When out searching for gold, how many of you are conscious of your impact on the Environment? What are some techniques you use to reduce this impact?
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Ecological/Environmental Impact: What do you do to limit your impact?
- Thread starter Rocksy34
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Capt Nemo
Bronze Member
Too bad it dosen't degrade WHEN the wackos are using it!
gold tramp
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gone mining
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- Thread starter
- #23
Well your post is one of my favorites!
- Thread starter
- #24
It would be rare to find anyone using these ropes to climb. I think people who use ropes like these for various outdoor tasks are responsible and therefore not wacko.
Capt Nemo
Bronze Member
Awww.... That's no fun!
Watching anti-mining tree huggin cliff dwellers go splat when their biodegradeable ropes degrade....Now that's PRICELESS!!!
A fool and his rope are soon parted!
Watching anti-mining tree huggin cliff dwellers go splat when their biodegradeable ropes degrade....Now that's PRICELESS!!!
A fool and his rope are soon parted!
Mad Machinist
Silver Member
I do very little to reduce MY impact on the environment, mainly because I don't make a mess to begin with. I exercise due diligence in my research and only pick areas with the most potential. Then and only then do I go in either on foot or as close as possible with a vehicle when possible, and take samples. AFTER the samples are tested, I then decide if it is worthwhile to move equipment into the area. I am considering a Shaw back pack drill and a side by side to reduce the need to take a full size rig into the area.
Although I do little to reduce my impact, I do a hell of a lot to reduce others impacts. Trash annoys me, so do people who don't fill in their holes. Those things annoy me almost as much as holier than thou eco freaks who like to drive up to a drill site in their Cadillac Escalades to tell me how much I am destroying the environment.
Using what was done in the past, when we didn't understand the impacts, as a means to dictate the future of mining is disingenuous at best. With the recycling of most substances used in mining, as both a reduction in impacts and as a cost saving measure, more and more deposits are becoming mineable, hence the claim that mining is destroying toe environment.
And as Clay said, without mining, the current crop of eco freaks would not exist as they would still be using a telegraph to communicate.
Although I do little to reduce my impact, I do a hell of a lot to reduce others impacts. Trash annoys me, so do people who don't fill in their holes. Those things annoy me almost as much as holier than thou eco freaks who like to drive up to a drill site in their Cadillac Escalades to tell me how much I am destroying the environment.
Using what was done in the past, when we didn't understand the impacts, as a means to dictate the future of mining is disingenuous at best. With the recycling of most substances used in mining, as both a reduction in impacts and as a cost saving measure, more and more deposits are becoming mineable, hence the claim that mining is destroying toe environment.
And as Clay said, without mining, the current crop of eco freaks would not exist as they would still be using a telegraph to communicate.
KevinInColorado
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MM, sorry, no telegraph since that uses metals. They'd be using smoke signals 
Asmbandits
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Just about all signs of any digging by small scale miners below the high water mark in a steam or river are completely un done by mother nature during seasonal high water flow. The natural environment yearly is responsible for more erosion than an army of small scale miners can produce. In essence a miner is only doing what mother nature already does reguarly, yet the scale is probably something like .001 percent of what would happen during a seasonal flow if that. Overall Environmental impact from a small scale placer miner is practicaly non existent as far as erosion is considered when working below the high water line.
ClaimStake
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perfectly said. that's always been my argument about it.
Rocksy34, Im just curious. What is the reason for this, in my opinion, ridiculous question?
russau
Gold Member
MM, sorry, no telegraph since that uses metals. They'd be using smoke signals
Sorry Kev , no smoke signals ! that uses minerals (flint /steel ) ! they would be using hand signals (flipping the bird ?)
Mad Machinist
Silver Member
MM, sorry, no telegraph since that uses metals. They'd be using smoke signals
Ok, you made me laugh at that one.
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Why would I care about leaving no footprint? That's not the big picture. Leaving a large footprint that people will use for decades is what life is about. Hundreds of people have enjoyed the different footprints that I have made just like this one. It's a well known swimming hole with diving rocks and everything. We made it, pulled the boulders, stacked the rocks and then put flat ones on top for people to lay on. After a few years more people discovered it and it has now become one of the favorite swimming holes for the locals and many others. It's not natural and most swimming holes aren't, we make them, preserve them, pull the boulders, remove the garbage and see the smiles on peoples faces. I've been asked many times how this swimming hole was made and I can honestly say, I have left my footprint for the benefit of everyone. The problem now a days is that the enviro's want people to not leave a footprint - when for thousands of years we the people have done our best to make this world a better place to live. Those nice sandy trails that people walk on are put in by hand. ________________________________
Leaving No footprint = No meaning of your life...
These first 3 pictures I took yesterday at 9am, by noon there were 20 people swimming in 2 of the swimming holes.
In the beginning it was just a boulder bound stretch of river but when we were done it was 12 feet deep and a football field long
In the beginning it was just a river full of rocks, now it serves many people every year and has been a lot of work every year since we opened it up. We took suggestions from others and moved boulders to where they wanted them also. Every year we put in many hours of work to keep it maintained. 3 swimming holes stacked together, all man made and preserved
If you don't want to leave a footprint, then start by not having children...
Leaving No footprint = No meaning of your life...
These first 3 pictures I took yesterday at 9am, by noon there were 20 people swimming in 2 of the swimming holes.
In the beginning it was just a boulder bound stretch of river but when we were done it was 12 feet deep and a football field long
In the beginning it was just a river full of rocks, now it serves many people every year and has been a lot of work every year since we opened it up. We took suggestions from others and moved boulders to where they wanted them also. Every year we put in many hours of work to keep it maintained. 3 swimming holes stacked together, all man made and preserved
If you don't want to leave a footprint, then start by not having children...
Last edited:
Mad Machinist
Silver Member
Rocksy34,
As many here will remember I have a Bachelor's in Environmental Science and am well on my way to finishing my Master's in the same. I can tell you without a doubt that the buzz phrase of "environmental impact" is nothing more than a way for a small group of people to shame the rest of the world into thinking as they do. Plants and animals have a unique ability to adapt to their changing environments and they always will.
Here's a great case in point.
In this part of Arizona we have a MAJOR problem with salt cedar. It was brought in back in the day to help control erosion. Well it has pretty much taken over. The claim was made that the Southwestern Willow Flycatcher COULD NOT survive without the willow trees it was named after and nested in. So a plan was devised to removed the salt cedar in sections and restore the treated areas back to a more natural state with native vegetation. Well along comes the Center for Biological Destruction and files a lawsuit claiming that removing the salt cedar would negatively impact the Flycatcher as it had adapted and was now nesting and surviving in the salt cedar. Keep in mind that this is the same group that has also sued for the destruction of the willows that the Flycatcher "supposedly" could not survive without. So we are stuck in a catch 22 situation where we can do nothing but get sued by an eco freak organization who is more concerned with making money than actually fixing the problems.
Another problem here in the supposedly endangered spike dace and loach minnows. The claim being made is that us crossing the river in our off road vehicles and dredging in the river is killing the minnows. There are many, many problems with that claim. We have more than a few non-native species here in the Frisco. The two main ones are the Flathead Catfish and the other in the Northern Crayfish. The Flathead prefers live bait, like minnows, frogs, and the like. It needs to eat 11 pounds of prey to gain one pound of live weight. So when someone catches a 20 pound flathead here, think of how many minnows, at a weight of a few grams a piece, it had to eat to get to 20 pounds. The Flathead is native to where I grew up in Western PA. I have found everything from turtles to full grown mallard ducks in the stomachs of Flatheads. Hell, we used 12" rainbow trout as bait when fishing for them in Monongahela, Allegheny, and Ohio Rivers for them back there. Amd I have pulled several 100+ pounders back there.
The other problem is the Northern Crayfish, which is a bottom dwelling opportunistic omnivore. It will eat anything it can get it's claws on. Plants, animals, fish eggs, it doesn't matter. It lives under rocks or burrows into the banks. Now considering that it lives under rocks, which by the way is exactly where the loach minnow lays it's eggs, and will eat anything, we end up with a rather serious problem that WILL result in the extinction of the loach minnow. There are many reports on the internet from experienced environmental scientists where this crayfish has been seen catching and eating live fish, Mexican garter snakes, leopard frogs, and a whole host of other things. These crayfish can also walk on land to new areas as long as their gills stay wet so they can breathe. Yet the answer from the various eco freak groups is to shut down access to keep everybody out and that will make things all better.
The crayfish, along with the hellgrammites here are excellent indicator species. They DO NOT tolerate any kind of pollution, whether chemical or sedimentary in nature. The sediment clogs their gills and they cannot breathe. Even with the dredging here and the off road vehicles crossing the river, the crayfish and hellgrammites thrive here. In August of 2013, the Frisco here flooded, hitting over 30,000 cfs. The amount of sediment coming down the river wreaked havoc on the crayfish population here, killing them by the thousands as was seen by the dead ones lining the banks after the water receded. The loach minnow population exploded in 2014, yet no one from the U.S. Fecal Circus or the Bureau of Land Mismanagement would come and document what happened. It went against the whole "humans are the problem thing".
Those just a little North of us here have come up with a novel way to deal with the crayfish population. They have a crawfish festival up in Heber-Overgaard. Crayfish are removed by the thousands and cooked and eaten. If you have never eaten crayfish, you don't know what your missing. The taste is somewhere between lobster and crab. Boil them in some Zataran's, grab some beer and it turns into a hell of a party.
Rotenone, the commonly used fish poison, is not 100% effective against the Flathead. It has no effect what so ever on the crayfish unless it is used in concentrations that would render a water way sterile far beyond the intended area of the treatment. Rotenone does not evenly disperse in the water column either. Deep pools have to be treated manually by people with backpack style sprayers. Both of these species have a habit of moving to "untreated" areas when they detect the rotenone. Whether it is the crayfish crawling under a rock or the flathead moving back into a hole in the bank or behind a large rock where the rotenone moves past without dispersing. All it takes is one pregnant female that the treatment missed and the whole process starts over.
The only "environmental impact" that needs to be really measured in my opinion is that of the lawsuits brought by the various eco freaks and they should be made to pay for basically destroying endangered species under the ESA. Maybe the leaders should also be given an all expenses paid vacation to the tropical island paradise of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. IF they told people the truth, their heads would be on stakes.
So considering that we are only there for short periods and these threats are a 24/7 threat to the local native flora and fauna, I would say our impact doesn't even rate as a blip on the impact meter. Like I said, the "environmental impact" buzz phrase is pretty much to shame people into a specific lifestyle that is pretty much unsustainable.
Enough said, I need some more coffee.
As many here will remember I have a Bachelor's in Environmental Science and am well on my way to finishing my Master's in the same. I can tell you without a doubt that the buzz phrase of "environmental impact" is nothing more than a way for a small group of people to shame the rest of the world into thinking as they do. Plants and animals have a unique ability to adapt to their changing environments and they always will.
Here's a great case in point.
In this part of Arizona we have a MAJOR problem with salt cedar. It was brought in back in the day to help control erosion. Well it has pretty much taken over. The claim was made that the Southwestern Willow Flycatcher COULD NOT survive without the willow trees it was named after and nested in. So a plan was devised to removed the salt cedar in sections and restore the treated areas back to a more natural state with native vegetation. Well along comes the Center for Biological Destruction and files a lawsuit claiming that removing the salt cedar would negatively impact the Flycatcher as it had adapted and was now nesting and surviving in the salt cedar. Keep in mind that this is the same group that has also sued for the destruction of the willows that the Flycatcher "supposedly" could not survive without. So we are stuck in a catch 22 situation where we can do nothing but get sued by an eco freak organization who is more concerned with making money than actually fixing the problems.
Another problem here in the supposedly endangered spike dace and loach minnows. The claim being made is that us crossing the river in our off road vehicles and dredging in the river is killing the minnows. There are many, many problems with that claim. We have more than a few non-native species here in the Frisco. The two main ones are the Flathead Catfish and the other in the Northern Crayfish. The Flathead prefers live bait, like minnows, frogs, and the like. It needs to eat 11 pounds of prey to gain one pound of live weight. So when someone catches a 20 pound flathead here, think of how many minnows, at a weight of a few grams a piece, it had to eat to get to 20 pounds. The Flathead is native to where I grew up in Western PA. I have found everything from turtles to full grown mallard ducks in the stomachs of Flatheads. Hell, we used 12" rainbow trout as bait when fishing for them in Monongahela, Allegheny, and Ohio Rivers for them back there. Amd I have pulled several 100+ pounders back there.
The other problem is the Northern Crayfish, which is a bottom dwelling opportunistic omnivore. It will eat anything it can get it's claws on. Plants, animals, fish eggs, it doesn't matter. It lives under rocks or burrows into the banks. Now considering that it lives under rocks, which by the way is exactly where the loach minnow lays it's eggs, and will eat anything, we end up with a rather serious problem that WILL result in the extinction of the loach minnow. There are many reports on the internet from experienced environmental scientists where this crayfish has been seen catching and eating live fish, Mexican garter snakes, leopard frogs, and a whole host of other things. These crayfish can also walk on land to new areas as long as their gills stay wet so they can breathe. Yet the answer from the various eco freak groups is to shut down access to keep everybody out and that will make things all better.
The crayfish, along with the hellgrammites here are excellent indicator species. They DO NOT tolerate any kind of pollution, whether chemical or sedimentary in nature. The sediment clogs their gills and they cannot breathe. Even with the dredging here and the off road vehicles crossing the river, the crayfish and hellgrammites thrive here. In August of 2013, the Frisco here flooded, hitting over 30,000 cfs. The amount of sediment coming down the river wreaked havoc on the crayfish population here, killing them by the thousands as was seen by the dead ones lining the banks after the water receded. The loach minnow population exploded in 2014, yet no one from the U.S. Fecal Circus or the Bureau of Land Mismanagement would come and document what happened. It went against the whole "humans are the problem thing".
Those just a little North of us here have come up with a novel way to deal with the crayfish population. They have a crawfish festival up in Heber-Overgaard. Crayfish are removed by the thousands and cooked and eaten. If you have never eaten crayfish, you don't know what your missing. The taste is somewhere between lobster and crab. Boil them in some Zataran's, grab some beer and it turns into a hell of a party.
Rotenone, the commonly used fish poison, is not 100% effective against the Flathead. It has no effect what so ever on the crayfish unless it is used in concentrations that would render a water way sterile far beyond the intended area of the treatment. Rotenone does not evenly disperse in the water column either. Deep pools have to be treated manually by people with backpack style sprayers. Both of these species have a habit of moving to "untreated" areas when they detect the rotenone. Whether it is the crayfish crawling under a rock or the flathead moving back into a hole in the bank or behind a large rock where the rotenone moves past without dispersing. All it takes is one pregnant female that the treatment missed and the whole process starts over.
The only "environmental impact" that needs to be really measured in my opinion is that of the lawsuits brought by the various eco freaks and they should be made to pay for basically destroying endangered species under the ESA. Maybe the leaders should also be given an all expenses paid vacation to the tropical island paradise of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. IF they told people the truth, their heads would be on stakes.
So considering that we are only there for short periods and these threats are a 24/7 threat to the local native flora and fauna, I would say our impact doesn't even rate as a blip on the impact meter. Like I said, the "environmental impact" buzz phrase is pretty much to shame people into a specific lifestyle that is pretty much unsustainable.
Enough said, I need some more coffee.
Mad Machinist
Silver Member
Looks like a nice place for the salmon and other fish to rest and hide from predators if you ask me.
Mad Machinist
Silver Member
Rocksy34,
I wanted to get this up before I forgot about it. The last paragraph is what you need to remember when it comes to dealing with pretty much any eco freak organization.
Chilton Ranch Lawsuit
In the appeals process, Amicus briefs were filed by environmental corporations that advocated for the Center for Biological Diversity’s right to lie, defame, misrepresent and practice a reckless disregard for the truth as long as their intentions were to advance their “environmental” agenda. Big names that chimed in with Amicus briefs to OK the Center’s defamatory actions were The Sierra Club, Forest Guardians, Arizona Wildlife Federation and the Maricopa Audubon Society.
The bold and italic are mine.
I wanted to get this up before I forgot about it. The last paragraph is what you need to remember when it comes to dealing with pretty much any eco freak organization.
Chilton Ranch Lawsuit
In the appeals process, Amicus briefs were filed by environmental corporations that advocated for the Center for Biological Diversity’s right to lie, defame, misrepresent and practice a reckless disregard for the truth as long as their intentions were to advance their “environmental” agenda. Big names that chimed in with Amicus briefs to OK the Center’s defamatory actions were The Sierra Club, Forest Guardians, Arizona Wildlife Federation and the Maricopa Audubon Society.
The bold and italic are mine.
Goldwasher
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something makes me think hes not here for a conversation on the subject.....
Goldwasher
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heres some irony on environmental impact....
Considering all us prospectors here in California have thrown our way....Imagine opening a shop in lotus/Coloma.....and having the concern of how the rafting community will/may perceive it.....Considering the hundreds of rubber rafts......the thousands and thousands of people enticed to pay to come "recreate" on the river....the thousands and thousands of gallons of diesel fuel and gasoline used, in the dozens of old less than clean re-purposed 1980's (or earlier) school buses and econoline vans. That take people up to Chili Bar or pick up at Salmon Falls....both trips being uphill down hill and like fifteen road miles away. I would consider the number of boaters funneled into the region to create a major impact. Those rafting companies makes a lot of money and via river permits ( boat trip permits) the county makes revenue. The county has a river rec. dept. They are the ones who do the "river patrol"....the sheriff does too for different reasons.
One of the kayak photographers I met actually works for the waterboard during the week. he's a desk jockey. I had some questions for him he knew nothing about the situation we California prospectors are dealing with.. He also let it slip how undermanned they were in regards to field enforcement staff..PUT THAT IN YOUR METAL NOTEBOOK FELLAS!!!!!
Considering what i'm doing I was worried I would be hassled right away in leasing, and getting my biz. license. However at the county the building dept. and planning and the river parks dept. have been extremely encouraging and helpful. Several people I have had to deal with were kinda excited even.
I do fully expect some know it all hippie cardboard eater to try and call me out at some point. But, the raft company owners and guides and drivers have all been super cool.
I will be putting great effort into education and access to real information. Considering the location of my store and the number of visitors to the area from out of the area I feel that it is important and a great opportunity to spread the word about the positives of small scale mining as well as dispelling some unfortunate myths and out right lies about us.
After all people are coming to a beautiful area to have fun and they are typically coming from places that I consider ruined because of human impact....I want them to be responsible and considerate of the environment that I call home.
Considering all us prospectors here in California have thrown our way....Imagine opening a shop in lotus/Coloma.....and having the concern of how the rafting community will/may perceive it.....Considering the hundreds of rubber rafts......the thousands and thousands of people enticed to pay to come "recreate" on the river....the thousands and thousands of gallons of diesel fuel and gasoline used, in the dozens of old less than clean re-purposed 1980's (or earlier) school buses and econoline vans. That take people up to Chili Bar or pick up at Salmon Falls....both trips being uphill down hill and like fifteen road miles away. I would consider the number of boaters funneled into the region to create a major impact. Those rafting companies makes a lot of money and via river permits ( boat trip permits) the county makes revenue. The county has a river rec. dept. They are the ones who do the "river patrol"....the sheriff does too for different reasons.
One of the kayak photographers I met actually works for the waterboard during the week. he's a desk jockey. I had some questions for him he knew nothing about the situation we California prospectors are dealing with.. He also let it slip how undermanned they were in regards to field enforcement staff..PUT THAT IN YOUR METAL NOTEBOOK FELLAS!!!!!
Considering what i'm doing I was worried I would be hassled right away in leasing, and getting my biz. license. However at the county the building dept. and planning and the river parks dept. have been extremely encouraging and helpful. Several people I have had to deal with were kinda excited even.
I do fully expect some know it all hippie cardboard eater to try and call me out at some point. But, the raft company owners and guides and drivers have all been super cool.
I will be putting great effort into education and access to real information. Considering the location of my store and the number of visitors to the area from out of the area I feel that it is important and a great opportunity to spread the word about the positives of small scale mining as well as dispelling some unfortunate myths and out right lies about us.
After all people are coming to a beautiful area to have fun and they are typically coming from places that I consider ruined because of human impact....I want them to be responsible and considerate of the environment that I call home.
Last edited:
rodoconnor
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Nicely done Reed
Asmbandits
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GW, From what im reading of your last post sounds like you are onto something great with your store, makes sense location wise and its surprising that no one has done this already in that particular area. You would think it to be a no brainier for lots of reasons. Congrats and I wish you much success and look forward to checking it out when its up and running!
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