Ecological/Environmental Impact: What do you do to limit your impact?

Hefty1

Bronze Member
Dec 5, 2010
1,702
1,477
@Rocksy- someone's gotta say, welcome to the forums... don't let the crusty old miners get to ya.:occasion14:

we're all a bit irked.

Crusty...well maybe...I don't remember....Old? That's a whole new thread........WHAT WERE WE TALKIN ABOUT?
 

Mad Machinist

Silver Member
Aug 18, 2010
3,147
4,686
Southeast Arizona
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
The thread is yours.
There's no need to try to explain myself or the intent of the post further.

If your waiting for me to apologize, keep waiting.

Strike 1. Five minutes of research here would have shown you that this subject is a very sore spot for all of us. Normally I wouldn't tell a newbie to search and we are typically newbie friendly around here, but walking into the lion's den and kicking the lion in a sore spot while expecting NOT to get bite is a typical eco freak thing so they can cry foul and get to play the sympathy card.

Strike 2. So you don't personally like large open pit mines? Here's a news flash. I WORK IN ONE OF THOSE LARGE OPEN PIT MINES. Mining puts food on my table and keeps a roof over my family's heads. And I will NEVER again hear my children or grandchildren cry from hunger because a holier than thou eco freak piece of trash decided their right to their beliefs outweighs my right to feed and take care of my family. There are millions of acres of wilderness for them to go get their jollies off, leave my mining areas alone.

Strike 3. Who's the one getting butt hurt now? Didn't get your way so your going to take your bat and ball and go home? Another typical eco freak tactic.

I've spent nearly $100,000 over the past 8 years on an education to fight back against the crap the eco freaks call science. If we were back in the 1600's, they would be burned at the stake for witchcraft. A full 90% of what they tout is 100% pure crap designed to play on people's heart strings.

Head over to the dredging forum and read this thread: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/d...y-removal-project-crosses-another-hurdle.html Our dredges recover 98% plus of the elemental mercury in the rivers. The equipment they pan to use recovers only 95% of the mercury. Yet we are the ones called destructive and polluting the rivers with methyl mercury. Which by the way, forms an unbreakable bond, by any natural means, with the selenium also commonly found in the same rivers so the methyl mercury becomes non-toxic.

The EPA can dump over 3 million gallons of toxic, heavy metal laden water in a river and claim it was okay as there was no impact, yet a mine I was working at spilled a 55 gallon barrel of oil and had a withdrawal order issued that shut them down permanently even though the cleanup process was nearly complete when the EPA decided to grace us with their presence 6 DAYS after it was reported.

You want mitigation? How many portals and shafts have the eco freaks closed? I know how many I have closed. Yet I am the one who gets vilified because I choose to make an honest living instead of paying on people's emotions like a common thief.
 

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Hefty1

Bronze Member
Dec 5, 2010
1,702
1,477
If your waiting for me to apologize, keep waiting.

Strike 1. Five minutes of research here would have shown you that this subject is a very sore spot for all of us. Normally I wouldn't tell a newbie to search and we are typically newbie friendly around here, but walking into the lion's den and kicking the lion in a sore spot while expecting NOT to get bite is a typical eco freak thing so they can cry foul and get to play the sympathy card.

Strike 2. So you don't personally like large open pit mines? Here's a news flash. I WORK IN ONE OF THOSE LARGE OPEN PIT MINES. Mining puts food on my table and keeps a roof over my family's heads. And I will NEVER again hear my children or grandchildren cry from hunger because a holier than thou eco freak piece of trash decided their right to their beliefs outweighs my right to feed and take care of my family. There are millions of acres of wilderness for them to go get their jollies off, leave my mining areas alone.

Strike 3. Who's the one getting butt hurt now? Didn't get your way so your going to take your bat and ball and go home? Another typical eco freak tactic.

I've spent nearly $100,000 over the past 8 years on an education to fight back against the crap the eco freaks call science. If we were back in the 1600's, they would be burned at the stake for witchcraft. A full 90% of what they tout is 100% pure crap designed to play on people's heart strings.

Head over to the dredging forum and read this thread: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/d...y-removal-project-crosses-another-hurdle.html Our dredges recover 98% plus of the elemental mercury in the rivers. The equipment they pan to use recovers only 95% of the mercury. Yet we are the ones called destructive and polluting the rivers with methyl mercury. Which by the way, forms an unbreakable bond, by any natural means, with the selenium also commonly found in the same rivers so the methyl mercury becomes non-toxic.

The EPA can dump over 3 million gallons of toxic, heavy metal laden water in a river and claim it was okay as there was no impact, yet a mine I was working at spilled a 55 gallon barrel of oil and had a withdrawal order issued that shut them down permanently even though the cleanup process was nearly complete when the EPA decided to grace us with their presence 6 DAYS after it was reported.

You want mitigation? How many portals and shafts have the eco freaks closed? I know how many I have closed. Yet I am the one who gets vilified because I choose to make an honest living instead of paying on people's emotions like a common thief.

I Salute you Sir...
 

wtetro

Full Member
Jan 6, 2013
148
141
Aridzona
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Simply put, I was raised to leave things better than I found them. Myself and my girlfriend remove trash, I highbank in the streams and move my highbanker back usually as I go, so my holes fill and I stay below the high water mark when digging out of water. I fill holes with small boulders from tailings...the creeks and washes take care of themselves her in AZ, several times a year. Most of the holes I dig are dug by others too, but AZ monsoon and winters claim the streams and remind me how small I really am. I hate the trash people leave though, really irritating to me and it takes away from why I'm really out there. One more thing, I call others out digging up above the high water mark and uprooting the trees too, there's plenty of boulders to look behind and under
 

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TAKODA

Hero Member
Aug 19, 2008
920
1,046
Alabama
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
When out searching for gold, how many of you are conscious of your impact on the Environment? What are some techniques you use to reduce this impact?


When I drop a deuce out on the hills I scrape some dirt on my leavings . I guess you could call it the CAT technique .
 

Hefty1

Bronze Member
Dec 5, 2010
1,702
1,477
[h=2]They call themselves Philanthropists...
I call it...Tell them what they want to here, pat them on the back, then slowly insert knife when they are not looking.

Philanthropy[/h]

Philanthropy means, etymologically, the love of humanity, in the sense of caring, nourishing, developing, and enhancing what it means to be human.. In this meaning, it involves both the benefactor in their identifying and exercising their values, and the beneficiary in their receipt and benefit from the service or goods provided.

 

wtetro

Full Member
Jan 6, 2013
148
141
Aridzona
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
You know what ya'll...whether you get good, heavy, gold infested cons or not, if you're leaving heavier than you got there, that's doing your part
 

Mad Machinist

Silver Member
Aug 18, 2010
3,147
4,686
Southeast Arizona
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Rocksy34,

You want mitigation on our impacts? Here ya go. This is what happens when we are allowed to do our thing without eco freak interference.

Colowyo & Trapper Mines (CO) Success Story

WHO says mining and wildlife CANNOT co-exist? IF you notice I chose this one first for a few reasons.

Here a few more that the eco freaks won't tell you about.

Reclamation Stories - Metals | Minerals Education Coalition

The small miner with a pick and shovel is considered inconsequential by pretty much everybody. Overall, our impact is nil. We simply cannot move enough material with a pick and shovel or even a dredge to have any affect on anything.

Now for someone like me who had bigger stuff, I have to post reclamation bonds as a guarantee I clean up my mess or those bonds get used pay someone else to do it. IF you really want to see what needs to be mitigated, go take a look through Title 30 of the Code of Federal Regulations and you'll see that we really don't get to run around willy-nilly as is claimed.
 

Mad Machinist

Silver Member
Aug 18, 2010
3,147
4,686
Southeast Arizona
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Read this and tell me why this is wrong on SO MANY levels.

By Marjorie Haun

miners3.jpg
On June 10, Shari Dovale of Redoubt News, posted an article which included photographs of shocking damage done by the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) to a forest road and trails in Northwestern Idaho. Share Dovale confirmed the report, as did the spokesman for the group which took photographs of the damage, the Northwestern Gold Prospectors Association. The details of the story are both perplexing and enraging.
During the first weekend in June, several members of Northwestern Gold Prospectors Association (NWGPA), planned to attend a gathering to prospect some private claims in the Bedrock Gulch and Eagle Creek areas. When the prospectors arrived, Forest Road (FR) 152, which has been used both for foot and motorized traffic, had been blocked with cement barricades and hundreds of felled trees. The photographs show large logs laid crosswise and laterally on the trail, covered with hundreds of large pine branches and sticks, making it both dangerous and impassable. The section of the road along Eagle Creek was also blocked with large logs spanning its entire width, along with sticks, branches and debris, some of which appears to be spilling into the creek.
Bob Lowe, founder and past president of NWGPA, provided background on the U.S. Forest Service actions. According to Lowe, the USFS barricaded the road, which they considered to be a firebreak, because they lacked the funds to repair damage on the road which had occurred due to flooding and erosion. Lowe said, “The road had a couple of small washouts, but was still usable for hikers and people on ATVs. The road was regularly accessed by hunters and ATV clubs who used it for the multiple uses it was meant for.” Mr. Lowe also explained that the USFS blamed the prospectors for “unauthorized” repairs which some ATV clubs had previously made on sections of the road.
The NWGPA has used the roads in question in order to access privately-held claims. Many of the prospectors have simply walked the trails which, according to Bob Lowe, were “level and shaded, and easy to hike for our elderly members.” Abiding by a set of strict rules of conduct, members of the NWGPA have been committed to following proper procedures and abiding by Forest Service rules, as well as respecting the rights of others who use the forest roads. Lowe detailed the history and natural features of the now barricaded road. “The claims in that area have been mined for over 150 years and the trails up there lead to multiple use lands. At the top of the ridge is a game trail that we follow. That has been obliterated.”
miners2.jpg

In digging for answers as to why the barricades were created, Lowe discovered that federal definitions and “procedures” are being used to justify the extreme damage done to the trails by USFS.
The office of Raul Labrador, the U.S. Congressman (R) Idaho, who represents their district, assisted the NWGPA in getting through to the USFS. Kevin Knesek, the Minerals, Geology and Abandoned Mine Lands Program Manager for the USFS Idaho Panhandle division, responded with an email explaining the agency’s rationale for barricading the roads. Despite generally unimpeded access in the past, USFS in the email claims that a “Notice of Intent” (NOI) is now ‘encouraged’ to gain legal access to FR 152. The email states:
The East Fork Eagle Creek area is a popular location for recreational mining/prospecting, and we administer numerous requests each year for utilization of closed Forest Service roads to access claims. Access on closed routes is encouraged to be requested via a Notice of Intent to mine (NOI), which provides the Forest Service a consistent request mechanism, and the claim holder non-discretionary consideration of his/her request.
The email also cites road repairs, for which USFS blames the miners:
In fact, there was even evidence in the Spring [sic] of last year that people were attempting to reconstruct the road in some areas. This reconstruction was not authorized, as there was no approved Plan of Operations and associated NEPA to authorize it.
But it appears that the designation of the road as a “firebreak” is being used as the key justification for the extensive damage caused by the barricades and downed trees. USFS regards “fire management” features to be temporary, thus, requiring them be “reclaimed” after they have served their purpose.
The email continues:
Last summer, due to fire activity in the Eagle Creek area, the Forest Service bulldozed a fire line along what was the lower stretch of Forest Road 152, and widened a non-authorized user-created trail in the area of Bedrock Gulch, which feeds into East Fork Eagle Creek. The Forest Service is obligated to reclaim disturbances associated with fire management, and as a result course woody debris (large logs) were placed over the areas bulldozed and/or widened. Additionally, where possible, the fire line surface was scarified and brought back to a state which would give it a chance to weather more naturally.
NWGPA spokesman, Bob Lowe explained that, historically, the prospectors and the Forest Service had enjoyed a cooperative relationship, but that in recent years it had become less cordial and unpredictable. Baffled and frustrated by the actions of USFS, Lowe explained, “There are a number of people in our local USFS office who I like and respect, but in the last seven years the agency has hired a bunch of interns just to come out and take videos and pictures of our activities. We would see them standing around with their cameras and clipboards, and we started getting complaints of ‘significant surface damage’ being caused by relatively small prospecting efforts. We got complaints about tiny holes left in the ground where someone with a metal detector would dig up a bottle cap. One report was for cutting a few lower branches of a small tree.”
Considering the extremely high standards of care the USFS expects from citizens who enter national forests and use roads and trails for recreation, hunting, and other multiuses, it appears that its own standard for environmental stewardship is abysmal. The photographs provided by members of NWGPA reveal extreme levels of environmental disruption and damage to vegetation, and potential devastation to Eagle Creek. A historic game trail, used by elk, deer and other large mammals, is now a maze of logs and branches dangerous to all but the very smallest animals that inhabit the area. It leaves one perplexed and wondering why the USFS didn’t apply the money, time and manpower used to create environmentally destructive barriers to FR 152, to the road’s repair and maintenance?
Miners1.jpg
Shari Dovale, in her article in Redoubt News, cited Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Clean Water rules, which were almost certainly broken by the USFS in its placement of logs and debris along the edge of Eagle Creek, which appears to be subject to undercutting due to seasonal high water. Dovale summarizes this apparent double standard on the parts of federal agencies with, “…as you can see from the pictures, the Forest Service has intentionally plundered the area next to Eagle Creek, which leads to the Coeur d’Alene River. How is it that they are allowed to get away with this? Will the EPA even blink when it comes to the government’s intentional violations?”





 

russau

Gold Member
May 29, 2005
7,250
6,700
St. Louis, missouri
that , my friends , is a prime example of ABUSE OF POWER that these gubermint agencies utilize in the GREEN attempt to circumvent the laws! And most all of our socalled "representatives" look the other way until being put on the spot!
 

rodoconnor

Bronze Member
Mar 4, 2012
1,419
1,638
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Did the USFS have to submit an EIR? And people wonder why we want them out of Idaho.
 

Mad Machinist

Silver Member
Aug 18, 2010
3,147
4,686
Southeast Arizona
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Ok this is wrong on so many levels, so let's begin.

Let's see, they didn't have the money to repair the road, but they had the money to document the activities of the prospectors by hiring interns? How much did they pay to cut down and move all those trees

The road required a NEPA to fix it? Guess the people never heard of a Categorical Exclusion that is commonly used by the Fecal Circus to close roads or repair them in case of damage.

Since when did "firebreaks" start getting road numbers? And since when did game trails need to be obliterated.? Guess those animals aren't so endangered after all since we can inhibit their travel to certain areas.

Someone needs to educate these people on the 1872 Mining Laws. A NOI is only required when you go mechanized along with a the required bond. The people need sued into oblivion and ridiculed into obscurity.

So to keep a few prospectors out the U.S. Fecal Circus, destroyed many acres of vegetation and also seriously inhabited the local wildlife's ability to move through the area. Wonder of there were any bird's nests in the tress they cut down? And considering the proximity to a stream, I wonder if they cleaned the equipment of oil to prevent any pollution of the stream.

Since this was a "firebreak" and was "recovered" by dropping large trees across it, that will eventually dry out and become a "fire bridge across the fire break" one has to wonder if these people really have any brains. They definitely haven't learn from the millions of acres burned from their past practices.

Yea, that right USFS, I called you both stupid and a sh!t circus. As my Professors told me, if your smart and graduate with honors, you end up working for the big outfits making big money. If your stupid, you end up making menial wages working for the USFS or BLM. And when things like this happen, the stupid really shows through. And by the way, since only certain people can use the forests and with your abysmal management of said forests, I am requesting the return of my tax dollars, with interest, so that we may hire someone that can properly manage said lands.
 

goldenIrishman

Silver Member
Feb 28, 2013
3,465
6,151
Golden Valley Arid-Zona
Detector(s) used
Fisher / Gold Bug AND the MK-VII eyeballs
Primary Interest:
Other
Here they worry about people mining with picks and shovels and then they turn around and do something like this? We all know that pick and shovel operations do not require a NOI, but this seems to me to be an attempt by the forest circus to get NOIs submitted by the local claim owners. IMHO, who ever authorized this action should not only loose their job (lots of luck with that thanks to their union) but should have to pay to put things back the way they were out of their own pocket(s). I'd love to be able to go through the head honchos wallet and check for a Sierra Fund membership card in there. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts you'd find one in there!
 

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