Claim Marker Vandalism - Penalties?

[DaleMyer]

We had 2 claim markers chain sawed at ground level on one of our club claims in the Yosemite area sometime over the winter. Other than CA Penal Code 594 (vandalism) and CA Public Resources Code 3916 (mining claim damage/destruction), both misdemeanors, can anybody point me to a federal charge, hopefully a felony? Trying to get the USFS involved beyond just taking a report and want to help them along if I can provide something that is a felony. I did file a report with the county sheriff but the area is remote and really falls in the USFS wheelhouse as far as whose officers are patrolling the area. I don't wish to be a tease but there is a little more going on with this event that likely raises it beyond some jokers needing firewood but I am not about to post it in public at this time. Any help beyond the codes listed above would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Dale Myer
Recording Secretary
Communications Officer
Website Admin
East Bay Prospectors (Totally unrelated to anything or anybody named East Fork!)
Concord, CA

 

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[Mad Machinist]

Don't know about CA, but here in AZ we are still allowed to LEGALLY shoot them on sight.

Look up CA Penal Code 487 (d) if you can get them to enforce it.

 

[DaleMyer]

Vandals not claim jumpers

Don't know about CA, but here in AZ we are still allowed to LEGALLY shoot them on sight.

Look up CA Penal Code 487 (d) if you can get them to enforce it.

Hi MM, CA Penal Code 487(d) is regarding claim jumpers removing gold, minerals etc. from your claim which is not the case here that we know of anyway. The only thing we have proof of is two destroyed claim markers obviously chain sawed. We have reason to believe it was targeted at us rather than somebody needing firework as stated above. So I'm stuck at Penal Code vandalism or the more obscure Public Resources Code until I find some with more teeth if there is such protection at the federal level. Again, I'm trying to help motivate the local USFS cops.

Thanks!

Dale

 

[hawkeye39]

It probably isn't worth the grief to pursue this matter. Yes it is damn annoying, but it wouldn't be the first claim marker to be destroyed. The USFS isn't going use their resources to pursue this either.

 

[DaleMyer]

Find me a felony!

Agreed Hawk but remember this event went beyond the claim marker damage. It would be unwise to post all the details but it opened an interesting, unrelated to our claim, door that may be helpful to other miners down the road. I spent hundreds of hours fighting SB637 and know the BOHICA feeling about fighting a lost cause on an uphill playing field. I promise you I don't have time to make this a huge deal as I'm still working to make up income lost while traveling to Sacramento last year. (I'm self employed which is handy for taking days off but that doesn't help cash flow.) Bottom line is depending on how things pan out with this event, there could be some fun with the side benefits. I will tell the story some day down the road when we're dredging again.

Thanks!

Dale

 

[winners58]

Penal Code 602? you would have to identify the person doing it, with proof (trail cam, witness?) report it to the sheriff
ask to press charges, at least have him inform them to stop, if they do it again, then its more than just an infraction.

I've seen other states include damaging claim signs as mineral trespass
in Oregon it's fines up to $1250 and 30 days in jail, much more for a second offense
ORS 517.130(2)(c) ORS 517.130 - Mineral trespass - 2015 Oregon Revised Statutes

in Washington its a class C felony http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=78.44.330

 

[DaleMyer]

PC 602

Thanks, one to add to the list! Sadly, still only a misdemeanor. I can't seem to find any federal law covering claim markers. Seems like there should be something that is the same in all states. There is a chance that a local ranger we work with may have leads on a suspect based on a prior incident but he's been out-of-town so that hasn't gone anywhere. Still, with misdemeanor level stuff, it has to be witnessed for a suspect to be cited or arrested. Your Washington link shows exactly what I need here in CA!

 

[russau]

S.S.S is always a last step if the LEOs wont help! BUT Im NOT recommending this to anyone!

 

[jere64ca]

To my knowledge there is no federal law on the subject, the posting requirements for claims is left up to the individual counties, thus no federal rules. The absence of claim markers has no effect to the validity of a claim specifically for this situation, claim jumping is claim jumping even if there are no markers.

This issue in the jurisdiction of the county sheriff for criminal charges or you can peruse it in the civil courts. Of course it will be up to you to prove exactly who done it. If this was in Mariposa County the FS LEO's were kicked out of the county by Sheriff Binnewies for abuse of power/civil rights issues, they are not miner friendly!

 

[goldenIrishman]

To my knowledge there is no federal law on the subject, the posting requirements for claims is left up to the individual counties, thus no federal rules. The absence of claim markers has no effect to the validity of a claim specifically for this situation, claim jumping is claim jumping even if there are no markers.

This issue in the jurisdiction of the county sheriff for criminal charges or you can peruse it in the civil courts. Of course it will be up to you to prove exactly who done it. If this was in Mariposa County the FS LEO's were kicked out of the county by Sheriff Binnewies for abuse of power/civil rights issues, they are not miner friendly!

You it the nail on the head Jere. To the best of my knowledge there is no federal law that covers claim markers because claims are handled by the counties in which they're located. Going to the FS to enforce mining laws is pretty much a major waste of time. They're a surface assets management agency and don't have the authority to enforce mining laws. You might check with the BLM office and see if they can point you in the right direction since mining is in their mandate. (sorta)

Here in AridZona, claims are required to be marked at all corners (or change of direction) and a monument of discovery in place by law. Yet there are many claims out here that have never been properly marked (staked). California doesn't require markers. While counties handle claims in different ways, I think that getting them all on the same page would only be a benefit for everyone.

 

[russau]

SOOOO if and when you do place markers take a picture and jot down the location with your GPS (keep a copy)and then include these pictures with your yearly paper work OR maybe just the initial paper work. Just so you have proof of it being done.

 

[jere64ca]

If there is ever a legal battle over the location/boundaries of a claim the physical markers/posts take precedent, then the written description on the location notice. Why GPS or maps are not used very much for legal boundaries is most likely because the legal process for staking claims very old, before the days of GPS and hand drawn maps were the norm and they can still be used. Apparently, no court, agency or county has seen the need to change the old way of doing things so what we got is what we got. Call me old fashioned but I would just as soon leave it the way it is. New regulations scare me! You think it is bad now,,,,,, "I am from the government and I am here to help."

Take pictures, document anything and everything, it is up to you to protect your investment. Send the pictures to BLM with your paperwork Might be a waste of time, they will most likely get filed in the round file.

CA BLM has included a "suggested form" for your Annual Assessment Work and it includes section "5. The undersigned testifies that on this date of _______ all monuments required by law were erected upon the subject claim"

 

[DaleMyer]

Believe me when I say I'm no cheerleader for the USFS but I was finally contacted by the local FS LEO that covers the area of the claim. Spoke with him for about an hour yesterday evening and learned of other events in the immediate area of our claim. (He has mining experience and he and/or his family have claims.) This guy knew the names of the ranchers and loggers in the area since they are local families for example. Sadly, one of our mining brother's (NOT from our club) was mentioned as a "player" in the greater picture and not in a good light. I guess I was pleasantly surprised that the FS officer was already working problems in the area and he was happy to have info on our vandalism so we can all try to understand how all the pieces might relate to the bigger picture of the area's past issues. My current status is happy with the FS LEO being aware of things beyond our vandalism, knowing he's keeping an eye out for further events and learning about other nearby events that had occurred. None of the other events included claim marker damage yet could be connected. I'm not really expecting that anybody will be charged with a crime this late in the game since there was a long gap between our last outing there and when we discovered the damage this year. Still, it was an eye opener in several ways mainly getting briefed on the other issues near our claim and finding a FS officer that was already working the problems and is from that area so he knows his beat better than the average bear.

 

[jere64ca]

Well, that is refreshing news! You one of the few FS LEO's that knows and respects the law instead of being driven by personal agenda. There are quite a few of the good guys in the FS you just don't hear about them often. Take good care of him and whatever you do, do not let him promote up and out of your area!

 

[Clay Diggins]

If there is ever a legal battle over the location/boundaries of a claim the physical markers/posts take precedent, then the written description on the location notice.

Absolutely correct as stated.

Actually in legal practice the certified County Recording is prima facie evidence of the true location in court and unless that evidence is challenged the monuments and markings on the ground do not come into play. It's only when the legal description on the location notice is unclear or challenged for accuracy the monuments come into play. Just as with prospectors looking for open ground the location notice establishes where the claim can be considered to be found but boots on the ground to see the actual monuments is the final word on where the claim is in fact located.

Why GPS or maps are not used very much for legal boundaries is most likely because the legal process for staking claims very old, before the days of GPS and hand drawn maps were the norm and they can still be used. Apparently, no court, agency or county has seen the need to change the old way of doing things so what we got is what we got. Call me old fashioned but I would just as soon leave it the way it is. New regulations scare me! You think it is bad now,,,,,, "I am from the government and I am here to help."

"No court, agency or county" can change that law. It's found in the Mining Acts themselves. Only Congress could change the legal method of describing a mining claim. States and Mining Districts could add other requirements (and have) but the basic requirement to locate by the PLSS or metes and bounds can not overruled by those States and Mining Districts.

The PLSS system and metes and bounds are more accurate than GPS. Both the PLSS and metes and bounds are tied to local physical permanent objects. Commercial GPS unit locations are are only 98% accurate to 30 foot. Local surveys tied to physical objects can be extremely accurate. GPS coordinates are not a legal land description. The latitude longitude system is much older than the PLSS so actually GPS is less "modern" than the required location system found in the mining acts.

Take pictures, document anything and everything, it is up to you to protect your investment. Send the pictures to BLM with your paperwork Might be a waste of time, they will most likely get filed in the round file.

As I'm sure you know your location notice at the County is the only certifiable record of your claim. That record should be as complete as you can make it. Including photographs or affidavits of witnesses as well as any additional information about the location is permissible. That location notice is your public record of your claim of right.

The BLM only receives a courtesy notice of your location. That legally required filing is not a public record and can not be certified to a court. Include all the same elements of your original County Record of location but don't expect the BLM to get much beyond the quarter section description on the front page. There are several important court cases instructing the BLM to review the entire claims case file when they have a question but they continue to ignore those instructions and rely on the first page.

CA BLM has included a "suggested form" for your Annual Assessment Work and it includes section "5. The undersigned testifies that on this date of _______ all monuments required by law were erected upon the subject claim"

The "suggested form" is most often incorrect. Last year the suggested Annual Assessment Work form for California was rejected by at least one County Recorder for being legally deficient under State law. The BLM offered a suggested form for location notices in Arizona for many years that didn't even meet the basic requirements for a legal location in Arizona. There are many other instances of the BLM offering "forms" that could cause you to lose your claim.

The BLM does not keep legal records of claims and they are not in charge of defining what forms should be used with one exception - the 3830 Small Miners Waiver declaration. The BLM is not your friend, not your lawyer and not a reliable source of information. Add what you wish to their files but as you pointed out they might just round file anything they don't like.

As for monuments being vandalized or destroyed - the cost of replacement put this firmly in the puny misdemeanor category. Without really good evidence of who vandalized the monument and when you are pretty much stuck with replacing the monument and moving on with your life. If the destruction was because of a dispute with another claim owner then you have a civil matter and you can sue in County court and get your costs as long as you have proof that will stand up in court.

Don't sweat the little things. People get killed arguing about a small nugget or where a claim line is. Adding more stress over a club claim that only gets mined intermittently just leads to more stupid media stories pointing out that miners are ignorant and dangerous destroyers of nature. Not true but why give them the chance?

It's a freaking post, get another and move on, this happens to hundreds of claim owners every year. Whether it was a Californicator or an elk that destroyed your post doesn't really matter in the long run. Looking to the feds to get involved in a downed claim post is, in my opinion, a symptom of the attitudes that have lead to the government poking their noses into everything we do. I for one don't want the government federal, state or county to solve my mining problems. Another miner asking for the feds to help enforce the miner's duty to keep their claims marked is just asking for trouble much greater than a missing post. Beware you might just get what you asked for and more.

Heavy Pans

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

I predict that you will get no help from the USFS law enforcement, regardless of the person or group that you think has removed your marker post.

Your best bet is to gather evidence yourself via. trail cameras, then run the story on social media and local news papers (if you really feel this is a big deal due to who is responsible).

 

[russau]

And "if" you cant prove it , DONT do it! Because they will come back and sue the snot out of you for liable! ALWAYS have a witness to the facts !

 

[boogeyman]

What about going old old school on it? Since there's a chainsaw involved cutting your markers off at ground level, drive a landscape screw or piece of 1/4" rod up through the bottom. You're just wanting to make sure your post doesn't rot. Should make it easy for the leos to find a one legged man. This is only being presenting as a recounting of a local historical event. Messing with peoples claims in any way really bothers me.

 

[jere64ca]

Looking to the feds to get involved in a downed claim post is, in my opinion, a symptom of the attitudes that have lead to the government poking their noses into everything we do. I for one don't want the government federal, state or county to solve my mining problems. Another miner asking for the feds to help enforce the miner's duty to keep their claims marked is just asking for trouble much greater than a missing post. Beware you might just get what you asked for and more.

Heavy Pans[/QUOTE]

More government is never a good thing! And thanks for elaborating on the rest of the story!

 

[Gold Maven]

not sure about a claim marker, but it is a Felony to move a Survey pin.