Mariposa Mining District Authority is it real???

[MadMarshall]

From Amra facebook page..


AMRA President Shannon Poe has one of his mining claims illegally top-filed.

A claim AMRA President Shannon Poe (and three others) picked up in 2009 was top-filed by another miner in 2010. This has resulted in a myriad of angry phone calls and is a prime example of how to handle a situation like this.

First of all, whomever files first owns the claim if it was filed correctly. Meaning: a proper location, description, it is on ground open to mineral entry and filing, was recorded properly with the county and has the proper signatures. The claim must be filed timely with the BLM and recorded within 90 days of locating the claim. Our claim is 80 acres and has 4 claimants. As a reminder, you need one signature/locator/claimant for each 20 acres filed so a 20 acre claim only needs one locator/signature, a 160 acre claim needs 8.

This claim has 4 signatures, was properly marked (location date and marker), was properly recorded with the county, filed with BLM and the description of the claim is valid and proper.

So what do you do if someone top-files you like this?

Print copies of every document which pertains to the claims and obtain all copies of taxes (if applicable) paid on the claim to the county from the date of location to the current date.

Write a time line of events. In this case, We typed up a two page time line of the two claims involved from two years prior to our filing the claim to prove there were no other claims over the ground we were filing. We included every document relating to the date of all of the claims filed in that section. We referenced each of the documents as attachments (example: attachment 1 etc...).

Example:
2009
All areas within section 32 of 3S, 12E are open for mineral entry and claims location. The land is administered by USFS (Stanislaus NF). 80 acre placer claim "Golden Nugget" was staked and marked as a discovery on October 9th, 2009 by locator Poe, Seagull, Smith and Decker.

The claim was recorded in Mariposa County October 12th 2009 and the claim was filed with BLM with a proper description on November 9th, 2009. (See attachment 1)

2010:
Claim named "jumper" was filed with BLM on March 23, 2010 over the top of "Golden Nugget" by claimant Wagner. The claim was recorded in Mariposa County March 27, 2010 (see attachment 2). Claim owners Poe, Seagull, Smith and Decker were unaware a claim has been filed over their claim.

Jumper was filed as a 40 acre claim and had one signature/locator/claimant. This invalidates the claim for two reasons, one the claim was top-filed over another validly held, filed and recorded claim. Two, because the claim only has one signature and the claim file does not contain any quit claim where one person was dropped off the claim. The original documents show only one signature.

2014:
Claimant Wagner was witnessed by miner and claim owner Smith posting claim markers on Golden Nugget claiming the claim is "Jumper". Smith informed Wagner the claim is not his and Golden Nugget was filed and owned prior to his claim being filed. He was informed to cease and desist and remove the illegal claim markers. Wagner refused. Smith removed claim markers from the claim. Poe calls Wagner and informs Wagner the claim is not his and to cease and desist. Offers to provide all BLM and county documents proving legal ownership. Wagner refuses and hangs up.

2015, 2016:
No contact with Wagner and no issues reported.

May 2017:
Wagner resurfaces and claims Golden Nugget is his claim and that Jumper is 160 acres and encompasses the entire lower SE section. Makes a statement to mining partner of Poe, Dan Seagull that he is calling the Sheriff and have all parties arrested for claim jumping and trespass. Informs all parties to cease any and all mining operations.

Poe calls Wagner and informs Wagner once again it is not his claim and that Golden Nugget was legally and properly filed the year prior to his locating "Jumper". Asks Wagner to contact BLM and request all documents relating to who filed the claims and when proving ownership and that Golden Nugget was filed the year prior to his claim. Wagner refuses and becomes irrational. Poe informs Wagner he is materially interfering with his mining operation and to again cease and desist with his illegal assertions and activities. Wagner becomes more irrational, calls Poe some names and hangs up.

Today:
We contacted the Mariposa Mining District who has authority over this area and requested a hearing. We have submitted a timeline similar to the one above and have provided all legal documents, descriptions and contact information of all parties.

The Mining District will hold a hearing and make a ruling on the legal ownership of the claim(s) based upon the evidence.

Once this is completed, a copy of this determination (affidavit from the board) will be provided to both parties and to the county Sheriff.

I will be contacting and requesting a meeting with the county Sheriff once the determination is completed. I will provide all the documents and inform the Sheriff it is a civil matter, but that we are the rightful owners of this real property mining claim. If the man continues with materially interfering with my mining operations, legal and criminal charges can be pursued.

Materially interfering with a mining operation is a crime in California, although rarely prosecuted, it is a crime. It is a felony to claim jump in California and to illegally claim someone's claim as your own.

Mining claim disputes are a civil matter. You can't call, and expect BLM to do a thing about this. BLM allowed another person to file a claim over ours, plain and simple and this created this mess. A civil matter meaning it is between the two parties and unless this is remedied with the Mining District holding a hearing, it will then only be resolved in civil court. I spoke with BLM on Tuesday and they admitted to me on the phone, they will take anyone's paperwork, even if it is over the top of another persons claim. Let that sink in for a minute. They will allow anyone to file any claim, no questions asked. Obviously we are going to work hard to change this.

We are fully prepared and willing to take this man to court as it is not a question of "if" we own the claim.

We'll give everyone an update as this case proceeds.
Have a question? Just ask, that is what AMRA is about.

From Mariposa Mining District facebook page
Our meeting went well with the current board being installed for the next term , we adopted a budget and briefed the miners of actions being taken in a current claim dispute


Now I believe that the mining districts Kevin and Robert created are illegitimate.. And I am curious on if these post are just BullSHT.. I do not know both side of the story just what AMRA posted but I do not think That Mariposa Mining District has any authority to make any decisions about jack squat. So I am wondering if maybe someone could help enlighten me.. Am I mistaken to think that any decision and action taken by the Mariposa Mining District is just a joke? or maybe not? I have no doubt that Mariposa Mining district ruled in Favor of their (friends) but I just don't see how they can enforce or set any standards in relating to mining and such in their district..

I get asked from time to time about these districts and I honestly don't believe they have the authority to do anything in regards to anything mining related I tell people as much.. the fact that they go around and hussling miners in believing they are a real Mining District and are legit is criminal in my opinion..

So for instance .. If these jokers decided to create a mining district in my area what actions can I take to protect my mining interests?
What legal action can be taken against these frauds if any?? Are there any laws that protect me from such manipulation and fraud? or am I subject to whatever idiot decides to create BS mining Districts?
How can one protect himself and his mining rights from Frauds Like MMAC KEVIN BELL Robert Guarduola and whoever else decides fake a Mining District?
Ill be gone from Sat to Tuesday.. so I may be late in replying..

 

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[IMAUDIGGER]

Clay

I think you are on the right track with the reference to "dissolved mining districts".
However we do have to stop and think what that means.

I'm under the assumption that the mining districts are defined as legal corporations. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm really going out on a limb here given my limited understanding of the law.

Corporations have to be formed and dissolved in a legal fashion.

A few definitions for thought.

"Corporation"
An artificial person or legal entity by or under the authority of the laws of a state or nation, composed, in some rare instances, of a single person and his successors, being the incumbents of a particular office, but ordinarily consisting of an association of numerous individuals, who subsist as a body politic under a special denomination, which is regarded in law as having a personality and existence distinct from that of it's several members, and which is, by the same authority, vested with the capacity of continuous succession, irrespective of changes in it's membership, either in perpetuity or for a limited term of years, and acting as a unit or single individual in matters relating to the common purpose of the association, within the scope of the powers and authorities conferred upon such bodies by law.

"Charter"
An instrument emanating from the sovereign power, in the nature of a grant, either to the whole nation, or to a class or portion of the people, assuring to them certain rights liberties, or powers.

"Dissolution of a Corporation"
The dissolution of a corporation is the termination of it's existence as a body politic. This may take place in several ways; as by act of the legislature, where that is constitutional; by surrender or forfeiture of it's charter; by expiration of it's charter by lapse of time; by proceedings for winding it up under the law; by loss of all of it's members or their reduction below the statutory limit.


I think the burden is to prove that the corporations were legally dissolved or closed as you put it.
Am I way off track here?

In addition, this corporation would have by-laws...
Regulations, ordinances, rules, or laws adopted by an association, or corporation or the like for it's government.

 

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[Goldwasher]

I'm still puzzled why these folks believe they can resurrect or "restaff" a closed mining district. I know how all that nonsense started (years ago in Arizona AAMD) but I've never seen any legal authority to do this. Some states have laws on the books prohibiting attempts to use former mining districts. It's really a silly concept, miners can form new districts whenever they have the support of the local miners. Local miners ARE the district. No need to play games and act like "we were here all along" to gain some credibility.

New mining districts (or any kind of district like fire, water and school districts) have to be formed according to current State laws. I pointed out in another thread some of those requirements in California - other states have different requirements. Trying to duck the current requirements by pretending to be a district of miners who dissolved (and probably died) many years ago is futile. You might as well claim you are the old "restaffed" Enron corporation the concept is the same.

Here is current California law. It's from the Public Resources Code Section 3900-3924 - the mining laws of California. We have a right to inspect the records of dissolved districts because they are now public records. I seriously doubt any County Recorder could or would turn those records over to any "mining district" so they could resurrect the district. You elected the Recorder to keep those records safe and public. Those dissolved mining districts are not in "disarray" they no longer exist. You can't "restaff" a district that has already been dissolved.



This all revolves on dissolving a mining district. So what is the legal definition of dissolve?


So a "disorganized" mining district is a dissolved mining district subject to this law in California. The mining district books have been closed and entered into the public record = no more mining district. Start your own mining district or go without, the old mining district no longer exists.

I'm all for properly formed and representative mining districts. They could be a great benefit to the miners within the district. Mining districts can establish more restrictive location rules within their district. Overclaiming and higrading can be stopped cold by a properly formed local mining district. That's one of the biggest problems miners face and enough of a benefit to get miners interested in forming a district on their own. The current "reformed" districts haven't even addressed this most important need and yet it is one of the few absolute powers they would have if they were properly formed. There are several other benefits to mining districts but none of that can work in a district without the advice and consent of all the miners. That's why large districts the size of counties have never been successful.

The law not only still allows miners to form districts but it also provides a path for those districts to be legally recognized by other government entities. ALL of this is clearly spelled out in the law. If you want your district to be anything other than a temporary club you need to establish a real mining district that meets the legal requirements of a district in your state and has the support of the miners in the district. Without both of those you are doomed to failure.

The tone of this and the other threads on mining districts here is disheartening. There are several good people trying to do their best for miners. The fact that they are ignorant of the legal requirements and needs of the miners in their proposed districts can be a sore point to many miners but that is no reason to question the morality or motives of the individuals involved. I guarantee you these folks would make more money sniping a gram a day on the American River than they do from these mining district clubs they are trying to convince you to join.

Try doing some outreach with miners and see what your responses are. No sane person would do this for anything but the common good, it's not a pleasant or well paying job. These guys have as much or more moral character than the average person they are just misinformed. That ignorance of the laws and facts is mostly dangerous because it wastes the minimal resources of the small mining community. Please don't abuse the people trying to help you, they need education not personal insults and innuendo. I don't support any of these "restaffed" mining districts but I'm grateful for the people who make this effort and care enough to try to make things better for miners.

To the subject of this post. The quote from facebook begins:


These are all false statements. So are the other "facts" in the rest of that quote. It is indeed "fake news". If my dog died and I told you my cat died I would be a liar. If AMRA tells you Shannon Poe ... (a bunch of stuff that never happened)... it's "fake news". I do know the facts behind this made up story it's all public record. I don't care if someone doesn't wish to share their claim information on a public prospecting forum, it's publicly available information but I understand and respect the logic for the average small miner. When you are a mining club trying to educate your members and the public about ongoing mining issues the situation is not private, it might be wise to actually show the process you are following rather than making up a fake story. Just one educator's opinion.

The "facts" are not only changed in this fairy tale but several of the statements about mining law show a total ignorance of the law itself. The "first to file" has never been the standard of which claim came first. The BLM has nothing to do with claim disputes and despite the AMRA post the BLM did not "create this mess". Both of those issues are already clearly spelled out in the mining laws. If AMRA wishes to help miners they should start by getting their facts straight - it's right there in the law please read and understand before you try to lead. Anyone following the "facts" in that story will be heading for disaster should they try these "facts" out in a court claim dispute.

All that being said Shannon is one of the best spokesmen I've seen for the small miner. If he would spend as much time reading and understanding the mining laws as he does speaking he might become a powerful advocate. It's up to miners to choose their path. Shannon and mining districts might be a good choice when they truly get organized enough to learn the laws and how best to leverage them. In the meantime you can form your own small districts and look to the long established successful mining organizations. They have a long track record of fighting for mining rights and winning.

Educate Yourself and Prosper!
(and be nice to your fellow miners)

Heavy Pans

Thank you Barry. It may be puzzling to you because you know this stuff. Kevin believes it because he is doing his own research. I do not believe he is ignoring aspects of the law because of how he wants the districts to be. He is trying. He really...really wants to talk to you. I know you put the info on the threads but man could you just call him. Like I said new territory. He would appreciate help from someone who really understands it.

I told him that he has to have the support of the majority to be valid and that I thought forming smaller districts was the way to go. He is convinced based on his inerpretation that re staffing is the easiest. I agree I don't think it is possible.

As far as Shannons claim I heard about it before it was ever on facebook so maybe it is just a story I don't know. I'm pretty sure he means first to locate not file. I have the same wish for them to be more accurate.He gave a pretty dumbed down version. The fact is I hear so many different mining law theories from so many different people and none of them have mal intent they just don't know just like me.. UNTIL I know.

Also regardless of what congress has said and what BLM is there fore we all agree that the fact that you can pay to overfile and be over filed on that BLM keeps the cash is a bunch of horsepucky no they didn't create the mess but it sure would be nice if they didn't help you step in it...wish ful thinking but a pretty dang logical wish.

I'm all for personal responsability. But making a mistake or poor research is very very human and leads to most of those overfilings. You can do your due dilligence wrong.

You are connected in such a different way to the information you share than 99% of anyone who will ever read this. The information to application gap is insanely wide.

I just want to ditch the finding character fault and placing financial gain as intent and simultaneously create accuracy, amongst us all.

The plain truth is if I didn't have to worry about someone taking these rights away I would have never had to dive into trying to learn it and figure it out. I bet most here feel the same. When you try to get started there is no 101 book. Considering why you formed MLM it shows that someone who knows how to handle the lariat had to hop on the horse.

Stating the laws online and metioning the obvious that it only works according to the law really doesnt help I think I'm not the only one who sees it that way. Putting it to practice is a horse of a different color.

When the situation changed from common standard customs that were just part of your life as a miner. To the way they are (un)used in contemporary times shows a lot of that hands on knowledge and practice seems to have been lost.

I will be talking to Shannon soon I'm going to pass on some concerns. You are absolutely right if he is going to be a leader he should do it well. He does spend a lot of time putting his presentations together for hearings and meetings so I know he puts effort into getting the right info out there.

I want to ask a hypothetical question. If i'm a member of MiningAmerica and i"m on my claim running say a trommel. Digging and feeding by hand using a settling pond. I'm within that zone they won't let dredge equipment in, Some one reports me and I end up with a DFW ticket of the water board cites me are they really going to step in and advocate for me?

If I try to do that on a F.S. claim they will be all over me for no NOI or POO and or the water permits. Regardless of how many times MEG or BEJAY say you don't need it regardless of how Fed is supposed to trump State it would go down like that.

With the membership they have if dredging is a form of mining why haven't they been involved?

Look at Keith Walker you can be doing something that is legal and end up in court and almost ruined and they want him to settle. If he runs out of funds and settles it will have an affect on case law wouldn't it? For moving water on his claim natural flow with a pipe.

Going to court sucks. Thank you for your help input and advice. There are a lot of good smart people reading it and trying to use it. The learning is never ending.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Just trying to figure out the legal term for a class or portion of people upon which certain powers have been granted from congress (miners), acting collectively as an organized group.
An artificial body? It's not a person.

If it's not a corporation then what is it and how does it get legally dissolved?

The more I think about it, I think it is just a defined geographic area where a majority of the miners have agreed to operate under a single set of rules and regulations.
That simple.

 

[Goldwasher]

To answer the original question. No the Mariposa Mining District exists by name only and does not have authority over any claim owner or miner within its boundaries.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Just trying to figure out the legal term for a class or portion of people upon which certain powers have been granted from congress (miners), acting collectively as an organized group.
An artificial body? It's not a person.

If it's not a corporation then what is it and how does it get legally dissolved?

The more I think about it, I think it is just a defined geographic area where a majority of the miners have agreed to operate under a single set of rules and regulations.
That simple.

A district? That's what Congress and the miners called it.

District definition:

a division of territory, as of a country, state, or county, marked off for administrative, electoral, or other purposes.

Corporations don't have districts - their charter is limited by self defined function rather than a geographic area specific to the corporate members. Mining districts encompass a geographic area overlay but the limits of their function is described by law. Two very different animals.

Mining districts are self enabling and self dissolving. I've never heard of a State or municipality attempting to dissolve a mining district. I know of no law governing the dissolving of mining districts. Even the California law I quoted doesn't give a clue. That law just instructs the County Recorder how to act if a mining district dissolves and brings their records to the Recorder.

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

Claydiggins I understand the concept of too big to be manageable for a mining district. My question is how small of district could be formulated. If it is made up of claim owners would as little as too claims suffice? How would protections from high graders be enacted and enforced?

I don't think there would be any lower limit on size of a mining district. Many have been just a square mile or less. The biggest problem with a small district would be raising money, reaching a consensus, qualifying as a legal district under State laws governing elections, collecting fees, maintaining records, agency cooperation and etc. I'm sure you can think of more potential problems.

Size could be a factor with higraders too. A qualified recognized district in California can expect the cooperation of other elected units like the Sheriff, Recorder and water board. The cooperation of the Sheriff in particular will be nil with a small unqualified mining club "district".

A properly formed mining district can make location rules and regs that are enforceable. Among those regs could be a requirement that prospectors check in with the district office to register and get a free map of the current claim locations so they can avoid trespassing. District members can define stricter regs for marking mining claims within the district. Another possible reg would be to publicly name and ban individual prospectors from the district who do not comply with the regs or those caught with prospecting/mining equipment on a recognized claim. Proper friendly signage to provide notice would need to be maintained. District members might agree to be assigned to a rotating watch for higraders. Claim owners within the district could be fined or lose their membership if they higrade another member. District members could form a legal funds pool so prosecution could be swift and done in the name of the district. With member help and quick action your district could become known as an unproductive area for higraders.

Those are just suggestions based on dissolved mining district records. Each district will of course make their own regulations based on the needs and abilities of their district members.

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

I want to ask a hypothetical question. If i'm a member of MiningAmerica and i"m on my claim running say a trommel. Digging and feeding by hand using a settling pond. I'm within that zone they won't let dredge equipment in, Some one reports me and I end up with a DFW ticket of the water board cites me are they really going to step in and advocate for me?

If I try to do that on a F.S. claim they will be all over me for no NOI or POO and or the water permits. Regardless of how many times MEG or BEJAY say you don't need it regardless of how Fed is supposed to trump State it would go down like that.

With the membership they have if dredging is a form of mining why haven't they been involved?

Thanks for your thoughtful response Goldwasher.

Here's a hypothetical answer to your hypothetical question.

If you were to run a trommel with a settling pond and get ticketed by DFW or the Water board you could ask AEMA to participate in your defense. Hypothetically they could agree to help you. They have helped many small miners.

If you were to run a trommel with a settling pond and NOT get ticketed by DFW or the Water board you would join the hundreds of other small miners who exercise their right to mine their claims responsibly every year in California.

American Exploration & Mining Association (website address Mining America) has participated in the Rinehart defense. AEMA's legal partner Mountain States Legal Foundation has been involved since the California Supreme Court accepted the case.

AEMA submitted a brief to the Supreme Court of the U.S. in support of Rinehart on March 8 of this year.

I can't tell you if AEMA would support you in fighting a hypothetical ticket. The fact that they don't participate in the consolidated dredging cases is more about the mess of unfounded claims clogging that court than it is about miners rights. When a wise person sees a pile of fresh steaming horse manure they walk around it. AEMA has been around too long to blindly step into that smelly pile.

The fact that you and others here don't realize that there are several effective recognized small miner rights groups already producing results for dozens of years doesn't change the fact that AEMA and Mountain States have been effectively fighting for your rights as a miner and public land user all along.

Heavy Pans

 

[RobertF]

The fact that you and others here don't realize that there are several effective recognized small miner rights groups already producing results for dozens of years doesn't change the fact that AEMA and Mountain States have been effectively fighting for your rights as a miner and public land user all along.

I think a big part of this is marketing. AMRA does an incredible job getting their name out there. Most miners I meet have never heard of AEMA. Go look at AEMA on Facebook, 1,100 likes. AMRA has 11,000.

 

[Clay Diggins]

I think a big part of this is marketing. AMRA does an incredible job getting their name out there. Most miners I meet have never heard of AEMA. Go look at AEMA on Facebook, 1,100 likes. AMRA has 11,000.

You are probably right Robert. I bet if AEMA had a prospecting club with several claims just for members they could get a lot of likes on Facebook. Maybe tweets to? I'm guessing once AMRA gets enough likes and twits they will win mining cases too?

AEMA is the largest membership-based mining industry trade association in the U.S. They have several full time staff to handle media, membership and outreach. Every professional miner I know is aware of AEMA. Maybe California has been too busy not mining to keep up with the largest mining trade association in the country?

I don't see this as an either/or situation. You could support both organizations if you wanted. I didn't intend to portray AEMA as an alternative to AMRA. I was just suggesting if you want representation that is effective with a long track record of helping small miners AEMA is the obvious choice.

If you are really serious about the Facebook thing being a potential drawback to effective representation you could give Devon Coquillard a call at 509-624-1158 extension 17 and let her know your thoughts. She's AEMA's Communications & Outreach Director and has a Masters degree specializing in utilization of social media in crisis communications. I'm sure she will appreciate your input.

Heavy Pans

 

[Goldwasher]

Thanks for your thoughtful response Goldwasher.

Here's a hypothetical answer to your hypothetical question.

If you were to run a trommel with a settling pond and get ticketed by DFW or the Water board you could ask AEMA to participate in your defense. Hypothetically they could agree to help you. They have helped many small miners.

If you were to run a trommel with a settling pond and NOT get ticketed by DFW or the Water board you would join the hundreds of other small miners who exercise their right to mine their claims responsibly every year in California.

American Exploration & Mining Association (website address Mining America) has participated in the Rinehart defense. AEMA's legal partner Mountain States Legal Foundation has been involved since the California Supreme Court accepted the case.

AEMA submitted a brief to the Supreme Court of the U.S. in support of Rinehart on March 8 of this year.

I can't tell you if AEMA would support you in fighting a hypothetical ticket. The fact that they don't participate in the consolidated dredging cases is more about the mess of unfounded claims clogging that court than it is about miners rights. When a wise person sees a pile of fresh steaming horse manure they walk around it. AEMA has been around too long to blindly step into that smelly pile.

The fact that you and others here don't realize that there are several effective recognized small miner rights groups already producing results for dozens of years doesn't change the fact that AEMA and Mountain States have been effectively fighting for your rights as a miner and public land user all along.

Heavy Pans

"If you were to run a trommel with a settling pond and NOT get ticketed by DFW or the Water board you would join the hundreds of other small miners who exercise their right to mine their claims responsibly every year in California."

My question was semi Hypo thetic- a rhetorical...I guess.... Cause i've been waiting on my ticket several years now.

I don't know if anyone remembers a post I made in the fall mentioning someone I know who works the M fork American using a motor and pump to blow over burden off of bedrock underwater so he can snipe. DFW visited him and left him without a ticket.

It is good to hear accounts of these things out of the realm of "clubs and "rights" groups.

"The fact that you and others here don't realize that there are several effective recognized small miner rights groups already producing results for dozens of years doesn't change the fact that AEMA and Mountain States have been effectively fighting for your rights as a miner and public land user all along."

Lets keep some things in mind here.

There are rules books for golf, bowling, baseball, football , framing houses etc.

If you put a group of fellas together give them the football rule book tell them to read it, practice and meet the top ranked high school footbll team five fridays from now for a game they are going to get their butts handed to them.

Why? A guy called "Coach" just because rules and law are on the books knowledge and practical application aren't neccesarrily following right behind. It isn't always because of the capicity of the reader or participant.

Several weeks back I was hired to teach a famous actor how to pan. Or at least look like he knows. Who will be in part of a series, I will tell you guys about when I am allowed to.
Because he is busy they sent me to Napa County to teach him there. Since I hate traffic and going anywhere near the bay area. I decided it wouldn't be a one day round trip. I made the last jaunt to Bodega Bay with plans on Dungeness Crab and fish to bring home for the family. Stay the night fish the next morning beat the afternoon traffic home.

I am a freshwater angler. I have fished from Washington up to Alaska years ago but by boat or with the appropriate licsense and stamp.

I didn't " realize" that in California you can fish from a municipal pier or pretty much any jetty without a licsense. I learned that fact when I read up on the regs to make sure I was doing what i was supposed to. I didn't know until I learned about it. I guess you could use the term "realize"

I think that the reason we don't "realize" what AEMA does is because we don't typically hear about it. Except from a guy like you who is connected in a different way. So, really I can't hold much against my self and the others who don't "know" about all that they have done.

Thanks COACH!!

 

[MadMarshall]

Our Team is here to help! If you have any questions or would like assistance in setting up your district, having us give a presentation to your mining club/group or facilitating your initial mining district meeting please call us or use the email form below.
This is from MiningDistricts.com contact page..

GW made a analogy and I thought it only half represented the circumstance's..

There are rules books for golf, bowling, baseball, football , framing houses etc.

If you put a group of fellas together give them the football rule book tell them to read it, practice and meet the top ranked high school footbll team five fridays from now for a game they are going to get their butts handed to them.

Why? A guy called "Coach" just because rules and law are on the books knowledge and practical application aren't neccesarrily following right behind. It isn't always because of the capicity of the leader or participant.


when you put it like that it sounds so innocent..
But what if those individuals claimed to be experts and claimed skills to rival the NFL and encouraged people to bet on them? and when the high school kids kicked their ass? How do you think people would feel?
and that's just a stupid football game.. Now lets put that into context of OUR RIGHTS...

I understand good intentions well enough to know that I wouldn't let a doctor with good intentions heal me nor would I let a man with good intentions school my child.. I look for individuals that show expertise and competence and experience... And this goes for my rights as well..

And honestly I don't know what kind of person goes around educating people in things that they don't understand or comprehend fully themselves? If not for personal gain I suppose all is left is "good intentions".. Figures....
Gentlemen honestly we need to protect our rights and this begins with personal knowledge and accountability.. If we allow individuals to go around and spread ignorance and portray the miner as ignorant then we are not just damming ourselves but other generations.. For me "GOOD INTENTIONS" just aint a good enough excuse..

I will not apologize for my bashing of AMRA and Miningdistricts.com .. And its likely I will not remain silent as long as they continue misinform people and represent themselves as something they are not..

 

[Goldwasher]

Does someone who does not know or understand it fully them selves, have the right to be constantly critical and imply mal-intent simply based on differing opinion or distrust?

my assertion that MMD is not valid is based on my research and discussions here, Not based on the person(s) forming it.

Since there is no evidence or measure of intent. It is much more positive and helpful to approach those people and discuss it than it is to put them on blast in a public forum and make every accusation possible.

You couldn't even answer Kevins question. Really why should he or AMRA give you any kind of answer. They are nothing to you you are nothing to them.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

It's weird how a non profit tax exempt charity can own a bunch of mining claims that they grant access for "donations".
The make a wish foundation and mother's against drunk drivers might send you a sticker if your lucky hehe. They do put on some nice luncheons though, and chili night is killer!

 

[MadMarshall]

GW

Positive Helpful? How many individuals do you think take these "leaders" at face value? Its not personal bias that makes me critical its their actions. No doubt they may all be good men with the best of intentions but that does not change the fact that they often misrepresent information and their actual understanding thereof. So I ask again what about all those people(11thousand like on facebook) AMRA misinforms on a regular basis What about those individuals who still and continue to take these mens word for gospel?

What about all those individuals that participated in the MARIPOSA MINING DISTRICT and thought they were doin them and their community a service? Well? and you ask me to concern myself with the individuals who have perpetrated the farce? My only concern is that they stop.. After that I will likely forget about them forever and ever.. But the consequences of their actions will linger long after they stop.. That the problem with misinformation and fake news its like a wildfire and its hard to put out..

I do not need to speak to Kevin or Poe or Robert as I doubt that they have any information that I would consider reliable or accurate nor do I think they have any mining prospecting expertise that I would fine useful or helpful .
They put their ignorance on blast pretty much every time they post.. I don't make this crap up they do and as long as they continue they are something to me.. Believe that.

Maybe these gentlemen would answer me if they were who they said they were.. LEADERS ..
Make no mistake GW I am more then aware I am nothing to them!! I'm just a prospector/miner.. Why would they care about me?
Honestly they don't ever need to answer me ...... But I think they should answer for their actions!!

 

[mytimetoshine]

zzzzzz....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[Goldwasher]

It's weird how a non profit tax exempt charity can own a bunch of mining claims that they grant access for "donations".
The make a wish foundation and mother's against drunk drivers might send you a sticker if your lucky hehe. They do put on some nice luncheons though, and chili night is killer!

Amra desn't own any claims per se'. Shannon and other board members do and members and they share them with all the other members. Most of the original members knew each other regionally.

From what I remember Shannon put 40k plus of his own money into legal disputes and starting Amra. He like me was dredging full time when the ban went into affect.

Donations and funds raised go into the legal fund and running the org.

 

[mikep691]

Why would Mariposa Mining District reach outside of their district? They can not control anything, they don't represent me in anything. They send me a card saying it's a MANDATORY meeting of members. I'm not a member and they have no right to assume I would bend over for them. MMD, stay in your county. YOU do not represent miners anywhere else. MMAC is bad for miners. Won't comment on AMRA, I just don't care. I will do my thing and these organizations will just bring heat on those that don't want it.

 

[Goldwasher]

GW

Positive Helpful? How many individuals do you think take these "leaders" at face value? Its not personal bias that makes me critical its their actions. No doubt they may all be good men with the best of intentions but that does not change the fact that they often misrepresent information and their actual understanding thereof. So I ask again what about all those people(11thousand like on facebook) AMRA misinforms on a regular basis What about those individuals who still and continue to take these mens word for gospel?

What about all those individuals that participated in the MARIPOSA MINING DISTRICT and thought they were doin them and their community a service? Well? and you ask me to concern myself with the individuals who have perpetrated the farce? My only concern is that they stop.. After that I will likely forget about them forever and ever.. But the consequences of their actions will linger long after they stop.. That the problem with misinformation and fake news its like a wildfire and its hard to put out..

I do not need to speak to Kevin or Poe or Robert as I doubt that they have any information that I would consider reliable or accurate nor do I think they have any mining prospecting expertise that I would fine useful or helpful .
They put their ignorance on blast pretty much every time they post.. I don't make this crap up they do and as long as they continue they are something to me.. Believe that.

Maybe these gentlemen would answer me if they were who they said they were.. LEADERS ..
Make no mistake GW I am more then aware I am nothing to them!! I'm just a prospector/miner.. Why would they care about me?
Honestly they don't ever need to answer me ...... But I think they should answer for their actions!!

Maybe if you would man up and actually talk to them off of the internet you would have an actual fruitful conversation. In the least you could direct this crap at someone who can give you an answer or not.

Though you have always been real clear on the fact that you don't really care what any of them have to say. I guess its easiest for you to do it here because you aren't actually addressing YOUR issues.

You have yet to EVER!!!! explain...show...quantify....spell out ..illustrate.. ..explicate...formulate...develop. argue..or prove how clubs or rights groups have hurt or are ruining small scale mining.

You have numerous times since joining this forum showed your personal disdain for these sort of groups even though you joined three years after the dredge ban even went into affect...at the time pretty much stating you were relatively new to the small scale mining world. Had had many dissapointments. About two years before AMRA even formed you were griping about clubs claim owners and how mining law was out dated and needed to change to suit you.

It doesn't affect you because it hasn't affected you and isn't going to yet you will just keep on ranting and bashing and hating regardless of actual facts and it has zero to do with anything AMRA or Shannon Poe has done.

You've been doing it here since you joined same complaints different targets.


an old post

"well if you were an attorney you would probably have me really confused I only got schooling to 7th grade... Well anyway I do not see how it can't pertain to claims. Claims are covered in the federal mining laws. Anyway does anybody have the name of the case that made the decision recreational miners have no rights under mining law so I may look it up and read it for myself.. I appreacate you trying to answer my questions and your patience.



One more thing..With the exception of dredging and those stupid frogs.. Who stands to lose mining rights? Everyone or just hobbiest? Are most these court cases for dredging? I just do not see how this really effects an actual miner? regulations and rules will always will be present some stupid some important.. am I correct to assume that with the exception of endangered species and no dredging I have nothing to worry about? I can understand why the clubs are up in Arms no recreational gold prospectors no club! No dredging in Cali means less members! How do these clubs skate by the federal mining laws I wonder? As I bet there income is made up by dues from members not mining?" "


​

 

[mikep691]

Forgot to mention, the MMD post card arrived two days AFTER to meeting. Guess they don't know real miners don't get mail....

 

[MadMarshall]

Gentlemen this thread has run its course .. I suggest we each take what we want from it and leave it be..

To all of you I wish you success in your pursuits and wish you all some good gold..