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Thread: Mariposa Mining District Authority is it real???

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  1. #1
    us
    Mad Marshall

    Nov 2012
    na
    903
    1523 times
    Prospecting

    Mariposa Mining District Authority is it real???

    From Amra facebook page..


    AMRA President Shannon Poe has one of his mining claims illegally top-filed.

    A claim AMRA President Shannon Poe (and three others) picked up in 2009 was top-filed by another miner in 2010. This has resulted in a myriad of angry phone calls and is a prime example of how to handle a situation like this.

    First of all, whomever files first owns the claim if it was filed correctly. Meaning: a proper location, description, it is on ground open to mineral entry and filing, was recorded properly with the county and has the proper signatures. The claim must be filed timely with the BLM and recorded within 90 days of locating the claim. Our claim is 80 acres and has 4 claimants. As a reminder, you need one signature/locator/claimant for each 20 acres filed so a 20 acre claim only needs one locator/signature, a 160 acre claim needs 8.

    This claim has 4 signatures, was properly marked (location date and marker), was properly recorded with the county, filed with BLM and the description of the claim is valid and proper.

    So what do you do if someone top-files you like this?

    Print copies of every document which pertains to the claims and obtain all copies of taxes (if applicable) paid on the claim to the county from the date of location to the current date.

    Write a time line of events. In this case, We typed up a two page time line of the two claims involved from two years prior to our filing the claim to prove there were no other claims over the ground we were filing. We included every document relating to the date of all of the claims filed in that section. We referenced each of the documents as attachments (example: attachment 1 etc...).

    Example:
    2009
    All areas within section 32 of 3S, 12E are open for mineral entry and claims location. The land is administered by USFS (Stanislaus NF). 80 acre placer claim "Golden Nugget" was staked and marked as a discovery on October 9th, 2009 by locator Poe, Seagull, Smith and Decker.

    The claim was recorded in Mariposa County October 12th 2009 and the claim was filed with BLM with a proper description on November 9th, 2009. (See attachment 1)

    2010:
    Claim named "jumper" was filed with BLM on March 23, 2010 over the top of "Golden Nugget" by claimant Wagner. The claim was recorded in Mariposa County March 27, 2010 (see attachment 2). Claim owners Poe, Seagull, Smith and Decker were unaware a claim has been filed over their claim.

    Jumper was filed as a 40 acre claim and had one signature/locator/claimant. This invalidates the claim for two reasons, one the claim was top-filed over another validly held, filed and recorded claim. Two, because the claim only has one signature and the claim file does not contain any quit claim where one person was dropped off the claim. The original documents show only one signature.

    2014:
    Claimant Wagner was witnessed by miner and claim owner Smith posting claim markers on Golden Nugget claiming the claim is "Jumper". Smith informed Wagner the claim is not his and Golden Nugget was filed and owned prior to his claim being filed. He was informed to cease and desist and remove the illegal claim markers. Wagner refused. Smith removed claim markers from the claim. Poe calls Wagner and informs Wagner the claim is not his and to cease and desist. Offers to provide all BLM and county documents proving legal ownership. Wagner refuses and hangs up.

    2015, 2016:
    No contact with Wagner and no issues reported.

    May 2017:
    Wagner resurfaces and claims Golden Nugget is his claim and that Jumper is 160 acres and encompasses the entire lower SE section. Makes a statement to mining partner of Poe, Dan Seagull that he is calling the Sheriff and have all parties arrested for claim jumping and trespass. Informs all parties to cease any and all mining operations.

    Poe calls Wagner and informs Wagner once again it is not his claim and that Golden Nugget was legally and properly filed the year prior to his locating "Jumper". Asks Wagner to contact BLM and request all documents relating to who filed the claims and when proving ownership and that Golden Nugget was filed the year prior to his claim. Wagner refuses and becomes irrational. Poe informs Wagner he is materially interfering with his mining operation and to again cease and desist with his illegal assertions and activities. Wagner becomes more irrational, calls Poe some names and hangs up.

    Today:
    We contacted the Mariposa Mining District who has authority over this area and requested a hearing. We have submitted a timeline similar to the one above and have provided all legal documents, descriptions and contact information of all parties.

    The Mining District will hold a hearing and make a ruling on the legal ownership of the claim(s) based upon the evidence.

    Once this is completed, a copy of this determination (affidavit from the board) will be provided to both parties and to the county Sheriff.

    I will be contacting and requesting a meeting with the county Sheriff once the determination is completed. I will provide all the documents and inform the Sheriff it is a civil matter, but that we are the rightful owners of this real property mining claim. If the man continues with materially interfering with my mining operations, legal and criminal charges can be pursued.

    Materially interfering with a mining operation is a crime in California, although rarely prosecuted, it is a crime. It is a felony to claim jump in California and to illegally claim someone's claim as your own.

    Mining claim disputes are a civil matter. You can't call, and expect BLM to do a thing about this. BLM allowed another person to file a claim over ours, plain and simple and this created this mess. A civil matter meaning it is between the two parties and unless this is remedied with the Mining District holding a hearing, it will then only be resolved in civil court. I spoke with BLM on Tuesday and they admitted to me on the phone, they will take anyone's paperwork, even if it is over the top of another persons claim. Let that sink in for a minute. They will allow anyone to file any claim, no questions asked. Obviously we are going to work hard to change this.

    We are fully prepared and willing to take this man to court as it is not a question of "if" we own the claim.

    We'll give everyone an update as this case proceeds.
    Have a question? Just ask, that is what AMRA is about.


    From Mariposa Mining District facebook page
    Our meeting went well with the current board being installed for the next term , we adopted a budget and briefed the miners of actions being taken in a current claim dispute


    Now I believe that the mining districts Kevin and Robert created are illegitimate.. And I am curious on if these post are just BullSHT.. I do not know both side of the story just what AMRA posted but I do not think That Mariposa Mining District has any authority to make any decisions about jack squat. So I am wondering if maybe someone could help enlighten me.. Am I mistaken to think that any decision and action taken by the Mariposa Mining District is just a joke? or maybe not? I have no doubt that Mariposa Mining district ruled in Favor of their (friends) but I just don't see how they can enforce or set any standards in relating to mining and such in their district..

    I get asked from time to time about these districts and I honestly don't believe they have the authority to do anything in regards to anything mining related I tell people as much.. the fact that they go around and hussling miners in believing they are a real Mining District and are legit is criminal in my opinion..

    So for instance .. If these jokers decided to create a mining district in my area what actions can I take to protect my mining interests?
    What legal action can be taken against these frauds if any?? Are there any laws that protect me from such manipulation and fraud? or am I subject to whatever idiot decides to create BS mining Districts?
    How can one protect himself and his mining rights from Frauds Like MMAC KEVIN BELL Robert Guarduola and whoever else decides fake a Mining District?
    Ill be gone from Sat to Tuesday.. so I may be late in replying..

  2. #2
    Make America Great Again

    Apr 2013
    Oregon
    1,228
    2697 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Fake news, only the courts can decide between rival claimants,
    even in the old days they would have to wait for the judge to make his rounds.
    the story is a plant to see who would bite, too many things that they should know is wrong
    like mineral trespass, interfering with an active mining operation are one thing
    claim jumping is just who has the better paper trail.
    if someone files over your claim you just take it to court. its done and over with...
    Last edited by winners58; Jun 30, 2017 at 03:38 PM.
    " A pessimist is an optimist with experience "

  3. #3
    us
    Mad Marshall

    Nov 2012
    na
    903
    1523 times
    Prospecting
    What do you mean the story is a plant to see who would bite? You mean AMRA knowingly posted erroneous content? For what purpose.. AMRA has long been a supporter of Kevin and Robert.. So was it posted to trick people into thinking that Mariposa Mining District is valid?

  4. #4
    Make America Great Again

    Apr 2013
    Oregon
    1,228
    2697 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I'm thinking something to do with the rivalry between the groups
    BTW! until a dispute between claimants is settled you shouldn't remove any claim markers or signs.
    Last edited by winners58; Jun 30, 2017 at 05:07 PM.
    Clay Diggins and Aufisher like this.
    " A pessimist is an optimist with experience "

  5. #5
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2010
    The Great Southwest
    2,639
    7330 times
    Prospecting
    Shannon Poe has no active claims named the "Golden Nugget".
    There is no active "Golden Nugget" claim located in 2009.
    There is no active "Golden Nugget" claim in 3S 12E Section 32.
    There are no active mining claims in 3S 12E Section 32 because there is no locatable land anywhere in Township 3S Range 12E.
    There is no mining claim named "Jumper" in California.

    Maybe that's why the "story is a plant"?

    Fake News?

    Heavy Pans

  6. #6
    us
    Mad Marshall

    Nov 2012
    na
    903
    1523 times
    Prospecting
    i dont know.. freakin baffles me. winner58 i have no clue on rivalary and planted stories. from the comments people seem to think it true and mariposa mining district os legit.
    truthfully i find it disgraceful no matter the excuse or reason... to think these individuals are goin aroind and sharing thier expertise unchecked.

  7. #7
    us
    Brian

    Mar 2014
    Central Oregon Coast
    Whites GMT Garret fully underwater
    714
    1555 times
    Prospecting
    Ignorance does not create facts.....ignorance only creates confusion. 1872 Mining Law is specific about how contested claim issues are to be resolved. Nothing in it brings forth the BLM. Congressional language dictates limited authority of BLM. Only the court can resolve contested claim issues! But Clay really laid the issue to rest....great info Clay!

    Bejay

  8. #8
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    Gold Bug Pro, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil,
    4,184
    8951 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)
    This actually is happening the names and actual locations of the claim that as over-filed have been changed. If you read the comments on the FB page or reach out and ask that info is available.

    Aside from the fact that the Mariposa district isn't valid,all the other info is useful to people that may end up in the same situation. In fact funding was never mentioned. It was just a post to share an incident so that members could read about and gain knowledge about this sort of thing.

    Many times people tell stories about their claims with out using the actual info. All anyone has to do is contact AMRA with their questions and issues. The reason some people don't is that they don't like the answers they get. It makes it a lot easier to paint the picture you want to see I guess.

    Victor decided a long time ago that AMRA was evil everything after that is based on that prejudice. They literally could do nothing right by him. Regardless of the people they have actually helped. regardless of the fact that they are literally doing what they state in their mission statement.

    Anyone who isn't out mining for a living is bad for mining, and less deserving of said miner. We have been informed of this over and over.

    A real solution if there is actually a problem is to share helpful info with someone who may not have it right. Help those that are helping others. However I understand that once someone has their mind made up it is hard to change it.

    Not a single complaint levied here against AMRA has ever improved the situation. None of the attacks or complaints have been fruitful or set "justice" strait. Though the main complainers all two (mm +TT) of them don't really want to help, they just want to bash and elevate themselves in their own minds.

    #holierthanthoudayindayout
    Reed Lukens and getmesomegold like this.

  9. #9
    us
    Mad Marshall

    Nov 2012
    na
    903
    1523 times
    Prospecting
    Jarrod . The fact that its true makes it even better.. 7 years and now they find resolution with the Mariposa Mining District.. You got to be kidding me.. the post was done for one reason and one reason only and that's to give Validity to worthless groups like Mariposa Mining District which AMRA completely supports. Whatever .. You call that an informative post I call into question your ethics..

    I have since the beginning been against AMRA and always will be.. Many many clubs recreational groups mining activist in Cali.. How often do you hear these others fall from my lips.. But yes there are a certain group of individuals that I chalk up to be conmen and a threat to mining.. AMRA Righttomine miningdistricts.com I'm sure they have other non profit or clubs that they have created but that them in a nutshell.
    I have also on a few different avenues tried to get some accountability from these groups by making complaints and I admit nothing has fruited.. So do I quit? Personally I only know one thing to do keep chipping away and finally it will break.. I am not wrong about AMRA and even though you may chastise me in my opinion of the recreational miner believe me when I say I never met a miner worth his salt that even gives groups like amra any thought . Its the recreational miner I wish to stop being taken advantage of..
    I know many people who take it upon themselves to help people and without donations and empty promises..
    Groups like AMRA don't give individuals the tools to be a successful knowledgable prospector/miner.. In no way shape or form.. but they sure do exploit the individual..

    And your dam right I take pride in bein a halfway decent prospector.. It taken work and time and persistence. I do not thrust myself and proclaim to be an expert but I been prospecting long enough to know a Fraud when I see it..

    You doing a class at the outdoor show in Auburn, Jarrod?I will be around one day of the show.. How could I miss it?... Been a while since I been in a snakepit...

  10. #10
    us
    Mad Marshall

    Nov 2012
    na
    903
    1523 times
    Prospecting
    Garrote Gold.
    Any man would benefit from any class or presentation Jarrod is willing to give.. he knows his stuff and is a credit to the community.. I was not bein sarcastic in regards to the class as I listen to what he has to say.. my reference of the snakepit was in regards to the hosts of the event.. truthfully places like this event is where individuals like Jarrod are needed the most.. The masses need true reliable honest information.



    We may not see eye to eye but that has nothing do with his knowledge..
    Last edited by MadMarshall; Jul 12, 2017 at 04:42 PM.

  11. #11
    Claim owner

    May 2017
    southern mines area mother load
    AT gold, Bazooka, any gold pan will do
    54
    24 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    his presentation in sac did not impress so I will have to take your word on that. Im new here so i havent seen all of his past post or yours, I will check them out because this looks like an ongoing theme about mining the miners and looks like you two have talked about this before....... I think alot of people here trust your opinion, so I will too. I support Amra but seems like they should have listed the true reports and not fake news, especially when all claims are so easily looked up and public.

    I dont get it, we agree its up to the court, where is the amra post about serving him documents for court, if its that simple then why not post that process on FB for learning experience, 7 years process for Amra and mining district just does not sound right, right? Thats what Mad Mining is getting at, this is suppose to be the leaders of the small community doing things the right way. Ive never had any issues with neighbors or rock collectors or fishers, hunters, or over filing so it would be nice if any real treasurenet member had a real life experience to share, maybe there is a past post someone can link for mother load over claim issues.
    Last edited by Garrote Gold; Jul 12, 2017 at 05:58 PM.

  12. #12

    Aug 2015
    305
    627 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Just FYI: I received a mailing from MMD. A MANDATORY meeting. I'm 200 miles from there. They don't represent me, my area, or any of Northern California. Go AWAY
    Garrote Gold likes this.

  13. #13
    Charter Member
    us
    Jan 2016
    North Saguache county between Gunnison and Monarch Pass
    F2
    763
    765 times
    Prospecting
    Most people in scamra couldn't find gold if they had to. Anyone that would pay $200 a year when they can stake their own claims and pay less isn't too smart. That isn't your gold for that $200 and your name isn't on the claim. What a scam.
    Learn to prospect and find your own gold and be successful. You'll never get anywhere digging someone elses gold.
    Mining claims aren't meant for club events and playing patty cakes...they are meant for MINING.
    mytimetoshine likes this.

  14. #14
    Charter Member
    us
    Jan 2016
    North Saguache county between Gunnison and Monarch Pass
    F2
    763
    765 times
    Prospecting
    They should just stop with all the fake news and bs stories. Its always something with them and usually a brawl between snowflakes. It may get their unknowledgeable followers pumped up but everyone else is just over it already. Keep those funds rolling in folks. They are the only miners I know that can't operate without your funds haha.
    A tear rolls down my cheek.

  15. #15
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    Gold Bug Pro, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil,
    4,184
    8951 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)
    its always interesting to see the real subsantce of these discussions and why there is no unity in the "small scale community" It's because of a small part of the population that has all the answers and just must bash anyone who isn't just like them.

    I am not personally involved with this overfile issue though I heard about it a while ago from Amra members. Part of the reason they didn't do anything is that they knew they had the valid claim. It wasn't until the other party wouldn't back off that brought it out. Going to court sucks most claim owners just have to deal with highgrading and overfiling in stride.

    If someone over filed me I wouldn't go right to court. I would deal with the over filer first, see what action they will take and move forward. Fact is you can't even call the sheriff for an in field intervention a deputy will not make a judgement based on a date on paperwork on a truck hood.

    As I have found out the hard way this year even if you have ample physical evidence. Video of a person with a detector on your claim more than once even. Unless you have actual video of them pulling gold or witness someone digging the sheriff won't do a damn thing, except tell them to leave and not come back. Can't search them and even if they do and find a nugget they can just say it's their lucky nugget that they bring it every time they hunt.

    Considering the amount of invalid claims because of overfiling I'm surprised it isn't in court more often.

    When I'm done with this I will be in contact with Kevin Bell as the whole district thing is lame and I aim to help him set it strait. If he resists and doesn't want to go about it the right way I will surely let you guys know.

    I stand by what I said the Amra post does have useful info for people who don't know how claim jumping happens or what it even is.

    Like Victor states he has always had it out for Amra. It is my opinion based on following him from his first post here and from meeting him in person that he is generally against mining law and anyone who owns a claim they don't use all the time. That opinion is based on his own statements attitude and stories told. It has never been hard to see for me.
    This is not an attack I always figured he wanted people to know how he felt. Used to say the laws were old and needed changed to match the times. Yet now following those laws and using them with the utmost respect and integrity is paramount...confusing and bi polar to me though I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and let him explain that part of my gripe.

    I have recently made friends with a lobbyist. He is a part time political consultant. He has just got into sniping he rafs and we are making trips down the southfork to snipe prime areas. He lobbies for the construction trades and fights enviro issues constantly. He wants to join our fight. So, he is going to help groups learn how to be pro active n the issues to help put money into the right avenues. It is a lot more efficient to reacting and getting dragged through court.

    The reason I go to the hearings and workshops and have been involved since 2009 when I was dredging for a living and was made an outlaw is because I'm not gonna sit behind a keyboard ***** whine and chastise and then not actually show up.

    It is intersting to be called out for doing such a thing. By someone who wasn't even there no less. Honestly, hell no I wasn't prepared. I couldn't make the other out of town workshops so I showed up to that one. Had no speach ready wanted to see what others touched on then I got up and spoke Ad Hoc and tried not to be redundant yet persistant with the theme of the day. I don't remember a word of it and it was to go on record as calling B.S. on the whole thing. (sb637) my son was there and got to see me stand up for my rights and the rights of others.

    So, as mentioned in the post that was rightfully removed I do have two claims on with one partner the other with him and two others. I must say that it is pretty dang cheesy to out someone's claim names on a public forum as part of a personal attack on a fellow prospector. All for what having a different opinion about what people I know are doing, trying to bring the small scale prospecting battle to more of the publics radar.
    Claim info is public knowledge yet take some savvy to sort through and I am not the only one who doesn't use my name or just post the claim names on public forums in a verbal attack of another member. The worst part is that attack is essentially carried over to my partners. That was done to put a flag on our claims and it is disgusting. When done by someone who has actually came back to tnet with a different name and is pretending to be new here, man that just takes the cake.

    In a thread questioning others integrity even. Very intersting to see the side people take and the weird immature personal jabs. The way people talk about members of clubs. It's one thing to be ahead of the learning curve and not "need" a club. But, bashing members of them. The general statements about people who join pretty distastful.

    I seek to make things beter so I will be contactin Kevin and Shannon and just keep doing my thing.

    As far as mining the miners. I have given more free hands on help than I can count. My main goal is to get as many people interested in gold prospecting as possible in the hopes of keeping it alive. mainly I sell float tubes, sunglasses, funny trucker hats and night crawlers....sick sick capitalist..gettin rich off of compst worms.
    I had a unique oppurtunity to open a prospecting and outdoor store a mile from Sutters Mill. Because of the fact that I have been working solid for the last twenty five years. I decided to strike out on my own and do something I wanted, that would allow me to mine half the year and run a store the other half. With the side benefit of meeting a hell of a lot of cool people. Self financed with my neck stretched right on the chopping block. Not even a chance of exploiting people. I have the best prices in town on anything anyone else carries and when I teach people how to pan or prospect I make some pretty big and wide smiles. Keeping in mind that I am in rubber raft meccha and this place Happiness in Nature - Mother Lode River Center and this https://cods.org/ or this place https://www.sierranevadageotourism.o...20ba269b71c15e I'm a member of the chamber of commerce they love me and I'm doing a write up on modern small scale operators for their website right now.

    I put myself in a spot to get more actual info out there...especially right here. I'm not gonna just sit on the computer and complain about how others that are actually trying to help are doing it all wrong.

    The assertion that rights groups are ruining prospecting and exploiting people is just very far off the mark. The name calling and degrading I see members using against others that they have more in common with than they like to admit is gross and not helpful to any prospector in any way.

    Effort put into input and education is much better spent than criticism based on difference of opinion and participation.

    Other than certain individuals having random run ins with leo's. I only know one person who is making a point to get right in the face of U.S.F.S, BLM and enviro groups that are dead set on getting even gold panning abolished. his name is Shannon

    In the video Toulamne Todd linked that was removed or maybe my later comment. I was saying that once they get the non motorized rule set in stone they will go after stream sluices and then panning. Izzy martin was nodding in agreement the whole time..not kidding I'm talking I noticed and it almost rattled me enought to trip up my mouth diarea ..totally surreal I don't think she even realized she was doing..kinda like a horse with one of those rubber balls in her mouths. head goes up....head goes down.

    Anyways it would be nice to run into more than the same dozen who always show(plus the ten new people I meet and the eighty others who actually care enough to show) up to these hearings and workshops discuss openly whta we wish the groups did differently explain what we want to see and what else maybe we could do. Set aside the petty b.s. for an hour or two...But, well, you now I guess you would actually have to show up.
    Last edited by Goldwasher; Jul 13, 2017 at 03:10 PM.

 

 
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