I fear a fellow prospector may be headed to jail maybe - negigent homicide?.

[Lucky Eddie]

I fear a fellow prospector may be headed to jail maybe - negligent homicide?.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/32518986/fatal-crash-closes-brookton-highway/#page1

UPDATE: Police have today released new details of a crash that claimed the live of a truck driver on Brookton Highway in Kelmscott yesterday.

The 55-year-old man died after his truck was struck by a trailer carrying quad bikes which had disconnected from an oncoming vehicle near Stony Brook Bridge.

Police say the trailer was attached to a caravan which was was being towed by a utility.

The truck driver, who was the only person in the vehicle, was taken to Armadale Hospital but died from his injuries.

Police from the Major Crash squad are investigating.Anyone with information about the crash can contact Crime Stopper on 1800 333 000.

A TV report i saw on tonight's 6 o'clock news showed the tow vehicle to be a Ford F350 Dually, with a 5th wheel caravan, parked on the verge just past the fatal accident and the quad bike trailer has somehow become detached from the back of the 5th wheel caravan & hit the truck head on.

That's probably not an unfamiliar combination for those of you stateside, for a larger tow vehicle to have 2 trailers, behind it however here at least with the exception of prime mover trucks and double 30 tonne trailers running as a B double etc, you just never see this type of combination with domestic pickup trucks etc.

If it is the guy I believe it to be, (I recognized his rig because its similar to my F250) he was headed out to the goldfields to prospect with the cooler spring weather, and the 5th wheel caravan is his accoms while the quads are the prospecting vehicles!.

Guy owns a trucking company and has many heavy healuage trucks and road trains etc as well as the multi combination drivers license to operate same. It would appear he has exploited a loop hole in our traffic laws to set up his F350 to tow 2 trailers by registering t as a prime mover thru his trucking business (no one does this usually coz it costs $5K a year n extra registration/licensing fees). Combined with his Multi trailer Combination Truck drivers license, he has somehow copied the way many in some of the US States that allow it, rig to run 2 trailers in tandem!.

What Major Crash Unit are trying to figure is - firstly how the second trailer which must have either electric or vacuum breakaway trailer brakes, and safety coupling / securing chains, has managed to firstly become detached from the back of the 5th wheel caravan, and secondly why the emergency brakes haven't activated, when it did become detached.

How this guy managed to even get such break away safety brakes to couple to the rear of his 5th wheel caravan i have no idea...

The thing is he MIGHT have got away with it IF it hadn't all gone pear shaped and killed an innocent truck driver headed the opposite direction.

If it turns out as I suspect and he has breached our towing laws... by trying to exploit a loop hole in the laws for long haul road trains - with a small utility vehicle (F350 pickup) then its entirely possible he could see jail time for negligent homicide if its proven the detachment was his fault in some way, or his quad bikes trailer wasn't fully compliant, and he may even lose his trucking company business by having his transport industry haulage licenses all withdrawn/revoked as punishment.

I will be watching this one with interest (because I have often lamented I couldn't tow 2 trailers behind my F250) and had at one point considered trying to exploit this same apparent loophole in the traffic laws.

I suspect the laws probably vary from state to state in the USA when it comes to towing a 2nd trailer behind domestic pickup trucks. I've seen a lot of photos of guys doing so stateside over the years s suspect that it must be legal in at least a proportion of the states?.

Just glad it ain't me!

Whats that old saying? "There but for the Grace of God go I".

One media outlet is reporting the tow vehicle as Dodge but it looked like a F350 dually to me. Pickups ex USA aren't that common on our roads so the media reporting confusion is understandable.I'm hunting online for a photo of the tow vehicle that I saw on the TV news.

https://www.police.wa.gov.au/Media-...853-Kelmscott-Fatal-Crash--Information-Sought

Our Police are also reporting it as a Dodge pickup truck. Hopefully its not who I thought it was then.

 

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[DizzyDigger]

If they can prove he was, indeed negligent in how he had the
2nd trailer connected, then maybe negligent homicide. Odds
are far better he'd be charged with manslaughter.

Totally avoidable tragedy. I've pulled many sets of 28' and
30' double trailers, and that back trailer can get screwy on you
in a hurry if loads are not balanced or unexpected issues arise.

 

[Nitric]

I can't say that I've ever seen a smaller truck pull double trailers in the U.S. I'm sure it happens. With the exception of traffic arrow trailers, I have seen two of those hooked together, but they are pretty small.

Tractor trailers I've seen pulling double and triple, but usually on turn pikes.

I worked for a company that wanted to put a hitch on the back of a car hauler trailer so I could pull one behind it, I refused, and the idea was scrapped. That is the only time I've ever heard of it. Seems like a bad idea to me! If brakes aren't set up right,lose a tire,etc..... there is too much to go wrong!! Even pulling their car hauler was not fun at times, they had the wrong tires on the truck we used to pull it and no trailer brakes most times. That got a little nerve wracking at times, it was all over the place and a nightmare on wet or icy roads.

I don't know the laws that well on trailers, I would guess that is why we carry insurances, if he had a business, then he should be insured pretty well. I don't know how it works in other countries.

I have friend that just went through the same type of accident, but he was hit head on by a utility/welding truck.That swerved into his lane at the last second,My friend was driving a small dump with a trailer and bobcat on back, they hit head on at about 50 60 mph.. Both drivers are still hospitalized and Not sure what the outcome is going to be on that one. Luckily my friend was in the bigger truck, but still isn't looking good, A lot of twisted metal. I can post a pick of the one truck, the other has the name and number on the side and I don't want to post that one.

But here, if a business or neglect, your insurances battle it out for the most part. Unless it's something really odd. If he was Legal, even if he found a loop hole in law? Might be ok. It's hard to say. The guy that hit my wife head on was High as a kite(know for fact, he was bragging later on) They never tested him, and nothing was ever done to him, AT ALL!He was under the influence and drove straight into her lane. I didn't even recognize my own car when I got there. So, it really depends on how the accident is handled, insurances, etc...probably even by state.

In the end, even though its sad, that's why these things are called accidents. No one wants to purposely hurt or kill someone most of the time. We are all just trying to make it through our jobs or the day, no one wants to be a part of either side.

 

[russau]

Laws change as per state! My younger brother pulls his John boat behind his large travel trailer that is pulled by his 3/4 ton pickup with no problems. the total length is one of the determining factors !

 

[releventchair]

Ya ,something went wrong on the last coupler.....
Toy haulers have more appeal to me than a triple cluster.....when multiple modes of transportation are desired,for both having lodging , and being able to haul a gas powered mule too it's nice having the mule out of the weather and out of sight till at camp.

 

[okbasspro]

65 foot is max length in Oklahoma. Has to be 3/4 ton or larger for multiple trailers.

 

[kcm]

I'm starting to see more and more pickups pulling double trailers. Often it's an RV towing a car that's towing a boat, but I've seen worse. Last one I saw, wife and I must have talked for 1/2 hour about how insane it was, as the truck was towing a small (single axle) trailer with 1 ATV on it, while then towing a larger (2 axle) trailer with a heavier load. I don't think the trailers were anywhere near maxing out in weight, but you should NEVER tow a heavier trailer with a lighter trailer. That's purely insane!! ...Add to that all the people talking on cell phones, texting while driving, eating, messing with stereo or A/C system, arguing with kids, gaga'ing over some deer in a field off to the side....all it takes is a split moment for disaster to happen.

I'm very much against banning things outright, but in this case I happen to be all for a full ban. Truckers need additional training in order to haul piggyback - at least last time I heard, they did. But I doubt there is any special test in order to tow two trailers. I can understand people wanting to have their house (RV), their transportation (car or jeep) and their toy(s) (boat or ATV's) with them, but this isn't going to end well. Flat tires are fairly common, braking systems can go out (that happened to me with 1 trailer), gusts of wind can throw the caravan sideways, animals running out into traffic, other crazy drivers, etc, etc, etc. At LEAST make there be special provisions for piggybacking loads, and law enforcement needs to randomly check these vehicles whenever they see one at a gas station, rest area or restaurant, or the like. Make them liable to pull into weigh stations, etc.

About 25 years ago, was working down in Houston and had to go pick up a load, so used my small truck (built by Mitsubishi with Dodge name) to get it using our 16' tandem axle lowboy trailer. I came to a safe stop at an intersection. Unfortunately, a guy to my left only waited for the truck to get past, then cut in behind me right into the trailer. He must not have had insurance as he fled. But how, on a clear and sunny day, can someone NOT see a trailer that is being towed by a truck only half its size??

Accidents happen - that's a given. But again, I'm against piggyback loads, except for truckers.



Oh, another common application is a pickup towing a large camper trailer (probably taxing the truck by itself) that is also towing a boat or a trailer with ATV's. The driver cannot even SEE the darned last trailer!!


My apologies for the rant.

 

[DizzyDigger]

<snip>
I'm very much against banning things outright, but in this case I happen to be all for a full ban. Truckers need
additional training in order to haul piggyback - at least last time I heard, they did. But I doubt there is any special
test in order to tow two trailers.
Accidents happen - that's a given. But again, I'm against piggyback loads, except for truckers.

Had to give up my CDL in 2003 due to medical reasons, but at that time
you had to have a Doubles and Triples endorsement in order to pull either.
A separate written test is required for the endorsement, but not a hands-on
skill test.

Tractor/trailer (Class A) rigs have valves that balance the brake pressure,
and that way all the brakes don't come on at once. Each trailer has it's own
air tank(s) and they are a long ways back from the tractor (air source),
so your compressor has to be operating properly.

Pulling a set of doubles, or worse yet, triples, in a moderate wind can give
a whole new meaning to the term "pucker factor". It's the crack-the-whip
effect that'll get ya, so it takes a very cool hand on the brakes and throttle
to keep it all on the road, not to mention that the trailers need to be loaded
properly. Heavier trailer in front, always.

Agreed...pulling more than one trailer behind a 3/4 pickup is generally a bad
idea..it's just asking for trouble. JMHO, of course.

 

[kcm]

I still have my CDL - just haven't used it in...like...FOREVER!

 

[Lucky Eddie]

I had a HC (Heavy Combination) Trucking License for decades, but recently lost it- due to type 2 diabetes. The blood test I did at the doctors was .01mm/l of sugar over some arbitrary line the Govt transport dept doctors set for correct blood sugar control! As a result of Govt mandated mandatory reporting for doctors (So much for patient doctor confidentiality) the Doc had to report my condition to Dept Transport. I managed to keep the license a couple more years by paying some ~$700 a year to go visit ONCE with a specialist endocrinologist who certified me Ok to keep the license. In the end paying $700 a year for a license I hadn't used in decades was just a waste of $$ so I handed it back in and now can only drive trucks up to 7 tonnes. Of course my F250 (4.5 tonnes) with the boat (3.5 Tonnes) behind is still OK yet I am 8 tonnes doing 60 mph down the highway - if i fell asleep at the wheel and killed someone, its not going to make any difference if you get hit with 60 tonnes of 2 trailer road train or 8 tonnes of F250 & Boat your still going to be equally dead. Strangely the SAME dept transport who think Im not fit to drive a road train any longer manage my 100 tonne ships masters qualification so I can still take a ferry with 100 passengers to sea in a hurricane OK - just don't kill anyone on the highway in a big bad ol truck!
There are some seemingly inequitable rules out there on our roads that seem to be pretty harsh - then you see accidents like this that make you scratch your head and ask WTF?
Here at least to get a MC (Multi combination road train i.e. prime mover & 3 trailers) or HC (Heavy Combination Prine Mover & 2 trailers) license you actually have to pass an practical assessment test in those vehicles + the theory test as well that includes all the fatigue management log books requirements. In order to keep those licenses you have to submit your log books annually to show your actually lawfully engaged in the road freight transport contracting mining, farming etc industry to KEEP the license. If you don't use it, you lose it.
So big rig haulage is very tightly controlled with even tougher tests and theory for carting dangerous goods (explosives).

Yet you can apparently hook up your pickup & 2 trailers on the lowest controlled form of drivers license - and head off into the sunset and kill some innocent just delivering his truck load of frozen chickens!

Here our accident and DUI stats etc show that on average now ~1/3rd of people charged/convicted/stopped in random booze and drug bus stops, shouldn't have been on the road because they were illegal for:-

No drivers license at all.
Suspended Drivers License.
Loss of Licenses for DUI
Loss of License for driving while under influence of illicit drugs (Hooch & Ice being the 2 most common).
Driving on a fake license bought in a back ally in Singapore for $20.
Driving on an international license but having overstated the tourist visa by a year or more, & not bothering to get a local state issued license.
Loss of License for accumulating 12 or more demerit points in a 3 year period.
Loss of License for hooning (doing burnouts / doughnuts or exceeding the posted speed limit by more than 45Kph/25mph).
Unregistered/Unlicensed/Unroadworthy/Uninsured vehicle
Defective vehicle. There was a newspaper report only yesterday of a guy caught driving with a frying pan bolted to his steering column in the place of a steering wheel I kid you not.

Fully 1/3rd of the people you are sharing the road wit have no legal right, qualification, experience, or training to actually be there in control of ANY vehicle!.
I really do fear now every time i head out on the roads. Some of the bad mistakes (people doing illegal U turns at traffic lights for e.g.) have become so common now.
It seems you literally take your life in your hands every time you get behind the wheel.

 

[Nitric]

There are youtube vids of guys driving with vice grips and anything else you can imagine. Your pic above reminds me of those!
At least they had something that kind of resembled a steering wheel. I guess?

I also remembered after my last post I have seen hay wagons going down the road in a train. But that was usually back roads at slower speeds, with a truck following the back. I have seen stuff like that on back roads. Usually farm stuff.

Maybe I just never paid attention, I'll start watching more to see some of the stuff you guys are talking about.

 

[Au dave]

I had a HC (Heavy Combination) Trucking License for decades, but recently lost it- due to type 2 diabetes. The blood test I did at the doctors was .01mm/l of sugar over some arbitrary line the Govt transport dept doctors set for correct blood sugar control! As a result of Govt mandated mandatory reporting for doctors (So much for patient doctor confidentiality) the Doc had to report my condition to Dept Transport. I managed to keep the license a couple more years by paying some ~$700 a year to go visit ONCE with a specialist endocrinologist who certified me Ok to keep the license. In the end paying $700 a year for a license I hadn't used in decades was just a waste of $$ so I handed it back in and now can only drive trucks up to 7 tonnes. Of course my F250 (4.5 tonnes) with the boat (3.5 Tonnes) behind is still OK yet I am 8 tonnes doing 60 mph down the highway - if i fell asleep at the wheel and killed someone, its not going to make any difference if you get hit with 60 tonnes of 2 trailer road train or 8 tonnes of F250 & Boat your still going to be equally dead. Strangely the SAME dept transport who think Im not fit to drive a road train any longer manage my 100 tonne ships masters qualification so I can still take a ferry with 100 passengers to sea in a hurricane OK - just don't kill anyone on the highway in a big bad ol truck!
There are some seemingly inequitable rules out there on our roads that seem to be pretty harsh - then you see accidents like this that make you scratch your head and ask WTF?
Here at least to get a MC (Multi combination road train i.e. prime mover & 3 trailers) or HC (Heavy Combination Prine Mover & 2 trailers) license you actually have to pass an practical assessment test in those vehicles + the theory test as well that includes all the fatigue management log books requirements. In order to keep those licenses you have to submit your log books annually to show your actually lawfully engaged in the road freight transport contracting mining, farming etc industry to KEEP the license. If you don't use it, you lose it.
So big rig haulage is very tightly controlled with even tougher tests and theory for carting dangerous goods (explosives).

Yet you can apparently hook up your pickup & 2 trailers on the lowest controlled form of drivers license - and head off into the sunset and kill some innocent just delivering his truck load of frozen chickens!

Here our accident and DUI stats etc show that on average now ~1/3rd of people charged/convicted/stopped in random booze and drug bus stops, shouldn't have been on the road because they were illegal for:-

No drivers license at all.
Suspended Drivers License.
Loss of Licenses for DUI
Loss of License for driving while under influence of illicit drugs (Hooch & Ice being the 2 most common).
Driving on a fake license bought in a back ally in Singapore for $20.
Driving on an international license but having overstated the tourist visa by a year or more, & not bothering to get a local state issued license.
Loss of License for accumulating 12 or more demerit points in a 3 year period.
Loss of License for hooning (doing burnouts / doughnuts or exceeding the posted speed limit by more than 45Kph/25mph).
Unregistered/Unlicensed/Unroadworthy/Uninsured vehicle
Defective vehicle. There was a newspaper report only yesterday of a guy caught driving with a frying pan bolted to his steering column in the place of a steering wheel I kid you not.

Fully 1/3rd of the people you are sharing the road wit have no legal right, qualification, experience, or training to actually be there in control of ANY vehicle!.
I really do fear now every time i head out on the roads. Some of the bad mistakes (people doing illegal U turns at traffic lights for e.g.) have become so common now.
It seems you literally take your life in your hands every time you get behind the wheel.

I agree with you L.E . its become a dangerous place (the roads) especially interstate drivers that don't have a clue. Quite often I encounter NSW drivers in my area that are totally confused in the use of roundabouts even to the point of driving straight thru without giving way. If roadlaws were common throughout all states/territories in Aus it would ease the amount of road rage/trauma and drop the amount of accident call- outs I attend each year... FYI in Vic you can legally do a U turn at traffic lights...I think its the only state that allows it.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk

 

[kcm]

FYI in Vic you can legally do a U turn at traffic lights...I think its the only state that allows it.

I didn't know that was still allowed ANYWHERE anymore!

...In the small town nearest us (and there's like NOTHING there...except a gas station, a bar, a cafe, hardware store, grocery store and bank. ...Oh, and the post office), anyway, it's not unusual for people to stop in the middle of the street, shut off their vehicles and run into a store for a few minutes. Doesn't matter if there's a ton of parking or not - that's just how they do things. Is pretty NUTS if you ask me!!

 

[Nitric]

I didn't know that was still allowed ANYWHERE anymore!

...In the small town nearest us (and there's like NOTHING there...except a gas station, a bar, a cafe, hardware store, grocery store and bank. ...Oh, and the post office), anyway, it's not unusual for people to stop in the middle of the street, shut off their vehicles and run into a store for a few minutes. Doesn't matter if there's a ton of parking or not - that's just how they do things. Is pretty NUTS if you ask me!!

You can make U turns at traffic lights around here. But it's usually with an arrow. Not all though.

Another thing that is so strange to me, is the on coming traffic has the right of way for a turn. So, if your wanting to turn right, the guy in the opposite lane has the right away. The opposite of the laws in OHIO. It's hard for me to get use to.

 

[kcm]

That IS weird!!

 

[Lucky Eddie]

My eldest lad who has all the licenses you can have including triple road trains and explosive goods etc - was telling me only yesterday that out in out wheat belt area he regularly sees the local rural agents (Elders & Landmark) using a small 3\4 tonne pickup truck (that we call a utility vehicle) to tow TWO grain augurs in tandem at 100kph on the highways out to farms!
These things have wheels on them to transport around the farm, BUT they atent licensed for the roads highways - they have no brakes or brake lights and turn signals etc... they are agricultural machinery for farm use... yet they hook them up in tandem (so in effect 2 unlicensed trailers one behind the other in tandem road train fashion - not unlike the described accident above) and tow them all over the rural areas, between farms for shifting grain out of Silos into road trains for cartage to port for export - at 60 miles an hour!.

It has to make you stop and wonder how the local Police allow them to get away with it, hen they have never been inspected by any engineer for roadworthy... and have non of the lights etc, heck some don;t even have mudguards - which I guess is no biggee unless your a motorcycle rider and a stone flicked up off a tyre blinds you!.

Here in the city if you even have a crack in your tail light lens they will stop you and defect your vehicle.

It's as tho, all semblance of law and order is breaking down, every where you look.

 

[kcm]

In the old days, miners were allowed to do what they pleased in order to get the gold - this led to hydraulic mining, flagrant use of mercury, etc. And this was allowed, until people spoke up and created change.

MDers were allowed to detect and dig in any parks and other public land they wanted many years ago. But thanks to people who dug improper holes, didn't fill holes, and trespassed, etc, people spoke up until the system changed.

What's happening there will continue, until people choose to speak up and create the change.

There IS a moral to the story, however: Be careful what you wish for.....you might just get it! In "most" cases, things still turn out better than before - maybe not as outstandingly free as before, but better all-around...kinda like comparing life and laws now to what total anarchy would be like.

The law will begin to see those violations and the violators once someone gets hurt. Before that happens, maybe some folks will speak up and get the farmers to do things that are more akin to being responsible, over just hauling ass and not giving a rip about laws or safety.


NOTE: Yes, am quite tired now. Internet has been out most of the day, so playing catch-up now. I hope the above makes SOME amount of actual sense!

 

[Lucky Eddie]

An update now that the law has had time to work out what to do about this accident!.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/33233023/charges-over-loose-trailer-fatality-in-wa/#page1

WA Police have charged a 44-year-old over a fatal accident in which a trailer loaded with quad bikes disconnected and smashed into a truck, killing the driver.

Police major crash investigators charged an Oakford man with dangerous driving.
The man was driving a Dodge utility towing both a caravan and trailer loaded with quadbikes that became unhitched, crossed onto the wrong side of the road and collided heavily with a Hino truck at Kelmscott on Friday, September 2.

I think the charge may be upgraded from just "dangerous driving" to "dangerous driving causing death" - which can at the Magistrate / Judges decision - be upgraded to a sentence of incarceration if proven, and deemed warranted.

 

[kcm]

Thanks for the update Eddie.