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  1. #31
    us
    Mad Marshall

    Nov 2012
    na
    937
    1632 times
    Prospecting
    I guess we will agree that they aren't doing everything they could to help the part of the comminity that wants to do more than pan and run a stream sluice

    Clubs are made up of their members. I think they should push their leadership to do many things differently but not everything. I don't believe it is the memberships intention to join and donate themselves out of existance.
    Intentions and failure go hand in hand..

    You have mentioned in more than one occasion that you are against larger mechanized operations and the current claims process and mining acts as they are written. On the latter part I do agree that the current claim process and the mining acts are misused and outdated for todays day and age. Against no..

    So what have mining clubs and pro mining groups done that have curtailed the types of techniques you use to recover gold Victor?
    Education my friend.. I have said it before and ill say it again.. EDUCATION..
    If there werent these groups trying to organize to stand up to the anti mining groups ho would do it?
    Who did before these mining groups I wonder? Mining districts maybe? Mining groups are relatively new..
    Why are they the only groups besides fighting mining issues with a few other outdoor groups lending a little bit of alliance? Other than the court cases the big boys deal with. WHo do you wish as doing it instead?
    how do you wish they were doing it?

    Mining groups are very good at pointing out what they are doing. But in truth nothing is getting done. As far as who? There have always been people who have taken a role.. Though until recently it wasn't a way to make a living. Activism is getting to be quite the profession these days..

    please elaborate to us and Brandon how his attorney is a scoundrel.
    He is an Attorney..
    your a sniper on open public lands how have you been damaged by the state regulations or the Sierra fund or the center for biological diversity.
    I am a prospector.. I use whatever methods that best suits the area I am in. though I am partial to sniping. Answer this yourself.. How have they affected you? You think they effect us differently or maybe some not at all..

    Many here have seen your complaints over and over.
    GOOD.. maybe it will few cause to think..

    Do you have a better idea?
    Education is a good start.
    Or do we just get to hear from you when you want to accuse club members and tnet members of basically being theives and suckers.
    No just when I am home I suppose. Soon I will be back out and about. I can not speak for thieves and suckers and who they are but I can speak for the results of some actions. And yea I guess Thieves and Suckers pretty much sum it up..

    What skin do you actually have in the game. What action have you taken theat benefits anyone but yourself.just curious[/QUOTE]

    Its a lifestyle my friend.. I will not ever do anything else.. UNDERSTAND.. I will never get a job nor will I stop if they made all of prospecting illegal. What skin in the game do I have? most of you will never understand I think. A lifestyle. My lifestyle. Its a freedom that most will not understand. An independence few know anymore.

    What action have you taken theat benefits anyone but yourself
    GW you crack me up sometimes...... Well last Thursday I brokedown and was stuck at a restarea for 6 hours awaiting a Tow. I gave a man all my food and propane and a most my smokes. He looked hungry his mind was off. I treated him like a person that mattered. When people ask me for tips and places to go prospecting I do my best to put them in good areas and give sound advise. Even from time to time I take people out.. I never ever charge people for my time even though it cost me not just time but money. I guess by benefit you are talking about profit.. believe me when I say I do benefit.. Just maybe not the way others Benefit..
    But if truth be told I am a very selfish individual.. More of a sinner then a saint.. I was in Tijuana a couple months ago.. Please don't ask for a confession!
    et1955 likes this.

  2. #32
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, ACME handbook for TRUE prospectors (unread)
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    Same thing everyone in the community wants to maintain . Their lifestyle. Something they enjoy immensly. For more people than you give credit to it is just that to them. I guess because you are you' You feel your lifestyle is different or somehow more important. What you wish would happen to the laws is based on how it would make access for you easier. I can see no other reason. That would essentially lead to many others having less access and rights.

    There are a quite a few people other than you benifiting from prospecting. I don't relate prospecting only to gold. There are thousands of citizens profiting from mining and prospecting on their claims. Directly related to the mining acts and claims. If they werent over regulated they would profit more and develop the resources at their disposal more often. I'm talking about at the end of a shovel not selling gear or widgets.

    People are selfish and misguided often. I made my comments directly to clubs and membership that they should hold their leadership and their donations accountable for their actions. There have been mining clubs and support groups for about as long as there has been a push to stop anyone from utilizing their right to prospect and mine.
    First it was you can't mine if you don't really mine. Then environmentalism really started to creep in. One of the tactics is to illigitmaze what small artisinal one and two man ops are really trying to do. Treating it like it is a hobby. Stating that you can't ever really profit running a small op during short seasons and within the regulations as written. Therefore you shouldn't even be allowed to try and start a small op that moves say four to ten yards a day.

    You have your self rallied agains people having the desire to move past crevicing ans streambank work. As it is destructive and wastful in effort because you can show better results with a screwdriver and broken gold pan. You make great attemt to illigitimize people that are essentially just like you. They have the same desire to maintain their lifestyle. They are being attacked and harrased by people who would gladly prevent them from ALL types of prospecting.

    You have not been harmed by either side. How could you be if your going to do it NO MATTER WHAT? How have groups "educated" the small scale mining community into this situation? Mining districts only work when they are small and local. They only have/had respect when they were considered a legitimate liason betwwen the miners and the government. If it wasn't for the groups that exist. The misguided and the more effective ones that are rarely mentioned here. You would have your wish. You would be out doing what your doing because you don't care. It's not a difficult way to live for a few rugged individuals. You know that. I have to guess thats why you don't care how otheres would be affected. Your just going to do what you want. And at the end of the day you would feel better knowing that all the misusers and abusers weren't out digging. And thats ok because it wasn't really a legitamite lifestyle for "Them" as they didn't fit into your list of criteria whatever that may be.
    Last edited by Goldwasher; May 16, 2016 at 12:48 PM.

  3. #33
    us
    Mad Marshall

    Nov 2012
    na
    937
    1632 times
    Prospecting
    sniping is just a glorified term for sampling. little tip for the day.

    Lifestyle was a little to broad of a term.. Career hows that.
    Its hard thing to swallow that the times are changing.. History is a pretty good teacher in regards to this. How one applies it is up to them..
    Who stands to lose you ask. It seems to me its the people who earn their living that way. recreational prospectors/miners stand to lose very little. You ask me about mining rights and who they apply too.. I think they apply to these people who wish to make their living prospecting/mining. Not the recreational community. That's it in a nutshell.
    As far as my environment tendency? Its true.. I love the land I live in. And I rather not see it destroyed by Morons nor the Greedy. Take it how you like .. Make me pro dredging or against. make me a hippie or redneck.. whatever suits you I suppose...
    These mining clubs spread so much misinformation and take absolutely no responsibility what so ever. They neither educate nor do they play any kind of positive role in anything. They exsist soley to exploit the current situation. They make absolutely no effort into actually educating the community nor do they take anytime into teaching and improving mining methods.. Not all mining orgs/clubs but the vast majority .
    russau and Hoser John like this.

  4. #34

    May 2005
    St. Louis, missouri
    5,846
    4469 times
    Ive run into the same about most clubs! I quit the club I started in St. Louis , Misery............ to many people joined it to be entertained and didn't do sqwat to help!
    Clay Diggins and NeoTokyo like this.

  5. #35

    Mar 2014
    NorCal
    Fisher GB2, Bazooka Prospector 36", EZ sluice, Blue Bowl..
    995
    2226 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMarshall View Post
    sniping is just a glorified term for sampling. little tip for the day.
    Not sure where your getting this from or if its just more self righteous opinion, but everything ive come to read of " sniping or sniper" isn't just sampling or even close. Looks like not just clubs are responsible for misinforming.

    Honestly from the way I've seen the term used, especially from the old timers in books, Id say Victor that Goldwasher is spot on with his use in describing you. Some may use it for sampling, or for suiting up and pulling pickers underwater or what not, but I believe it best describes individuals that come to an area un announced and work land that they have no real claim to or own, open or private, and most of the time work easy deposits living off what they find and moving on. Jesse Coffey was described as a Sniper in the book "Bacon and Beans from a gold pan" and his lifestyle sounds strangely similar to yours only its not the 30's and not in a depression and able bodies are out working jobs that are available instead of being forced to strongly consider the lifestyle.
    Goldwasher and AU_Solitude like this.
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  6. #36
    us
    Sniper

    Aug 2012
    Redding
    Eyes - Nokta FORS Gold - Fisher Gold Bug II
    1,803
    1575 times
    Prospecting
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    Here is to hoping for the best come June 1st.

    As for sniping as glorified sampling..... I would not bundle it up with sampling.
    That is your opinion, that is ok and there are different ways to snipe.

    I have been accused of dredging before because my tailings piles and holes look like a dredge has been there.
    If they think we are dredging because of the amount of material that we can move, then you can be sure they will come after us next.

    Sniping is its own form of prospecting.
    Check out my Gold Sniping video's. http://www.youtube.com/CrainRacing

    Head in the water, butt in the air.
    Now I know why ducks do it!
    Underwater Sniper n00b

  7. #37
    us
    Mad Marshall

    Nov 2012
    na
    937
    1632 times
    Prospecting
    word play how fun..
    geewiz guys.. to much fun.
    but neo says it best
    Sniping is its own form of prospecting.
    I wonder what prospecting means to most of you? No doubt a chance to find gold.. I may spend my whole life and may /probably never find what I am prospecting for..

    Gentlemen pick everything I say to death! I am ok with it.

    Prospector for life!! Well at least till I find what I am looking for then I will hire some Miners...

  8. #38
    us
    Sniper

    Aug 2012
    Redding
    Eyes - Nokta FORS Gold - Fisher Gold Bug II
    1,803
    1575 times
    Prospecting
    Banner Finds (1)
    By definition, Prospecting is the same as Sampling.

    I say prospecting because I think calling it mining is overkill as sniping falls into this gray area.
    Its not about production and its not always about sampling an area to see if it is economically viable to bring in more efficient tools and equipment.
    I don't want to call it recreational either, although it is one of the most enjoyable ways to find gold.

    Sniping means a lot of things to me and no one definition beyond Underwater Gold Sniping is exact so I say Prospecting.


    Edit: I think most that have at least a couple years into this would group Prospecting and Sampling into 2 separate meanings that are loosely connected.
    Its not word play, it is a deeper understanding for the word itself and the actions related to them.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by NeoTokyo; May 16, 2016 at 10:38 PM. Reason: Thesaurus Rex
    Check out my Gold Sniping video's. http://www.youtube.com/CrainRacing

    Head in the water, butt in the air.
    Now I know why ducks do it!
    Underwater Sniper n00b

  9. #39

    Mar 2014
    NorCal
    Fisher GB2, Bazooka Prospector 36", EZ sluice, Blue Bowl..
    995
    2226 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    No big deal, no play on words.. Sometimes peoples egos get the best of them, opinions are worded as fact and that's what I was pointing out. I'm guilt of it myself, and when I am proven wrong I admit my mistakes and move on. Might not mean much to some but to me it shows a lot about a person. Some prefer to shrug it off and not accept a lesson learned, and that's too bad. Be it something simple, or a slough of simple things or something major, I think it tells a lot about someone who can hear out and understand the other side of the discussion and can admit their faults.

    As far as the term "sniping" as in reference related to gold prospecting, It can mean many different things depending on who you ask and they can all be right. I do still believe that with the introduction of new processes and technology over many decades the meaning has changed with it to what most of us familiarize it with today. I also believe it was once used to describe something much more than what it is today and have seen it used as such long before there were dive masks, snorkels and and snuffer bottles. Who cares right? No big deal... And its not really, Just wanted to share some incite to what Victor had posted, and I could have worded my post better myself.

    Funny thing is that if we were classified by the old timers today going off of what they describe is so, Id bet they would consider most of us here snipers, especially those that don't file and own and consistently work a valid claim on a somewhat large scale.

    Here are the only references I can find to support what im describing. These definitions while very loose and up to interpretation but I feel tie into my description posted previously.

    "Sniping has two related meanings in a mining sense. To the old-timer, sniping meant using light, portable equipment to work the high-grade deposits along the banks of gold-bearing streams and rivers. These banks were sampled quickly. When a suitably-rich deposit was found, it was worked as fast as possible and the miner was off to the next spot.

    Today, sniping also means working gold-bearing waters with a mask and snorkel and a few hand tools. Higher-grade spots are still worked quickly and the miner is off to the next hot spot. The equipment must be light, because the sniper usually has to cover a large area." sniping

    "SNIPING -- In miner's jargon, this word meant the act of prospecting and re-working old claims, dumps, and other sites that have been abandoned. It also refers to cleaning out bedrock cracks." Mining And Prospecting Glossary
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  10. #40
    us
    Sniper

    Aug 2012
    Redding
    Eyes - Nokta FORS Gold - Fisher Gold Bug II
    1,803
    1575 times
    Prospecting
    Banner Finds (1)
    Are you replying to me or Victor?
    Aufisher likes this.
    Check out my Gold Sniping video's. http://www.youtube.com/CrainRacing

    Head in the water, butt in the air.
    Now I know why ducks do it!
    Underwater Sniper n00b

  11. #41

    Mar 2014
    NorCal
    Fisher GB2, Bazooka Prospector 36", EZ sluice, Blue Bowl..
    995
    2226 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Not necessarily replying to anyone, I feel the consensus is that I was out of line for pointing what I did so Im further elaborating on my first post to hopefully create some clarification.
    Goldwasher and Aufisher like this.
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  12. #42
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, ACME handbook for TRUE prospectors (unread)
    5,507
    11996 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
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    Im not knocking anyone for their methods. I don't see how someone who is a prospector could rally against others who are working within the congressional acts..thats what environutz are for.

    Funny thing about a mining district is typically all the prospectors in the district got together and regulated themselves. size of claim, number of claims allowed per miner. The criteria for moving on and abandonment. As well as accepted methods of stripping ground. Actually more strict than today. I don't see Victor falling in line with a mining district. I've though about forming a local district. First rule would be that you own a claim and are developing it with a plan. anyone who you allow work it is basically operating in accordance with your sampling plan and within a written lease.... for the sake of integrity and education.

    I fully agree with the definitions given as to what a sniper is. It is a form of prospecting. Sampling not so much. I have a claim I snipe cracks and crevices because the are highgrade concentrations. I sample overburden and various presure zones to see where the gold may concentrate, move through or come from. A set samples can be a pan from various layers or across the water course. Or a three yard by volume cut across a bar to see if running bulk material is worth it. When you work textbook small seasonal gold bearing streams you find out eventually how spotty they are and how differently flood layers accumulate, seasonally strip and concentrate. You don't know crap until you run some dirt. That "Frog leg" piece I got the other day came off of the hardpack layer not bed rock..from about the fifth shovel load into the box. I also 'sniped numerous pieces right off the bottom cracks and out of the decomposing bedrock. Right where your " supposed" to find it. Yes we found gold in concentration in the general area from random sampling. It was the decision to strip and then discover a drop in the bedrock that has put us on a pretty damned good hole.

    The small scale community does a fabulous job of educating eachother. It's the guys who educate themselves. have integrity, spend hours researching and even more time in the field who have the most to offer their fellow prospectors. I help out as many begginers as I can. I want there to be more prospectors. I've never worried about filling the ranks. i know how much gold is out there and how many places there are to go. I have never ever had the feeling that clubs or the 'TYPE" of person who joins a club(is there a type) are any kind of threat to my success, access, or longevity. I fully understand why people join. I think if clubs could attract more people like me they would be better off. But, they don't attract me. I have before supported them and their members because I don't want ANY of our rights taken.

    Like I have pointed out many times they don't always make decisions based on consensus. A few of them are actually pretty dang annoying in their actions right now...I still have seen nothing that creates the impression that they have the actual goal of ruining everything for everybody. Members speaking up is definetly needed. But, I can't hate because the help and support. The fund raising for the fight is there...It's very very obvious. They may not be perfect but, they enable the conversation. And provide info on where to try and help.

    No one is holding a gun to anyones head. There has to be lawyers. Someone is a SCOUNDREL simply because they are a lawyer. that has got to be one of the most rediculous points you have ever tried to make Victor. The anti mining side is well monied with taxpayer money. They have more lawyers than you can shake a stick at. The one who gets retained often for these issues has helped out as much as any lawyer could really. There has been a lot of positive movement over the last two years because of him. I gaurantee Brandon doesn't thing he is a SCOUNDREL. Your opinion of any lawyer is obviously very low. You are projecting your own disatisfaction with others lifestyle on the situation. I still can not wrap my head around it. Seems more and more that when no one but, you are out digging will you ever find what you are looking for.. I hope you never find it........

    As far as clubs/orginzations not educating....or working on improving methods....these comments are based on your opinion and so far off base its rediculous. If it really bugged you so much you would do your part to make it better. Instead of bashing people you don't know and refuse to even hear the opinions or experiences of. It was very obvious to me from your very first posts on this forum where you stood....and that is ALONE and ready to bash and insult anyone who doesn't fit your vision. The only reason you commented on this thread is to get yet another chance to be condescending and insulting to people who simply have a different way of doing things.
    Last edited by Goldwasher; May 17, 2016 at 10:23 AM.

  13. #43
    us
    This isn't a hobby! It's hard work!

    Feb 2013
    Golden Valley Arid-Zona
    Fisher / Gold Bug AND the MK-VII eyeballs
    3,465
    6155 times
    Prospecting/Mining and protecting our rights to do so.
    I've got to stand with GW on many of his points. With the rare exceptions, most small scale prospectors and miners enjoy sharing their knowledge with those just starting out. Someone was kind enough to help me out waaayyy back when (today it feels like when Moses was in knee-pants) and to keep the lessons I've learned to myself would be a very poor way to pay those friends back.

    When it comes to clubs, you have to remember that they're not all created equally! You've got all different types and methods of management that vary from club to club. I really think that Jan and I lucked out to have the Mohave Prospectors Assoc. so close to us. Great group of people and a very dynamic membership. We have a lot of seasonal members (Spell that "SnowBirds") but a good number of locals as well. There's always a mind or two around to pick for ideas on how to tackle those problems that pop up from time to time while mining. The group has formed a "Claims Location Committee" to research and locate new ground for the club to file on. We've started getting classes on how to do proper due dilligence, map reading/land navigation, and how to get the most from your gear set up and ready to go. So all in all I'd have to rate MPA as one of the better clubs out there.
    http://www.mylandmatters.org/
    The one stop place for mining matters on public lands!

    "Those that make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" John F. Kennedy

    When I joined the Army I took an oath to protect this country from enemies both foreign and domestic. To the best of my knowledge I've never been relieved of that oath and will continue to follow it to the best of my ability.

  14. #44
    us
    Mad Marshall

    Nov 2012
    na
    937
    1632 times
    Prospecting
    I just read some of my earlier posts. I could only find as far back Dec 2012. Talk about foolish. Kind of interesting to see the contrast in my attitude from then to now.. You know deep down I wish I could share everything, I really enjoyed makin the crappy vids. Lots have changed over the years I suppose.
    But regardless of how I got here its who I am and I am thankful I do not stand alone just one of the more outspoken I suppose.
    I do not agree with most of what you write. Most exspeacilly in regards to clubs. But I see no reason to reiterate my opinions..

    Anyway let me end with this...
    Not a flake not a nugget

    Not a frogleg.. But a sign from above... V for Victory..

  15. #45
    us
    Gold Tramp

    Dec 2012
    1,031
    1943 times
    Right on Marshall,
    fulltime is a lonley place to be.


    GT.......................
    Aufisher likes this.

 

 
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