how do I file a claim on private land in California? Clay, John O.?

[Seden]

I want to prospect on a spot that has a high potential for undiscovered hardrock gold according to the USGS, but it's on private land in the desert. There's a couple of sub-questions: one is if the owner DOES have mineral rights and two is if they do not. Clay or John Oates in particular I would appreciate your help.

Much appreciated,

Randy Seden

 

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[RobertF]

If you need help researching in Kern County, Randy... let me know. It's the area I focus on and I'm at the Hall of Records pretty regularly.

It will be very important to trace the origins of the property as pretty much all that land was government owned at one point so depending on how/when it was transferred to private hands, the Feds may still have the mineral rights.

 

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[Assembler]

If you need help researching in Kern County, Randy... let me know. It's the area I focus on and I'm at the Hall of Records pretty regularly.

It will be very important to trace the origins of the property as pretty much all that land was government owned at one point so depending on how/when it was transferred to private hands, the Feds may still have the mineral rights.

You should be able to tell us all some more information. Thanks.
There will be a good reason how and why the Feds will still have "Mineral rights".

 

[Assembler]

How and When

If you need help researching in Kern County, Randy... let me know. It's the area I focus on and I'm at the Hall of Records pretty regularly.

It will be very important to trace the origins of the property as pretty much all that land was government owned at one point so depending on how/when it was transferred to private hands, the Feds may still have the mineral rights.

The how and when the property was transferred could tell a lot as well. Keep us posted, thanks.

 

[Assembler]

If you need help researching in Kern County, Randy... let me know. It's the area I focus on and I'm at the Hall of Records pretty regularly.

It will be very important to trace the origins of the property as pretty much all that land was government owned at one point so depending on how/when it was transferred to private hands, the Feds may still have the mineral rights.

You may run into the following:

43 U.S. Code § 146 - Patents to purchasers of lands withdrawn
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/43/146
Upon payment of the purchase price the Secretary of the Interior is authorized by appropriate patent to convey all the right, title, and interest in and to said lands to the purchaser at said sale, subject, however, to such reservations, limitations, or conditions as said Secretary may deem proper: Provided, That not over one hundred and sixty acres shall be sold to any one person: Provided further, That any patent issued hereunder shall contain a reservation to the United States of all oil, gas, coal, and other mineral.
(Jan. 26, 1921, ch. 27, § 2, 41 Stat. 1089.)
43 U.S. Code § 326 - Unsurveyed lands not subject to entry; preferential right of entry after survey
From and after March 28, 1908, the right to make entry of desert lands under the provisions of sections 321 to 323, 325, and 327 to 329 of this title, shall be restricted to surveyed public lands of the character contemplated by said sections, and no such entries of unsurveyed lands shall be allowed or made of record: Provided, however, That any individual qualified to make entry of desert lands under said sections who has, prior to survey, taken possession of a tract of unsurveyed desert land not exceeding in area three hundred and twenty acres in compact form, and has reclaimed or has in good faith commenced the work of reclaiming the same, shall have the preference right to make entry of such tract under said sections, in conformity with the public land surveys, within ninety days after the filing of the approved plat of survey in the district land office.
(Mar. 28, 1908, ch. 112, § 1, 35 Stat. 52.)

 

[Assembler]

If you need help researching in Kern County, Randy... let me know. It's the area I focus on and I'm at the Hall of Records pretty regularly.

It will be very important to trace the origins of the property as pretty much all that land was government owned at one point so depending on how/when it was transferred to private hands, the Feds may still have the mineral rights.

If you happen to come across the "Certificate of Surveyor" / "Mineral Surveyor" this report in part will cover:

Strict conformity with said order.......
the character, extent, location, and itemized value therof are specified therein with particularity and full detail.

If a different "Survey" was made this will be very clear by looking at the "Certificate of Surveyor". This can be part of the 'how/when' it was transferred.

 

[RobertF]

What you have to research (easiest through the GLO) is the authority under which the land was transferred to private ownership. For example, if it was under the Stock-Raising Homestead Act of 1916, or the Small Tract Sales of 1938, unlike other acts like the Homestead Act of 1862, those two separated the surface rights from subsurface rights and the US government retained the subsurface rights.

Even if the US government retains the rights doesn't mean it's open for mineral entry of locate-able minerals. Because of this, I'd say before even wasting another thought on the project, find out the authority the land was transferred upon and read the applicable act to see if you can do anything, don't even worry about owner permission at this point.

 

[Seden]

Thanks RobertF. I will check it out.

 

[Assembler]

What you have to research (easiest through the GLO) is the authority under which the land was transferred to private ownership. For example, if it was under the Stock-Raising Homestead Act of 1916, or the Small Tract Sales of 1938, unlike other acts like the Homestead Act of 1862, those two separated the surface rights from subsurface rights and the US government retained the subsurface rights.

Even if the US government retains the rights doesn't mean it's open for mineral entry of locate-able minerals. Because of this, I'd say before even wasting another thought on the project, find out the authority the land was transferred upon and read the applicable act to see if you can do anything, don't even worry about owner permission at this point.

A good place to start looking. Yes the "Acts" will make clear the 'Surface rights from subsurface rights'.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Lots of opinions here. Why not look it up rather than depend on other peoples ideas of how it should work? The law itself is the best guide.

Heavy Pans

 

[Assembler]

Just wondering what "Act" the land in question is 'transferred' under? What do the 'Records' indicate about the land?

 

[RobertF]

Lots of opinions here. Why not look it up rather than depend on other peoples ideas of how it should work? The law itself is the best guide.

Heavy Pans

Provided the land was sold under that specific act you referenced. From what I've seen on patents in the area, the Mojave was privatized under a lot of different authorities. But that would make a neat map! Haha, hint hint!

 

[Clay Diggins]

Provided the land was sold under that specific act you referenced. From what I've seen on patents in the area, the Mojave was privatized under a lot of different authorities. But that would make a neat map! Haha, hint hint!

I had no idea that Randy was looking in the Mohave. It really doesn't matter that was just an example of the laws governing locations on split estates. There are more than 50 types of patents each with their own rights and restrictions. Without knowing a specific location anything but an example would be just speculation. Keep looking and you will find more.

I research patents and subsurface mineral status a lot in my business, it's really a lot of work to track this stuff down so I've developed tools to make it quicker and easier. Hopefully someday I can develop those tools for public use.

The Land Matters California Mining Claims map already has direct links to the Mineral Patents right from the map. If the imagined deposit is on a mineral patent there is no chance of ever mining it without making a deal with the landowner. Doing so in the Mohave or Southern California reserves is a virtual impossibility. In that region it might be more profitable to buy an old mining patent and pretend to mine while making up a pretend miners group company like Joe did.

Land Matters is developing both a patents map layer and subsurface status map layer to encompass all 31 of the public land states. All patents will be on those map layers, not just mineral patents. That's a boatload of work but with enough support it could happen in the next year. There are more than 6 million patents to map. In the meantime we get by with what we have and will be slowly introducing mineral patents to the 11 western mining states maps. Right now it's just Arizona and California but if there is real interest in adding more states we can put our energy there. Just need our users to let us know what they want.

Heavy Pans