Idaho dredger fine bt EPA

[rodoconnor]

A dredger has agreed to pay a fine of $3600 for violating the Clean Water Act. According to the EPA Robert Rice broke the "law" {rule} , by discharging pollutants into the Clearwater River on July 22 2015. Not much text,but see the Idaho Staesman

 

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[spaghettigold]

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-settles-idaho-gold-miner-clean-water-act-discharge-violation

A POO? Thought i learned here that this is only required for significant disturbances.

 

[Terry Soloman]

AAAWWWWWWWWWWWWW COME ONNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I voted for President Trump, and I am biting at the bit to see regulations from the EPA cut to the bone. Real change can't come soon enough.

 

[spaghettigold]

https://yosemite.epa.gov/r10/water.nsf/npdes+permits/idsuction-gp

Hope for the dredgers there that the gold is in the "allowed streams"

 

[wildminer]

Got 30 days to cram more BS on we the people including a whole herd of Somalis and Syrians.

 

[bcfromfl]

At the time the violation occurred, suction dredge mining in the South Fork of the Clearwater River was prohibited to protect critical habitat for steelhead and bull trout under the Endangered Species Act. In addition, the South Fork of the Clearwater River is impaired under Section 303(d) of the Clean Water Act for sediment. In July, 2015, Mr. Rice operated in the South Fork despite the prohibition in effect at the time.

This guy ignored the rules, and/or took his chances. This is the type of thing that gives gold miners a bad name...during a time when we're trying to fight for legitimate rights.

I don't know this for certain, of course, but I suspect this might be a narrow stream, where a settlement pond would have been appropriate as well. We all need to be vigilant to cross our t's and dot our i's to go beyond what is required...even when permits don't specify additional steps to protect against downstream sedimentation. If this had, in fact, been the circumstances, it's possible that Fish & Wildlife would have noted his attention and perhaps issued a warning instead? Just guessing, of course.

 

[spaghettigold]

well maybe july is spawning season of steelhead and bulltrout and we all remember the pictures of all the dead fish in the rivers , because of downstream sedimentation caused by diver based suction dredging

 

[Jim in Idaho]

At the time the violation occurred, suction dredge mining in the South Fork of the Clearwater River was prohibited to protect critical habitat for steelhead and bull trout under the Endangered Species Act. In addition, the South Fork of the Clearwater River is impaired under Section 303(d) of the Clean Water Act for sediment. In July, 2015, Mr. Rice operated in the South Fork despite the prohibition in effect at the time.

This guy ignored the rules, and/or took his chances. This is the type of thing that gives gold miners a bad name...during a time when we're trying to fight for legitimate rights.

I don't know this for certain, of course, but I suspect this might be a narrow stream, where a settlement pond would have been appropriate as well. We all need to be vigilant to cross our t's and dot our i's to go beyond what is required...even when permits don't specify additional steps to protect against downstream sedimentation. If this had, in fact, been the circumstances, it's possible that Fish & Wildlife would have noted his attention and perhaps issued a warning instead? Just guessing, of course.

It's not a little stream, or narrow...it's a full-fledged river, unless he was WAY upstream, which I doubt. If he was dredging during spawning season for bull trout and salmon he earned his fine.
The Clearwater River, all three forks, is one of the cleanest and clearest rivers in the US...excepting the lower reaches of the Middle Fork. It's also important spawning habitat.
Jim

 

[Underburden]

So only ONE of the dozens of dredgers on the Southfork in July 2015 got caught
Drove by them and saw their flag flying from the guardrails.

 

[jog]

Probably the only one that pled guilty and said yes sir, anything you say sir.

 

[ratled]

So only ONE of the dozens of dredgers on the Southfork in July 2015 got caught
Drove by them and saw their flag flying from the guardrails.

The only one they could ID and he wouldn't give up the rest.....................

ratled

 

[Back-of-the-boat]

I don't see how the river bottom can be considered pollutants the guy wasn't introducing anything into the river that wasn't already there to begin with, although I see the sediment issue also disturbing the spawn.But he was charged wrong by charging him with discharging pollutants.IMO.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Yup, I seem to remember that the Supreme Court said that picking things up from the bottom of a stream or river and dropping them right back in DID NOT constitute a discharge. Then again the EPA doesn't seem to be required to listen to the SC when they don't want to.

 

[rodoconnor]

You bet . I think it was Scalia's opinion . I paraphrase "Putting a ladle into a pot of soup, taking it out and then putting in back in''. Merry Christmas Jeff

 

[Jeff95531]

My very first introduction to dredging was in the 60's. I was just a kid in Warren ID and I asked my Dad where did all these giant stacks of rocks and ponds come from He said that years ago, a thing called a dredge moved all the rocks around while they gathered the gold at the bottom and the result trapped the fish in the ponds, where they did so well, that every pond/lake had brook trout in it. That's why they call them dredge ponds.

And that's bad how

 

[spaghettigold]

well maybe july is spawning season of steelhead and bulltrout and we all remember the pictures of all the dead fish in the rivers , because of downstream sedimentation caused by diver based suction dredging

that was irony pat there are no such pics because it never happend

 

[spaghettigold]

I don't see how the river bottom can be considered pollutants the guy wasn't introducing anything into the river that wasn't already there to begin with, although I see the sediment issue also disturbing the spawn.But he was charged wrong by charging him with discharging pollutants.IMO.

seems they base it on exactly this,they included rocks and sand in the cwa list of pollutants,no matter where it came from or how much it is

 

[goldenIrishman]

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-settles-idaho-gold-miner-clean-water-act-discharge-violation

A POO? Thought i learned here that this is only required for significant disturbances.

By federal law a Plan of Operation is only required when you want to bring in bulldozers or heavy excavators and a reclamation plan is required. Hands and Pans type of operations do not require them at any time no matter how big a hole you dig.* As far as dredging goes, I'm not sure. Since your average suction dredge would take all day to move/process what an excavator can move in a couple of scoops I wouldn't consider that as needing a POO or NOI. Any time you can avoid having to file a NOI or POO you're much better off. Both are CONTRACTS with the grubberment and we know who always ends up on the crappy end of the stick where those are concerned. Ask any of the Native American tribes




* See USFS V Tierney

 

[russau]

goldenirishman , isn't that the truth!!!

 

[NoBudgetMining]

In Idaho you need a POO for anything bigger than a 5" and over 15hp. I run a 14hp 6" and put a 5" ring on the nozzle.