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Thread: May 10, 1872 Act conformity of placer claims to the public land surveys.

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  1. #1
    us
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    Post May 10, 1872 Act conformity of placer claims to the public land surveys.

    Topic May 10, 1872 Act:
    Section 2331 of the Revised Statutes(30 U.S.C. 35)provides that all placer-mining claims located after May 10, 1872, shall conform as nearly as practicable with the United States system of public land surveys and the rectangular subdivisions of such surveys, and such locations shall not include more than 20 acres for each individual claimant.
    Conformity of placer claims to the public land surveys.
    (a) All placer-mining claims located after May 10, 1872, shall conform as near as practicable with the United States system of public-land surveys and the rectangular subdivisions of such Surveys, whether the locations are upon Surveyed or unsurveyed lands.
    (b) Conformity to the public-land Surveys and the rectangular subdivisions thereof will not be required where compliance with such requirement would necessitate the placing of the lines there of upon other prior located claims or where the claim is surrounded by prior locations.

  2. #2
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    Brian

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    shall conform as nearly as practicable

  3. #3
    us
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    surveying the public lands

    Bejay pointed out:
    shall conform as nearly as practicable
    The executive duties pertaining to surveying the public lands is vested in the Director, Bureau of Land Management, under the direction of the Secretary of the Interior (R. S. sec. 453; 43 U. S. C. sec. 2) It is proper for the Director, acting under this authority, to specify how surveys shall be made and plats constructed.
    Thanks for your input.

  4. #4
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    So, you indicate the 1/4 section your claim falls in. In most cases that can be found by the GPS coordinates.
    Jim
    Clay Diggins and Bejay like this.

  5. #5
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    Then you have two BLM 'clerks', sitting side by side, looking over location notices.
    One says all you need is the Qtr, Qtr, etc.
    The other clerk says you need Qtr, Qtr, and Meets and Bounds.
    Surveyed lots or not, nobody is on the same page.
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  6. #6
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    I've found that the BLM attitude follows the political climate it manages. Conservative states, fairly easy. Liberal states, pain in the a--.
    Jim
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underburden View Post
    Then you have two BLM 'clerks', sitting side by side, looking over location notices.
    One says all you need is the Qtr, Qtr, etc.
    The other clerk says you need Qtr, Qtr, and Meets and Bounds.
    Surveyed lots or not, nobody is on the same page.

    thats why you go in knowing more than them. It isn't hard even.

    At the state office the guys treat you different when they know you know what your talking about.
    the field office closest to me not so much. So, I just don't go there.

    Seems the people behind the counter in mo0re than one place can be clueless.

    I went to the county to pull a survey. The clerk asked a surveyor to come out and help her with a question. When it was mention that mining claim boundaries were being confirmed based on some survey markers. He told her there aren't really mining claims anymore...I was standing right there or I wouldn't think a county surveyor could say such a thing

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    thats why you go in knowing more than them. It isn't hard even.

    At the state office the guys treat you different when they know you know what your talking about.
    the field office closest to me not so much. So, I just don't go there.

    Seems the people behind the counter in mo0re than one place can be clueless.

    I went to the county to pull a survey. The clerk asked a surveyor to come out and help her with a question. When it was mention that mining claim boundaries were being confirmed based on some survey markers. He told her there aren't really mining claims anymore...I was standing right there or I wouldn't think a county surveyor could say such a thing
    I hope you straightened him out!
    Assembler likes this.
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  9. #9
    us
    Hardrock prospector

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    'Placer deposit of Nature'

    How does a 'Placer deposit of Nature' "Shall conform as nearly as practicable with the United States system of public land surveys and the rectangular subdivisions"?

  10. #10
    us
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    "Metes-and-bounds survey"

    "Metes-and-bounds survey" is the main surveying practice that prevailed in the greater part of the Colonial States, where the land grants were defined by irregular metes-and-bounds, each depending more or less on the description of the adjoining tract, known by name or survey number, and mostly without common geographic location other than by reference to some well-known natural object.

  11. #11
    us
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    "Metes-and-bounds survey"?

    From Chapter VII page 472, section 472 of Manual of Surveying Instructions 1947:
    Metes-and-bounds surveys are required to define the boundaries of irregular tracts which are nonconformable to legal subdivisions. This type of survey ordinarily involves the establishment of the boundaries of claims, grants, or reservations, such as mineral claims, small-holding claims, private-land grants, forest-entry claims, national parks and monuments, Indian reservations, lighthouse reservations, trade and manufacturing sites, homestead claims in Alaska, etc.
    The survey procedure is similar for each type of claim, grant, or reservation having irregular boundaries. Monuments are required at each angle point of the tract boundary, which are given serial numbers beginning with No. 1 at the initial point. This is the only monumentation necessary when the lengths of the boundary courses do not exceed 45 chains.
    Now ask your self how many 'Active Claims' do you see on a "Plat having irregular boundaries and serial numbered monumentation"?
    Last edited by Assembler; Jun 05, 2017 at 05:59 PM.

  12. #12
    Charter Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assembler View Post
    From Chapter VII page 472, section 472 of Manual of Surveying Instructions 1947:


    Now ask your self how many "Active Claims' do you see on a "Plat having irregular boundaries and serial numbered monumentation"?
    Thousands every year. Besides the thousands of metes and bounds placer claims all lode claims are located by metes and bounds.

    You quoted Section 2331 of the Revised Statutes in your original post. The Revised Statutes were never law - they were only "evidence of the laws". The first U.S. Code didn't exist until 1926 and the Revised Statutes were published in 1875. In other words the "law" you quoted in your first post was not law and is outdated by more than a century. There is no way to coordinate the US Code directly with the failed Revised Statutes. Whatever your source for your original post I wouldn't rely on them for information about the law.

    If you want to know what a law says you need to look up the law itself. Here is the text from Section 10 of the actual 1872 Mining Act:
    where said placer-claims shall be upon surveyed lands, and conform to legal subdivisions, no further survey or plat shall be required, and all placer mining-claims hereafter located shall conform as near as practicable with the United States system of public land surveys and the rectangular subdivisions of such surveys, and no such location shall include more than twenty acres for each individual claimant, but where such claims cannot be conformed to legal subdivisions, survey and plat shall be made as on unsurveyed lands
    Being that there are about 300,000 lode claims (all located by metes and bounds) and there are only about 51,000 placer claims (many located by metes and bounds) only about 15% of all claims are located by conforming to the legal subdivisions.

    Heavy Pans
    Last edited by Clay Diggins; Jun 05, 2017 at 02:24 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Diggins View Post
    Thousands every year. Besides the thousands of metes and bounds placer claims all lode claims are located by metes and bounds.

    You quoted Section 2331 of the Revised Statutes in your original post. The Revised Statutes were never law. The first U.S. Code didn't exist until 1926 and the Revised Statutes were published in 1875. In other words the "law" you quoted in your first post was not law and is outdated by more than a century. There is no way to coordinate the US Code directly with the failed Revised Statutes. Whatever your source for your original post I wouldn't rely on them for information about the law.

    If you want to know what a law says you need to look up the law itself. Here is the text from Section 10 of the actual 1872 Mining Act:


    Being that there are about 300,000 lode claims (all located by metes and bounds) and there are only about 51,000 placer claims (many located by metes and bounds) only about 15% of all claims are located by conforming to the legal subdivisions.

    Heavy Pans
    If any of you bothered to read the link in the post: Revised Statutes you would realize why you should not pay attention to what certain people write in their posts. I won't bother quoting you can read it yourself to verify that the link contradicts what was written in the post.

    Oh damn! I can't help but to quote from the link!

    "For nearly nine decades after the Constitution was ratified, those who needed to research federal law had no official codification of laws passed by Congress upon which they could rely. It was only in the 1870s that the first codification of federal statutes was approved by Congress. This predecessor to the U.S. Code, first published in 1875, is known as the Revised Statutes of the United States."

    "The Revised Statutes of 1874 was an official codification of the statutes it included. Section 5596 of the Revised Statutes repealed all prior federal statutes passed before December 1, 1873 that were covered by the revision. Additionally, the act of Congress authorizing the publication of the Revised Statutes of 1874 provided that when enacted, the Revised Statutes of 1874 would constitute “legal evidence of the laws and treaties therein contained.” (ch. 333, 18 Stat. 113)"

    "If you are interested in determining whether and to what extent a provision of federal law originally included in the Revised Statutes may still be in effect today, you can find where sections of the Revised Statutes of 1878 were classified to the U.S. Code by using Table II of the US Code"
    Last edited by chlsbrns; Jun 05, 2017 at 02:13 PM.
    Assembler likes this.

  14. #14
    us
    Hardrock prospector

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    Great input thanks.

    Wow great input both Clay Diggins and chlsbrns, thanks. Will have to do some reading and thinking about both inputs.

    The Code refereed to is from the "CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS (National Archives the the United States 1934)" Title 43 Revised January 1 1964 Subchapter L Part 185 General Mining Regulations. This is refereed to in the Manual of Surveying Instructions as well (1947).
    Metes-and-bounds are required to define the boundaries of irregular tracts which are nonconformable to legal subdivisions.
    This quote is from Chapter VII "SPECIAL SURVEYS AND INSTRUCTIONS" section 472 page 472 of the Manual of Surveying Instructions (1947).
    The Act of March 3, 1925 ( 43 Statute 1144; 43 U.S.C. section 51; Manual, Appendix I), necessitated a detailed revision of the regulations governing the administration of Mineral Surveys, but the field surveying operations remained fixed.
    This quote is from section 670 page 669 of the Manual of Surveying Instructions (1947). The "Mineral Surveyor" has to follow this however there appears to be no "Funding at all from Congress" after around 1996 - 98 or so.
    Last edited by Assembler; Jun 05, 2017 at 03:51 PM.

  15. #15
    us
    Hardrock prospector

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    " Distinguishing Features of the Mineral Survey"

    The following is from section 669 page 669 Chapter X Manual of Surveying Instruction (1947):
    These surveys are made to mark the legal boundaries of mineral deposits or ore bearing formations on the public domain, where the boundaries are to be determined by lines other than the normal subdivision of the public lands.
    The 'Newer Manuals' have this as well just on a different page. Go take a look.
    Last edited by Assembler; Jun 05, 2017 at 04:19 PM. Reason: Opps.

 

 
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