or a slough of simple things or something major, I think it tells a lot about someone who can hear out and understand the other side of the discussion and can admit their faults.
As far as the term "sniping" as in reference related to gold prospecting, It can mean many different things depending on who you ask and they can all be right. I do still believe that with the introduction of new processes and technology over many decades the meaning has changed with it to what most of us familiarize it with today. I also believe it was once used to describe something much more than what it is today and have seen it used as such long before there were dive masks, snorkels and and snuffer bottles. Who cares right? No big deal... And its not really, Just wanted to share some incite to what Victor had posted, and I could have worded my post better myself.
Funny thing is that if we were classified by the old timers today going off of what they describe is so, Id bet they would consider most of us here snipers, especially those that don't file and own and consistently work a valid claim on a somewhat large scale.
Here are the only references I can find to support what im describing. These definitions while very loose and up to interpretation but I feel tie into my description posted previously.
"Sniping has two related meanings in a mining sense. To the old-timer, sniping meant using light, portable equipment to work the high-grade deposits along the banks of gold-bearing streams and rivers. These banks were sampled quickly. When a suitably-rich deposit was found, it was worked as fast as possible and the miner was off to the next spot.
Today, sniping also means working gold-bearing waters with a mask and snorkel and a few hand tools. Higher-grade spots are still worked quickly and the miner is off to the next hot spot. The equipment must be light, because the sniper usually has to cover a large area." » sniping
"SNIPING -- In miner's jargon, this word meant the act of prospecting and re-working old claims, dumps, and other sites that have been abandoned. It also refers to cleaning out bedrock cracks." Mining And Prospecting Glossary
As far as the term "sniping" as in reference related to gold prospecting, It can mean many different things depending on who you ask and they can all be right. I do still believe that with the introduction of new processes and technology over many decades the meaning has changed with it to what most of us familiarize it with today. I also believe it was once used to describe something much more than what it is today and have seen it used as such long before there were dive masks, snorkels and and snuffer bottles. Who cares right? No big deal... And its not really, Just wanted to share some incite to what Victor had posted, and I could have worded my post better myself.
Funny thing is that if we were classified by the old timers today going off of what they describe is so, Id bet they would consider most of us here snipers, especially those that don't file and own and consistently work a valid claim on a somewhat large scale.
Here are the only references I can find to support what im describing. These definitions while very loose and up to interpretation but I feel tie into my description posted previously.
"Sniping has two related meanings in a mining sense. To the old-timer, sniping meant using light, portable equipment to work the high-grade deposits along the banks of gold-bearing streams and rivers. These banks were sampled quickly. When a suitably-rich deposit was found, it was worked as fast as possible and the miner was off to the next spot.
Today, sniping also means working gold-bearing waters with a mask and snorkel and a few hand tools. Higher-grade spots are still worked quickly and the miner is off to the next hot spot. The equipment must be light, because the sniper usually has to cover a large area." » sniping
"SNIPING -- In miner's jargon, this word meant the act of prospecting and re-working old claims, dumps, and other sites that have been abandoned. It also refers to cleaning out bedrock cracks." Mining And Prospecting Glossary
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