Bad news California

[Clay Diggins]

Rinehart lost the CA Supreme Court appeal:

We conclude the state‘s moratorium is not preempted.
The federal laws Rinehart relies upon reflect a congressional intent to afford prospectors secure possession of, and in some instances title to, the places they mine. But while Congress sought to protect miners‘ real property interests, it did not go further and guarantee to them a right to mine immunized from exercises of the states‘ police powers. We
reverse the Court of Appeal.

You can download the whole decision HERE.

Heavy Pans

 

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[Hoser John]

Schizophrenia is the act of repeating a failed action in exactly the same way and expecting a different positive result. It was dead with the courts press release about a month ago. Onward to San Bernadino where Judge Ochoa will now issue his final ruling since this is out of the way. That giant sucking sound is over $3 million being flushed down the toilet into LAWYERS AND COURTS coffers. No surprises here to say the least unfortunately sic sic sic bloody stinkn' mess when every criminal,pervert and scum of the earth has more rights than a dredger......John

 

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[Capt Nemo]

There are 4 boxes in the American system. The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box.

We're now left with the ammo box!

 

[triple d]

This is why they have lawyers. So they can write laws so they can be bent. To mean anything the goverment wants them to mean. And I think guns are next to go.

 

[Oakview2]

Lets hope that Pacific legal foundation takes this to the US Supreme Court

 

[Underburden]

Supreme court is useless with a 4/4 headcount.

 

[kcm]

There are 4 boxes in the American system. The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box.

We're now left with the ammo box!

Well said, Nemo. Also quite sad.

 

[Tuolumne]

well you sure can have your choices of dredges for sale on craigslist now lol

whats next?

With the persisting drought here in California, it is stressing the rare enough ground worms and any ground movement that can stress the worms is deemed unsustainable to the population, thus all shovels are required to have a blunt ABS plastic edge in order to get your certification from the BLM, county, and then can apply to the water board to make sure it will satisfy the requirements of not affecting the water quality for the People of the state of California. A portion of the proceeds will go back into improving worm habitat. You can now list "maintaing worm habitat" on your assesment work waivers as long as its $100 worth of airation with the certified blunt shovels is done within the calendar year.

Im sure glad I invested in a state of the art metal detector because now I can focus on shooting nuggets....but wait!

The electromagnetic waves are also causing stress to the worm population and deemed inappropriate and also don't forget because the worms were first protected when the states trumped the Fed and regulated the use of Hydro mining out of existence long ago, for this reason, we cannot allow the sympathetic vibrations from any battery operated metal detector unit/device/cell phone/gps/ and any conductive magnet on your pick-ax to be used in any mineral extraction process.....that about covers it...

Don't be upset with the preemptive actions, we are protecting the rights of the worms from the destructive small miners!

But you can apply through the BLM, county, water board, and Forest service for a year long paperwork trail and endless fee schedule, to get yourself some legal to use dousing rods!

These rules are in place until upcoming studies deem the rods unsafe for the magnetic telemetry system of the "mother load flying micron flood gold nat", which only lives for a few days a year but lays its eggs in the holes of the local protected worms. We need to be on the safe side guys Im sure you'll understand "The Peoples" concerns.

 

[jere64ca]

Lets hope that Pacific legal foundation takes this to the US Supreme Court

There have already been conversations and indications that PLF is interested in taking up the case and I found it encouraging that they had an immediate response to the judgment posted on there web page. (within hours) Even if PLF jumps into the fight there is no guarantee that the US Supreme Court will even hear the case. The CEQA case will now resume and this is the is the arena that the environmental aspect will be hashed out. Be prepared for another long "science be dammed" battle. Unfortunately this case will no doubt make it up to the very same California Supreme Court.

 

[bigAUdog]

Let's hope (I know hope is not a plan) that PLF picks up the ball and runs with it. This particular case is an easy win at the U.S. Supreme Court level IMO. I have no doubt whatsoever that the US SC will take a strong look at this case because they will identify with all of the potentially devastating effects this ruling could make throughout all walks of life. The Cali Supreme Justices should be disbarred for ignoring case law after case law and creating their own delusional decision - not based on any rational decisions other than their political views IMO. Yes, political views! They are the top Justices because they are supposed to understand and recognize the importance of being impartial and interrupting the law accordingly. They failed! And now myself and every other small scale mineral miner will pay for their lack of incompetence.

 

[kcm]

ACK! PLEASE don't mention "case law"!! "Case law" is not necessarily "actual law".

Case law is the study of past court cases and how they were judged in the end. If the judge was wrong or if not all of the facts were brought to light, then using that court decision as the basis in deciding other cases would/could be erred. Yet, that seems all the rage nowdays.

The "law makers" are not in the court system, nor are they lawyers. Yet as long as we use "case law" to sway judges, then both judges and even the ever-so-loved stereotypical ambulance chaser can, in effect, make or change law. ...And we wonder how it is our legal system has come to the point it is!

What's nice about written law is that there is one law, and it applies to everyone. The problem with case law is that when you change the clustering of cases, you can, in effect, change the meaning of one case into heading towards another case. It gets pretty intense!! ...And I already know lots of folks are going to scorn me for this view, but this is just EXACTLY how I feel and what I believe.

 

[enamel7]

I'm on the east coast and I'm appalled at how corrupt California's court system has become, just not surprised. As for the state of NC, I can promise you that intrusion on to private property to stop mining is laws are changed will be difficult. Good ole boys don't put up with stupidity. Common saying around here is they better bring more agents than I have bullets! We are still a conservative state so I think we're ok. The lady that took over at Uhwarrie NF started changing the means of getting gold. She said no more shovels, have to use hand tools! Right, show me how to use a shovel without your hands! I've been told the forest agents are just ignoring that directive. They know what she is!

 

[jere64ca]

Let's hope (I know hope is not a plan) that PLF picks up the ball and runs with it. This particular case is an easy win at the U.S. Supreme Court level IMO. I have no doubt whatsoever that the US SC will take a strong look at this case because they will identify with all of the potentially devastating effects this ruling could make throughout all walks of life. The Cali Supreme Justices should be disbarred for ignoring case law after case law and creating their own delusional decision - not based on any rational decisions other than their political views IMO. Yes, political views! They are the top Justices because they are supposed to understand and recognize the importance of being impartial and interrupting the law accordingly. They failed! And now myself and every other small scale mineral miner will pay for their lack of incompetence.

Well said. You are correct that if the case is heard by the US SC our chances are much better there. As of right now the US SC is 4 liberal to 4 conservative so whoever is nominated for the vacant seat is crucial and likely dependent on who the next president will be.

The CA SC based almost there entire decision on the Hydraulic Mining ban and equated that if the state had the authority to ban/regulate Hydraulic mining then it has the authority to ban/regulate dredging. Now the environmental consequence's of dredging pale in comparison to hydraulic mining so now in the CEQA case it will be easy to prove that dredging does no harm so it will be an easy win! ,,,,,, well,,,, if it weren't for the political agenda that is.

 

[bigAUdog]

ACK! PLEASE don't mention "case law"!! "Case law" is not necessarily . "actual law"

What's nice about written law is that there is one law, and it applies to everyone. The problem with case law is that when you change the clustering of cases, you can, in effect, change the meaning of one case into heading towards another case. It gets pretty intense!! ...And I already know lots of folks are going to scorn me for this view, but this is just EXACTLY how I feel and what I believe.

You actually mean there are "Written Laws?" Where can I find such? Just playing...In today societal affairs written laws are pretty much left up to interpretations just like case law. Believe me, I was once a State Trooper for a short period of time and got worn down by judges tossing out infractions - criminal and non-criminal (and many other reasons lol). There is nothing wrong with your stated beliefs! I believe that I've lost all faith and judgement in good enforcement of laws and in those that are supposed to be independent and impartial in passing judgement. Decisions of this magnitude and scope should be accomplished in a more developed (for lack of a better word)...is all I'm suggesting by the use of case law...which drives decision nowadays.

 

[kcm]

Yep, I hear ya' there. I feel for the boys in blue!! ...Not to mention our own fighting forces!!!!! They get given an all-but-impossible task to do, making sure of course that nobody gets hurt. Otherwise there might be a lawsuit. Some woman will scream about how her son was a good little boy - was always at choir practice and hanging out with the neighbors and such. Surely it couldn't have been HER son that killed 3 people point blank! Heaven forbid!! Forget that darn video - they can be fudged!! .....Of course, she neglects to mention that the kid is at the choir harassing them and throwing rotten tomatoes and eggs, and that all the time spent with neighbors is just casing what they have and the best way to get it without getting caught.

Seriously though, the legal system is truly messed up. And the way our laws are, ALL old laws (even bad ones) stay in the books. The bad stuff is left there for us to learn from. However, lawyers and other law-liberals like to twist things around and make factual laws unclear.

We went through a court mess a few years ago. Our young attorney was a church-going man, and just starting a family. I asked him one day how he could be a lawyer and still go to church. I mean, I have an old school book from the University where he graduated from (thanks Goodwill!!), and I was appalled at how it TEACHES law students to twist things out of meaning. The old book did everything except explain that what they're doing is out-and-out lying in court. I must have hit a nerve with him cause it appears he thought about that long and hard. ...I hope that thought follows him, and that he will some day be in a position to help correct the problem.

 

[Oakview2]

Hydraullic mining was never banned, It simply could not face the liability of civil cases for damages. That is what makes this decision even more stupid.

 

[Alex Burke]

Hydraullic mining was never banned, It simply could not face the liability of civil cases for damages. That is what makes this decision even more stupid.

Correct and the sick part to me is there are studies done by forest service and usgs in AK that have shown dredging doesn't do any harm at all to the rivers. I'm guessing this report got considered as evidence. https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-0155-97/fs-0155-97.pdf

 

[jere64ca]

Hydraullic mining was never banned, It simply could not face the liability of civil cases for damages. That is what makes this decision even more stupid.

That is a very true statement and another tidbit of info on the Hydraulic issue,,,, the law went into effect and the mines continued right on working, some for years, until the the civil suits started rolling in. Fact - the civil suits are what stopped Hydraulic mining.

I would welcome a civil suit against the damages done by my dredge!

 

[Clay Diggins]

Commercially profitable hydraulic mining continued in California well into the 1970s.

Here is the current law on hydraulic mining in California:

3981. The business of hydraulic mining may be carried on within the
state wherever and whenever it can be carried on without material
injury to navigable streams or the lands adjacent thereto.

3982. "Hydraulic mining," as used in Section 3981, is mining by
means of the application of water, under pressure, through a nozzle,
against a natural bank.

Heavy Pans

 

[jere64ca]

Commercially profitable hydraulic mining continued in California well into the 1970s.

Here is the current law on hydraulic mining in California:

3981. The business of hydraulic mining may be carried on within the
state wherever and whenever it can be carried on without material
injury to navigable streams or the lands adjacent thereto.

3982. "Hydraulic mining," as used in Section 3981, is mining by
means of the application of water, under pressure, through a nozzle,
against a natural bank.

Heavy Pans

Nice! So, because the CA SC relied so heavily on the Hydraulic Mining regulation should they not have included this part:

"3981. The business of hydraulic mining (replace Hydraulic with Dredging) may be carried on within the state wherever and whenever it can be carried on without material injury to navigable streams or the lands adjacent thereto."

 

[bigAUdog]

I believe the Cali SC opinion/decision was written well before the June 1st arguments. If you listen closely to the dialogue between the Justices and the "Peoples" attorney you can understand my standpoint. Now that we've gotten courts at all levels filled with idealists and advocates who want to shut down "all" forms of mining everywhere - current laws are irrelevant! There was an overwhelmingly amount of precedent in this case to send an impartial group of people - which the Justices obviously are not - in the right direct decision wise. I'm still pretty sick to my stomach over this! I believe this case is good insight to what we can expect from our judiciaries in future resolutions IMO. Sorry to seem so morose on the issue and plight of things.