CA 40 Acre Claim question

[Bodfish Mike]

California : Does a 40 Acre claim need Two people on file to be valid ?
Another words can one person file as a sole owner of a 40,60,80,100,120 and so on acre claim or
is he limited to 20.

Thanks Mike

 

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[Goldwasher]

you have to have a locator for each 20. We just filed on a 23 acre BLM lot and had to have two locators. 40 = 2 60= 3 etc.

 

[Clay Diggins]

A placer claim of any size up to 160 acres can be owned by one entity IF every 10 acres has been proven to be mineral in character AND the claim has been perfected.

Without current existing proof of a valuable mineral exposure that has proven mineral resources which a prudent man could expect to mine at a profit claim owners must be equal to one or more entities for every twenty acres or fraction of 20 acres.

Essentially
20 acres = 1 claimant
40 acres = 2 claimants
40.1 acres = 3 claimants
etc

Perfected claims are few and far between but they do exist. In my opinion every claim owner should strive to perfect their claim before they do any mining. It's the only way to protect your claim from government interference in your ownership.

Heavy Pans

 

[ratled]

OR you can have two 20 acre claims that butt up against each other. Just a matter how much money you want to throw at it

ratled

 

[ratled]

Actually, under the newer O buma rules, the cost is almost the same in filing fees

ratled

 

[winners58]

you have to have a locator for each 20. We just filed on a 23 acre BLM lot and had to have two locators. 40 = 2 60= 3 etc.

on an odd size lot could you say 20 acres by area?, could/would you describe it in aliquot parts; like the west most 20 acres by area of the w 1/4 of the w 1/4 of...
the one I'm looking at is set as a 44 acre government lot i don't want the side of the hill and I don't want to claim 1/2 at 22 acres and pay the extra fees

 

[Goldwasher]

if it is a "lot" you have to claim all of it. the description is. Gov. lot X in Sec X in Twnshp X Range X

 

[winners58]

I have a claim that is the west 1/2 a 36 acre Gov. lot for an 18 acre claim, I had to describe it in aliquot parts.

 

[KevinInColorado]

if it is a "lot" you have to claim all of it. the description is. Gov. lot X in Sec X in Twnshp X Range X

Are you sure? I've seen claims here in CO that were 'the southernmost 20 acres of Lot 22..."
...unless of course that was an invalid claim!

 

[winners58]

sorry for sidetracking your thread Mike,
I thought I knew what I was thinking at the time, Sam at armadillo described a way in another thread to use "by area"
Goldwasher is right about described as complete lots, though they can be less if you have them surveyed, or described as metes and bounds for gulch claims.

Shape and Size: Individual placer mining claims can be no more than 20-acre squares or rectangles that should be described by aliquot part and complete lots using the U. S. Public Land Survey system and its rectangular subdivisions. If a placer claim takes in a portion of a lot, the total claim area must be described by metes and bounds. Each 10-acre aliquot part of a placer mining claim must be mineral-in-character. (43 CFR 3832.21). Land within a placer location must be contiguous

&

The term “complete lots” comes from the definition of lots in the Manual of Surveying Instructions. This is an excerpt of the appropriate section:
“10·200. Lots, whether those (1) on the north and west boundaries of a township, (2) created by segregation and patenting of lode mining claims, (3) created by meandered bodies of water, or (4) created by other special surveys, are a legal subdivision of official surveys. The subdivision of such lots into smaller legal subdivisions requires an official survey. A location certificate description "W 1/2of lot 1" does not conform and cannot be made to conform to the rectangular or legal subdivisions of the PLSS, and an official survey of the land located and claimed is necessary (Holmes Placer, 29 Pub. Lands Dec. 368 (1899)).”
So, based on the above, this is why if a claim takes in only a portion of a lot, the whole claim must be described by metes and bounds.

from BLM H-3830-1 Administration of Mining Claims

 

[Clay Diggins]

By definition a Government lot is not an aliquot part. Second divisions of the survey are either an aliquot part or a government lot.

Either description (Eastern half or Southernmost 20 acres of a lot) will suffice as long as the description is complete, neither of those descriptions is complete. A metes and bounds description is always required if the description is not of a full or fractional surveyed aliquot or whole government lot.

From the 1872 Mining Act:

SEC. 8. That the description of vein or lode claims, upon surveyed lands, shall designate the location of the claim with reference to the lines of the public surveys, but need not conform therewith

Section 10:
all placer mining-claims hereafter located shall conform as near as practicable with the United States system of public land surveys and the rectangular subdivisions of such surveys, and no such location shall include more than twenty acres for each individual claimant, but where such claims cannot be conformed to legal subdivisions, survey and plat shall be made as on unsurveyed lands

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

sorry for sidetracking your thread Mike,
I thought I knew what I was thinking at the time, Sam at armadillo described a way in another thread to use "by area"
Goldwasher is right about described as complete lots, though they can be less if you have them surveyed, or described as metes and bounds for gulch claims.


&

from BLM H-3830-1 Administration of Mining Claims

You beat me to it Winners. Nice Job!

Heavy Pans

 

[Hoser John]

Metes and bounds and/or geological characteristics are also utilized legally in areas of no USGS survey maping as nothing to reference too as in NE 1/4 of the SW 1/2 etc. John

 

[Goldwasher]

yea I quadruple checked the description. So I wouldn't have to change my location info. If it's a numbered lot that is surveyed it is not the only one in that sec. with that number so you just have to put down the lot number and the rest of the description. so instead of the E half of the sw of the sw you just put" Gov. lot "#" then the sec. twnshp, range and meridian. Ours is lot 5. It's 23.4 acres or so. I don't know if you can knock a lot like this down to 10 acres. I wanted all of it anyway. It is adjacent to a claim my partner and I have already (the one I work when it isn't pouring rain). It has the lode crossing its portion of creek and several benches and it doubles our creek length. It also is covered in float from where the lode goes up the ridge and obviously it has gold.
There are a few more "lots " in the drainage a 7 acre on the hill and a 43 acre lot. That one would require three locators. the 7 acre lot is on a hill in the brush. The area is split by two different patents so when they broke up the original survey I guess they formed the lots as they are today.
Here is something for anyone wanting to get a claim or join a club to ponder. Hangtown and I have 20 acres after the first year It costs $37.00 a year in filing/recording fee's including the $10.00 for the smw. This new claim cost around $390.00 (blm and county) to locate the first year. I recorded it with four locators Myself Hangtown and two other members here. They are friends and I trust them totally. So first year split by four less than a hundred bucks each. I you serialize your claims as in Whizbang #1 and Whizbang#2 you save recording fee's at the county. So next year Hangtown and I split the cost for one less than $20.00 each. And the other claim with a one year recording of the notice of intent to hold (only needed first year when you file the AOA)$ 10.00 for its slot on the SMW, will mean that forty bucks or so will be split by four of us. So for Hangtown and I to have access to forty three acres is less than twenty dollars each. We do a lot of work and it is totally worth it.
Pay attention get yourself to this point and you won't feel the need to join clubs or get scammed into buying a claim. Or at least you can do so at your leisure with the knowledge you need to make informed choices. And you will be in the position to not get scammed by claim flippers.

 

[Bodfish Mike]

Thanks for the info gentlemen - Lots learned.

I don't think anyone is checking though as I look up claims I see an 80 with one name listed even a 160 with only two names listed. There is also a 40 I know about near me with two names listed and one of the guys has been deceased for over five years.
So I don't think anyone is checking.
They may be Perfected claims as clay pointed out -- if not would they be valid ? If there are rules you have to play by them right.
One thing I know the spot I want won't be Perfected as I have never Perfected anything.
Mike

 

[goldenmojo]

yea I quadruple checked the description. So I wouldn't have to change my location info. If it's a numbered lot that is surveyed it is the only one in that sec. with that number so you just have to put down the lot number and the rest of the description. so instead of the E half of the sw of the sw you just put" Gov. lot "#" then the sec. twnshp, range and meridian. Ours is lot 5. It's 23.4 acres or so. I don't know if you can knock a lot like this down to 10 acres. I wanted all of it anyway. It is adjacent to a claim my partner and I have already (the one I work when it isn't pouring rain). It has the lode crossing its portion of creek and several benches and it doubles our creek length. It also is covered in float from where the lode goes up the ridge and obviously it has gold.
There are a few more "lots " in the drainage a 7 acre on the hill and a 43 acre lot. That one would require three locators. the 7 acre lot is on a hill in the brush. The area is split by two different patents so when they broke up the original survey I guess they formed the lots as they are today.
Here is something for anyone wanting to get a claim or join a club to ponder. Hangtown and I have 20 acres after the first year It costs $37.00 a year in filing/recording fee's including the $10.00 for the smw. This new claim cost around $390.00 (blm and county) to locate the first year. I recorded it with four locators Myself Hangtown and two other members here. They are friends and I trust them totally. So first year split by four less than a hundred bucks each. I you serialize your claims as in Whizbang #1 and Whizbang#2 you save recording fee's at the county. So next year Hangtown and I split the cost for one less than $20.00 each. And the other claim with a one year recording of the notice of intent to hold (only needed first year when you file the AOA)$ 10.00 for its slot on the SMW, will mean that forty bucks or so will be split by four of us. So for Hangtown and I to have access to forty three acres is less than twenty dollars each. We do a lot of work and it is totally worth it.
Pay attention get yourself to this point and you won't feel the need to join clubs or get scammed into buying a claim. Or at least you can do so at your leisure with the knowledge you need to make informed choices. And you will be in the position to not get scammed by claim flippers.

I would never get involved in a claim with anyone unless it was some one I could really trust.

 

[okbasspro]

Thanks for the info gentlemen - Lots learned.

I don't think anyone is checking though as I look up claims I see an 80 with one name listed even a 160 with only two names listed. There is also a 40 I know about near me with two names listed and one of the guys has been deceased for over five years.
So I don't think anyone is checking.
They may be Perfected claims as clay pointed out -- if not would they be valid ? If there are rules you have to play by them right.
One thing I know the spot I want won't be Perfected as I have never Perfected anything.
Mike

The only thing I have ever perfected is making my wife mad.

 

[Goldwasher]

I would never get involved in a claim with anyone unless it was some one I could really trust.

Thanks Joe. And I should say that the other partners also have access to forty three acres, for less than twenty bucks a year. I'll see you Saturday. I'll be down there tomorrow surveying the carnage. I hope it's as awesome as I expect it to be. The flow coming out of the lake was crazy the other day more than last time.

 

[Goldwasher]

Thanks for the info gentlemen - Lots learned.

I don't think anyone is checking though as I look up claims I see an 80 with one name listed even a 160 with only two names listed. There is also a 40 I know about near me with two names listed and one of the guys has been deceased for over five years.
So I don't think anyone is checking.
They may be Perfected claims as clay pointed out -- if not would they be valid ? If there are rules you have to play by them right.
One thing I know the spot I want won't be Perfected as I have never Perfected anything.
Mike

No one is checking. ( well some of us are) There are probably thousands of invalid claims in California alone.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Oh they DO check, but sometimes it takes them a looong time to get around to it. Case in point: Dateline N. W. Arid Zona.......

One area I was researching happened to have entire sections of land locked up in 1/4 section claims. They had 8 people on the filing and they had claimed up quite a few sections this way. They had claimed 4 of these sections in a cross with the center of the cross left unclaimed. I was interested in the unclaimed center section. During one Clays updates on LandMatters I found a discrepancy between what LM said and what the LR2000 was showing. (Changes by BLM that were not made in time for Clays postings to show them) I started digging through the records with a little guidance from Clay and when I looked at the records in depth I found that 7 of the 8 "partners" had filed Quit Claim Deeds on all of the claims that this "Company" held in the area within 7 months of the filings. I strongly suspected that these were paper claims as I had never been able to find any markers or monuments for any of them. To make a long story short, it took BLM about 15 YEARS to catch up with this guy! He was instructed to cut the area for all of these claims back down to 20 acres. He attempted to do this by just filing the changes with the BLM. After checking with the county, I found that no adjustments to said claims had ever been filed at the county level. Any miner worth his pick and shovel can tell you that this is required by law or the claims are invalid after 90 days of notification. The LR2000 now lists 4 claims of 20 acres (instead of the 160 they had filed on originally) but there is no record of the adjustment at the county that detail out the boundaries of these claims. Due to the lack of filing the changes with the county, all of these claims are now invalid by law.

BTW... While digging through the records I found that the "Company" name had changed 3X over the years and was headquartered in New Jersey. There were so many red flags just in the paperwork I had access to that I began to suspect some one was either trying to lock up the land for themselves of that they were running some kind of scam. (Not that there's EVER been a mining scam in the past! )