accidental tresspassing questions

blackchipjim

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Dec 25, 2016
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Ok here goes another pilgrim questions about searching for gold. You have a few maps and maybe a gps with other assorted stuff to survive the day of searching for your motherlode. You are hiking exploring and searching and trying to be mindful of your whereabouts and you stop and see an interesting spot to check out. You look around and no stakes or flags so you take a few whacks at the hillside and lo and behold you find a nugget. Is it ok to keep looking or are responsible to make sure your not trespassing, bear in mind it doesn't show any claims or ownership on your map. I'm talking about Arizona and it's trespass laws. Thanks for any and all input.
 

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KandiKlover

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Out here I always check to make complete sure there is no claim or it's someone's property. Matter of respect, I wouldn't like someone doing it to mine so I make sure I don't to anyone else, on the legal side you already shouldn't at all so that's a closed book for me. At the end of the day it's all up to you how you wanna be and different opinions but the answer for me is no.
 

IMAUDIGGER

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Mar 16, 2016
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So the question is...is it my responsibility to make sure I am not trespassing when prospecting, specifically when I discover valuable minerals while doing so?

Well ya - of course you should verify your not snatching up something that does not belong to you. I'm not sure what you mean by no claims shown on "your map".

#1 You need to make sure you are not on private property. Lots of patented mines surrounded by public lands. County Assessor's office is the place to start.
#2 Is the mineral estate part of the public domain? Gov. will many times horse trade land, with the private owner retaining the mineral estate when it is traded to the gov.
#3 Check with County Recorder to see if a claim has been filed recently.
#4 Check with BLM (LR2000) to see if there are any valid mineral claims in your area.

If you have performed these steps, THEN you have enough information to start prospecting.
 

arizau

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If you are not already then make yourself familiar with Welcome to Land Matters. All current claims are highlighted on the Arizona (as well as other states) claims map be they lode or placer and the corner coordinates can be determined when you learn how to use the website.
 

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Bejay

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"Land Matters" is a great tool. But my favorite for Az is the "Footprints Claim Maps" available at many of the retail mining supply shops in Az. Between the two you will NOT be second guessing a thing. These two tools are as important to the prospector as your gold pan or metal detector.

Arizona Revised Statutes 13-1504. Criminal trespass in the first degree; classification A. A person commits criminal trespass in the first degree by knowingly:
4. Entering unlawfully on real property that is subject to a valid mineral claim or lease with the intent to hold, work, take or explore for minerals on the claim or lease.


Bejay
 

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Goldwasher

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if you don't know how to find out if it's ok to be somewhere. Then don't go. Or at least start by going to the places that you know are not private.

Don't go blaming the property owner when you don't know where you are.
 

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goldenIrishman

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People should really take the time to learn how to do proper due diligence if for no other reason than to cover their six when out in the field. Mineral trespass is no laughing matter and can make your life he77 if the claim owner that catches you on their valid claim wants to do so. It's really not all that hard to do and can save you a lot of heartache with just a little time and effort.

Once you've identified an area you'd like to prospect there are a couple of things you need to do BEFORE you put boots on the ground.
1. Go to the County Registrars office and bring your notes with you. You will need the township, range, and section information. Every Registrars office I've ever been in had a public computer in it so John Q. Public can access the records for free. (If you want/need printouts they USUALLY will run you a buck a page or you can use your cellphone camera to take pictures of it off the screen) Check the section for any claims no matter how old they are. Get all the information you can and I'd suggest including the info for all adjoining sections as well.

2. Once you have the information in a usable form (printout, picture or hand written notes) you need to check with the BLM to find out if any of the claims you found are still on their books as valid. There are many claims that have been valid for decades so just because it's old, don't assume it's inactive! One of the best and fastest ways to check this status is on the MyLandMatters.Org web site. Trying to learn how to use the LR2000 on your own is a pain. Clay has streamlined this part of the process to just a few clicks of the mouse. Go to their claims maps page for the state you're operating in and find the same township/range/section. If there are any active claims in it they'll show up there. The data base there is updated every two weeks (BLM willing) so you know it's current.

IMPORTANT THINGS TO REMEMBER.....

The BLM only records claims down to the quarter section(s) so you need the description from the filing with the county to have the correct boundaries of any claims you find

In some areas (Like in California) the BLM is way behind on their paperwork. In some areas as much as three years. You have to pay attention to what the county records show as they are the ones responsible for keeping the claims records.

Many counties have subscription services available for their records. I don't know about other counties but mine runs $55 a month. If you're doing a lot of research or are researching areas from long distance these services can pay off in the long run. If you're 5 minutes away from their offices like I am, it's not really worth the cost.
 

jcazgoldchaser

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"Land Matters" is a great tool. But my favorite for Az is the "Footprints Claim Maps" available at many of the retail mining supply shops in Az. Between the two you will NOT be second guessing a thing. These two tools are as important to the prospector as your gold pan or metal detector.

Arizona Revised Statutes 13-1504. Criminal trespass in the first degree; classification A. A person commits criminal trespass in the first degree by knowingly:
4. Entering unlawfully on real property that is subject to a valid mineral claim or lease with the intent to hold, work, take or explore for minerals on the claim or lease.


Bejay
"Knowingly"
 

Golden_Crab

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Mar 28, 2016
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"Knowingly"

My whole thing is if it's a valid mining claim it should have 4 posts and a discovery monument, or did something change and this just doesn't happen anymore? Now if you crossed private property to get to unclaimed stuff, I don't see how you could get hit with a mineral trespass. Trespassing sure.
 

okbasspro

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My whole thing is if it's a valid mining claim it should have 4 posts and a discovery monument, or did something change and this just doesn't happen anymore? Now if you crossed private property to get to unclaimed stuff, I don't see how you could get hit with a mineral trespass. Trespassing sure.

My claims have all the corner post and discovery monuments plus dozens of signs. But that being said they get tore down and mutilated. 20 Acres is a large area to try and stand and see all 4 corners of a claim the county recorder is your source for the info you need. They will have all the paperwork and with some research you can get the claims located and know where you can and can not dig without getting hassled.
 

Hoser John

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I replace signs all the time and wood posts go into some dogs fire with amazing ease. AZ is definitely a state you should exercise caution in by utilizing the latest possible info from the Recorders office. Lots of luck-John
 

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blackchipjim

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Thanks for the input on this question. I guess to put the question in a different light would help. I drive to point x on my map it is a dry stream bed. I look on the claims map that I printed from a site that listed claims up yonder. I walk past the known and listed claims and maybe wander far away from the claims and look at the rock formations and take a metal detector to scout it out. Does everybody really go through all the research just to walk around the desert?
 

Goldwasher

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My whole thing is if it's a valid mining claim it should have 4 posts and a discovery monument, or did something change and this just doesn't happen anymore? Now if you crossed private property to get to unclaimed stuff, I don't see how you could get hit with a mineral trespass. Trespassing sure.


oh man. Not every State requires corners on all claims. Ca. only requires a monument for placer claims in surveyed areas.

Here's the problem with this train of thought.

If someone isn't going to do something such as look for described boundaries at the county where they have to be recorded,
than how the bloody HECK are they supposed to know where the corners even are, if corners in place are supposed to be the key to preventing high grading????

That's always at the core of this discussion.. the people who are pushing for property owners to post their better, tend to have gotten deep enough to know that THEY are supposed to know where property is before they head out. And are now looking for easy outs in dealing with stealing others property or at last exploring it and 'ACCIDENTALY" stealing something. And want to feel better after they're home with it.

" I looked later and saw it was a claim....oop's , that guy should have marked his corners better"....say's some guy who didn't look first to see if here were claims and sure as heck isn't going to randomly search the terrain for corner markers.

If you are just getting into prospecting be it for gold or if your a rock hound (the majority of claims are not for gold) then you have a lot to learn. Read what I said and believe it. Don't be a high grader. There are VAST open areas to explore and locate a claim on. The research really isn't that hard. Besides all you have to do is come here and ask.
 

Goldwasher

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Thanks for the input on this question. I guess to put the question in a different light would help. I drive to point x on my map it is a dry stream bed. I look on the claims map that I printed from a site that listed claims up yonder. I walk past the known and listed claims and maybe wander far away from the claims and look at the rock formations and take a metal detector to scout it out. Does everybody really go through all the research just to walk around the desert?

If they possess respect and integrity and in many places where you find claims INTELLIGENCE!
 

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blackchipjim

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I'm learning a lot from reading the threads on this site. I'm just trying to have some fun and not do anything wrong or harm anyone's property. I have a lot to learn and need a lot of input from the members here. Thanks for any and all insights you convey.
 

dump_digger

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As an Arizona land owner and Arizona attorney I'll tell you this: all the land in AZ is owned, either privately, State, or federal. Criminal trespass in AZ under your circumstances is a class one misdemeanor. Now, understand that if you're caught and even arrested your chances of actually being prosecuted for said trespass is very low. Whether you pocket the gold and keep searching I think is up to you and your own moral code.
 

okbasspro

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As an Arizona land owner and Arizona attorney I'll tell you this: all the land in AZ is owned, either privately, State, or federal. Criminal trespass in AZ under your circumstances is a class one misdemeanor. Now, understand that if you're caught and even arrested your chances of actually being prosecuted for said trespass is very low. Whether you pocket the gold and keep searching I think is up to you and your own moral code.

Criminal trespass is not Mineral trespass. You are not in someones backyard you are stealing minerals that rightfully belong to them. Ignoring that can will get you a case of lead poising with some people. Just do the Due Diligence and then no worries. It is not hard to do and will save you a lot of headache.
 

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