Midwest stream bedrock question

[JHuck]

As part of my growing interest in prospecting, I've been looking at satellite images of local streams in Central Indiana and I came across a remote section of a stream that has 100 or so feet of fissured bedrock that forms one side of the stream bank and it appears to slope down into the bed. I'm thinking the cracks in the rock would be a good place to start above and below the current water line. Is this correct? Luckily this section of stream is navigable so it appears to fall outside of needing to get any landowners' permission.

 

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[JHuck]

Here is another thing to consider when weighing this out, or trying to define laws that are a little grey.....What are the possible consequences?

I also see your point about the laws, I read more on that last night and....You may be right! According to the one link, you have to stay 50 ft or a quarter of the water way from the property. If that link is correct....

I know you are chasing law, I also know what I would have personally done at one time, But I have this thing with private property, whether it be a claim,or whatever. This is what might eventually cause it all to go off limits, By law. When people start pushing "their rights" on a property owner. I personally do not agree, And just out of principle? Would probably fight it or make it real rough on someone throwing that around in the middle of my land if I asked them to leave. If I was in that mood. But on the flip side, I respect property owners and if were confronted, legal or not through a stack of rules and laws, would probably apologize and move on instead of reciting some laws. This also depends on the size of the stream too!

Is it hurting anything? Hell no, and most people would care less! I walked creeks for miles and looking at rocks, arrowheads and whatever, I was only confronted once in a negative way, and after talking and the guy calmed down, he was fine. He was just worried more than anything.

How you treat people when confronted goes a long way too!! Reciting laws? Might not be the way to do it in cases like this.

Then back to...What are the consequences, probably not much, if your peaceful. Worse case is asked to leave.

Anyhow, just my ramblings, law or not, I'm kind of mixed on this subject. They give you more rights to be doing it on private property,without permission, than they do on public? THAT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME!!!!

Not that any of it hurts a thing! I get that....I'm a "Rights" guy too!! But property Rights out weigh, on this stuff in my mind, I feel the owner should have complete say on what goes on, on his land in these cases.

Nitric,
I'm in total alignment with your thinking. I'm more of the type to try to catch flies with honey instead of using vinegar. However I will say I lean a bit more toward asking for forgiveness vs begging for permission. From a law standpoint, there are so many places out west that my family can no longer camp in because the land has become private and restrictions are strictly enforced. On the flip side, if I can access land because the law allows me to, then I want to exercise my rights.

At the end of the day if I was approached by a nearby landowner I would be cordial and communicate openly. I wouldn't start referencing legal rules unless I needed to. Today I'm just hoping to dodge some thunderstorms so my daughter and I can take look at the site.

 

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[Nitric]

Nitric,
I'm in total alignment with your thinking. I'm more of the type to try to catch flies with honey instead of using vinegar. However I will say I lean a bit more toward asking for forgiveness vs begging for permission. From a law standpoint, there are so many places out west that my family can no longer camp in because the land has become private and restrictions are strictly enforced. On the flip side, if I can access land because the law is in my favor, then I went to exercise my rights.


At the end of the day, if I was approached by a nearby landowner I would be cordial and communicate openly. I wouldn't start referencing legal rules unless I needed to. Today I'm just hoping to dodge some thunderstorms so my daughter and I can take look at the site.

Good luck on your hunt!! Maybe you'll find the gold, At one time I read about the ancient river beds in Indiana and are exposed in some of Ohio, even after the glaciers. Those looked like promising areas! I never got to check them out though!! Hopefully the bedrock you are seeing is part of that system(?).

This mentions it briefly, if you have never seen it....

https://igs.indiana.edu/Bedrock/

 

[russau]

YEP ! Asking first is ALWAYS the better way to go! REMEMBER each state has different laws pertaining to this! In Missouri (it is unclear to most owners and the Missouri DNR) and you have to check each owners title as to where his property extends to and it also depends on WHEN they bought it. NOT every owner in Misery is in the same "boat" on this and that's good ole Misery law at work! you just CANT assume anything in Misery! Missouri has had a lot of cattle theft , logging theft equipment theft and Meth labs sooooooo because of this nobody should be surprised if your out on someones land and they show up with their trusty 12 GA. pointed at you and they want to know who the f*** you are and what the f*** are you doing on my property? now the law for where your are and defiantly now where your at at all times.

 

[NW-INDIANA-PROSPECTOR]

Wow, I don't know the laws, but have mixed thoughts on this.......The "passage" type rights? I agree with conceptualizednetherlandr...

I also agree with Hoser Jon(if I read that right) On public land. But on private land? If you were fishing, standing in the water that might be one thing, but to dig around might be another, if a ticked off land owner shows up.

To give an example, the stream in my avatar, I own one side, I can't really say a whole lot, but further up, I own both sides. It cuts through the land quite a ways. If I understand it right? That makes a difference too. I don't care who owns the water, I own the ground under it. I as a land owner could care less what people do as long as they don't destroy anything or leave trash, but there are other people that would be very upset!! And if I lived there that might be a different story. I've seen canoes and jet skis way up in some of the small creeks feeding it when the water is really flowing. Technically, they aren't allowed in there, but who cares they aren't hurting anything...Now that is a whole different state too.....

What I'm getting at? Wouldn't it just be easier to locate the land owner and ask? If you explain what you are doing, they may even help you! Just much easier that way.....This also depends on the size of the stream too!! Just sometimes for what it's worth , it's better to make a friend out of the land owner, than to show a bunch of paper to him if he shows up.

I don't know the laws, I'm just saying what I'm thinking..

I like your attitude...

 

[NW-INDIANA-PROSPECTOR]

Good luck on your hunt!! Maybe you'll find the gold, At one time I read about the ancient river beds in Indiana and are exposed in some of Ohio, even after the glaciers. Those looked like promising areas! I never got to check them out though!! Hopefully the bedrock you are seeing is part of that system(?).

This mentions it briefly, if you have never seen it....

https://igs.indiana.edu/Bedrock/

Cool thing on Indiana...

 

[mu50stang]

I do a lot of dredging in Indiana and as long as you access the water from non private land and its considered navigable you are good to go. I have had a couple of run ins with the DNR and there wasn't much they could do since we did everything the correct way.

 

[Nitric]

Sorry! I just reread the thread..I kind of got carried away in this one!
I'm not against using the streams in any way...I guess what bothers me about some of this stuff.... a lot of places on public land you can't just walk in with a pan and do something harmless without knowing a book of rules or a permit,Have a attorney decipher it, etc.....Just to Pan!!!!

But the laws allow someone to float in on Private land and do it? I have to admit I would too, or would have! But my point is, it just doesn't make sense and the state or federal land should allow it. It's harmless!!! We don't have as much Right to Fed. Or state land as we do someones private land without permission? Not mining or panning, just the idea of the whacky law is what bothered me!
I guess that is what my actual issue was, doesn't really have anything to do with panning or the OP, I just got STUCK on Private Property Rights or their say,which panning is still harmless and would not hurt a thing, and it really had nothing to do with the op's questions........

Ok, no more ramblings, just wanted to be clear that my posts had nothing against panning or the OP...I just got STUCK...on a Private property Right thought and couldn't get off of it! Even though when younger, I was all over everyone elses land in my area exploring. And I'm not a "No trespassing" guy on my own until problems......I enjoy it and glad when other nondestructive people can too,but that's for a different thread...

 

[goldenIrishman]

As stated before... Know the laws and have copies of them with you!

You might try asking the land owners permission to access it through their property. That might work and you'd be able to get your gear into the area much easier. Might even make a new friend at the same time. Ya never know!

 

[hvacker]

Geezz listening to most here no one would dare prospect.

Id say, dig away and if some owner chases you out then go. If an owner shoots you he'll go to jail
in most states excepting Texas. Probably just yell at you or maybe become interested.
Too many people worry about rules me thinks.

 

[enamel7]

Yeah, that makes sense. If he shoots you he'll go to jail. If he kills you then you go to the funeral home. Pure logic. And telling people to ignore laws. You sir are part of the problem, not the solution!

 

[JHuck]

I do a lot of dredging in Indiana and as long as you access the water from non private land and its considered navigable you are good to go. I have had a couple of run ins with the DNR and there wasn't much they could do since we did everything the correct way.

Great to hear because this is my plan. I'd be interested to meet our local DNR officer while prospecting.

 

[JHuck]

Yeah, that makes sense. If he shoots you he'll go to jail. If he kills you then you go to the funeral home. Pure logic. And telling people to ignore laws. You sir are part of the problem, not the solution!

As stated earlier, I will be well within the rules. If someone shows up with a gun I'll politely leave...and return with the Sherrif's Dept.

 

[JHuck]

Cool thing on Indiana...

On our initial scout trip this weekend, I noticed the north side of the bank was eroded rock that was 15' above the current bed. This makes me think this stream has been around a while.

 

[enamel7]

Question. How deep is the water gonna be at the location you're going to? In other words, how are you planning to work it? My response was to the idjit that said big deal if you got shot at and to not worry about regs.

 

[JHuck]

Question. How deep is the water gonna be at the location you're going to? In other words, how are you planning to work it? My response was to the idjit that said big deal if you got shot at and to not worry about regs.

The water varies from 6" to 2-3 deep. Some areas are nothing but solid bedrock while others have salad bowl sized pockets of sand/gravel dug into the rock. One area has a foot or so of material on the bedrock that looks very promising. I need to think about my hose lengths to ensure I can reach the deposits and still have access to deep enough water for the pump.

 

[hvacker]

Yeah, that makes sense. If he shoots you he'll go to jail. If he kills you then you go to the funeral home. Pure logic. And telling people to ignore laws. You sir are part of the problem, not the solution!

In my years I've seen our freedoms and liberties erode away. I have no interest in a solution
that only results in less liberty. Such as more rules.

To paraphrase a Woody Guthrie song. He talked about a sign that said "No Trespassing" on it.
On the other side the sign said nothing, he sang "that sign was made for you and me".

To the tune of "This Land Was Made For You And Me"

 

[Kuntzy]

a river that is 6inches deep is hardly navigable. just sayin

 

[russau]

a river that is 6inches deep is hardly navigable. just sayin

6 inchs or totally dry don't matter when it comes to a labeled "navigable waters" in a state ! It pertains to back when it was labeled as navigable , then it will always be that even if now-a-days its dry!

 

[Goodyguy]

I do a lot of dredging in Indiana and as long as you access the water from non private land and its considered navigable you are good to go. I have had a couple of run ins with the DNR and there wasn't much they could do since we did everything the correct way.

Same here, been dredging all over Indiana for years and only had one run in where I was in the wrong. DNR and the Sheriff was called and the landowner made me do a clean out of my dredge sluice and throw the gold back into the creek.

I had been dredging around a culvert that went under the road and thought the right of way would be public access. Wrong! Not in that county.
According to the sheriff I could have been charged with criminal trespassing and theft and had my vehicle and equipment confiscated, but while waiting for law enforcement to show up I convinced the irate landowner that I had made an honest mistake and would abide with the law. The sheriff asked the landowner if he wanted to press charges and he said he was willing to let it go this time.

Since then I always check first before dredging and get permission when needed.

GG~

 

[hvacker]

Until recently in New Mexico a person could be on any river that ran through any private land.
Some didn't like that rule even though that's the way it had always been.
Now my understanding is the land owners got that changed a year or so ago.

I once lived in a State where there was seemingly no where that wasn't private. Sure there were parks
and such but scarcely any wild lands. Land would be sold into the water and would provide a small place for
public access. That way the State would keep the lake well stocked with fish.

Here, there are many places you could go and not see another person.
But these places are barely habitable for most. Just take plenty of water.