tunnel under patented land

[winners58]

so if someone stakes a new 20 acre lode claim next to patent land does that give him the right to work a tunnel 4000'
going under the mountain, it seems like to me there are mines at different levels on other mines as long as they don't cross the apex
of the other workings but now that its a patent claim doesn't the owner of the patent property own to the center of the earth.
it just doesn't sound right, this is on an Oregon forum and I don't know enough about lode mines to give a response.
its about the "Ghost mine" Larry Overman owns the patented land and Corey Shuman of GRE filed a lode claim below it
where the filming took place for the tv show, Larry filed a placer claim on it in 2011 did some leveling and moved the adit closer to his
property line, he says it wasn't really part of crescent mine and didn't need it so didn't keep it up. now GRE has filed a lode claim
on 20 acres naming it the "buckeye" but still being touted as the "Ghost mine" so he can sell it.
whether its legal or not I don't know, it all just doesn't sound very reputable to me,

its Baker county Oregon, 8S 37E sec.27

https://www.facebook.com/OfficialGhostMineowners/
&
GRE- Buckeye Gold Mining Claim for sale.

 

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[jere64ca]

To be sure you would have to look at the original patent to see how it describes the property rights below. I would think that the property rights would be as you described them, straight down but might also include rights along the dip of the vein even if it leaves the plain of the vertical property lines. Typical lode claims give the right to follow a discovery along the dip below ground even outside of the vertical plain of the claim boundaries. Apparently this is what GRE is asserting by making this claim. This may be faulty reasoning for two reasons: first, the patented property owner, I believe, has the rights to all minerals below. and second, to be a valid claim a "valuable discovery" must be made within the claim boundaries. Has GRE made a "valuable discovery" within the claim boundaries on the mined out tunnel surface or was it under the patented property?

I would not take GRE's claim if you paid me. It could cost a huge amount in legal fees to get it straight and it would most likely be a looser.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Corey Sherman and GRE are not miners they are claims mongers. Getting wrapped up in the fine points of mining law when you are dealing with marketing people is just missing the point. GRE makes claims where they can sell them. In the past GRE has made claims on closed lands, private lands and State lands. It doesn't matter where the claim is since it's all about the money - not the minerals.

Once land is patented it's private and no one can mine it but the owners. Lode claim owners and patentees have the same mineral rights. They:

shall have the exclusive right of possession and enjoyment of all the surface included within the lines of their locations, and of all veins, lodes, and ledges throughout their entire depth, the top or apex of which lies inside of such surface-lines extended downward vertically, although such veins, lodes, or ledges may so far depart from a perpendicular in their course downward as to extend outside the vertical side-lines of said surface locations: Provided, That their right of possession to such outside parts of said veins or ledges shall be confined to such portions thereof as lie between vertical planes drawn downward as aforesaid, through the endlines of their locations. so continued in their own direction that such planes will intersect such exterior parts of said veins or ledges: And provided further, That nothing in this section shall authorize the locator or possessor of a vein or lode which extends in its downward course beyond the vertical lines of his claim to enter upon the surface of a claim owned or possessed by another.

It's right there in the 1872 Mining Act and in every lode patent I've ever seen (thousands).

It's foolish for a miner to make a lode claim adjacent to a patented lode unless they are prepared to prove that their required apex exposure is not related to the strike the patent was based on. The extralateral minerals belong to the patent owner and any effort to mine them from another lode claim is mineral trespass.

Tunnel Site claims have no right to mine minerals and any valuable mineral deposits they encounter within the mineralized body of the patent have to be surrendered to the patent owner.

Neither GRE or Corey can claim they have made a discovery on another's lode or patent minerals whether those minerals are outside the laterals of the lode or patent or within the bounds of the senior lode or patent. In either case a prospector can not legally "discover" another man's minerals and then make a location based on that "discovery".

In my opinion claims mongers are thieves. They certainly aren't miners of anything but other people's money. They prey on the gullible and uninformed. GRE is the biggest claims monger in the United States.

So now you know that:

1. Tunnelsite claims have no right to mine valuable minerals.
2. Valid Lode claims and lode patents own the associated minerals wherever they may find them - even when they are outside the long boundaries of the claim.

Heavy Pans

 

[Goldwasher]

I havnt seen anything "reputable" from GRE

 

[goldenIrishman]

I remember some years ago there was a huge dispute in San Diego County between one of the mines and the Pala Tribe. Seems that the mine had worked its way under the tribal lands while following a seam that was very rich in world class tourmaline. I remember that they were finding lots of large stones in a lot of different colors. As they worked the seam, it angled under the tribal lands but they kept following it anyway. When the tribe found out what was going on at the mine it really hit the fan (as well as the news). I don't remember if they ever got things worked out between the mine owner and the tribe. Might be interesting to look that one up some day.

 

[Clay Diggins]

I remember some years ago there was a huge dispute in San Diego County between one of the mines and the Pala Tribe. Seems that the mine had worked its way under the tribal lands while following a seam that was very rich in world class tourmaline. I remember that they were finding lots of large stones in a lot of different colors. As they worked the seam, it angled under the tribal lands but they kept following it anyway. When the tribe found out what was going on at the mine it really hit the fan (as well as the news). I don't remember if they ever got things worked out between the mine owner and the tribe. Might be interesting to look that one up some day.

A well known case. The Stewart mine had followed their vein underneath the Pala reservation. The Pala Indians tried to mine the same deposit as the patented Stewart mine by tunneling into his workings from above.

The owners of the Stewart mine won, got an injuction to stop the Pala peoples mining, and were awarded $35,000 in actual damages and ~ $70,000 in punitive damages.

Mining law wins again.

Heavy Pans

 

[goldenIrishman]

Thank you sir! I couldn't remember the mine name to save my life.