Forest service 4x4 road usage/maintnace

[Asmbandits]

Im looking into a way to transport people to my claim via 4x4 vehicle. Currently there is only access by ohv single track trail that limits access to foot or motorcycles and atv but the trail is much to difficult for atv as there are some gnarly switchbacks that are so narrow and steep its almost impassable. This current route would be in passable width wide for sure in a 4x4 jeep or equivalent. I've always noticed a bald spot along the ridge that looks to be a straight shot down to the man made ohv crossing over the creek, I imagine at one time FS bulldozed straight down the ridge to this location and used during construction of the crossing.It is currently overgrown with shrubs and has some fallen trees to deal with but im thinking might be resurrect-able. The entrance has been blocked off by a mount of dirt forcing people to use the trail. Honestly I always knew it was there and didn't really pay it much mind until recently when I purchased a utv and would like to somehow get down to the creek with it allowing me to bring people in and out of the claim easily. At least half of both paths down are within my claim boundaries, all is US forest land.

This fist map is a 1950's map courtesy of usgs, it shows what I believe is the road I am wanting to use and somewhat resurrect. You can see what is either marked as a trail or 4x4 road just below the number ten, this is the road in question.


Here is a current map and the current route.


This third map I created and blended the two maps together best I could and it looks to be just as I remember seeing it. if all goes as planned soon ill be mapping the wanted road path with my drone, and hopefully if possible clearing the route enough to use.


I would like to know where I stand if I were to take it upon myself to make this route passable to access the claim. I believe it would only require some cutting of shrubs and moving some fallen trees. I would think that since its an existing road that I would be within my rights to do so given the circumstances. I wanted to run it by the crowd in case I'm missing something, last thing I want to do is ask the FS as I'm sure they would not be happy, but I feel I'm within my rights regardless here.

 

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[mytimetoshine]

I have no idea, but i like where your head is at. Great thinking, if you can pull this off that would be really cool.

 

[Asmbandits]

I have no idea, but i like where your head is at. Great thinking, if you can pull this off that would be really cool.

Thanks Erick! I’m hoping to well document the process, another reason I want to be sure to be within my right. Should make for some good adventure that’s for sure.. I imagine lots of wasp nests and rattlesnake dens! I wonder if they make some type of cutting attachment for a utv..

 

[BosnMate]

The mound of dirt is there because they don't want you using the road. If it was me, would I attempt to go around or over it ---- probably ---- but if you get caught they wouldn't be happy, and I don't know if you would get more than a chewing out. I don't think I'd try and improve the road and then use it a lot, that could lead to problems. Locally they block roads, and guys with atv's go around or over them pretty regular, especially during hunting season. Don't know what happens if they get caught, I just see the tracks.

 

[Icewing]

I hear fire is pretty effective this time of year.

Too soon?

 

[Asmbandits]

The mound of dirt is there because they don't want you using the road. If it was me, would I attempt to go around or over it ---- probably ---- but if you get caught they wouldn't be happy, and I don't know if you would get more than a chewing out. I don't think I'd try and improve the road and then use it a lot, that could lead to problems. Locally they block roads, and guys with atv's go around or over them pretty regular, especially during hunting season. Don't know what happens if they get caught, I just see the tracks.

I can go over the mound no problem, I want to keep it as discreet as possible yet have it be passable.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

They may have closed it off because most roads that go down spurs like that end up eroding out because the water runs down the tire tracks and they can erode fast with just a few rains. That's one reason they possibly may have done it, if they don't think it's properly built with water bars and such.
If you feel like you can use it without causing obvious damage I'd say go for it because you should have the access to your claim, but be careful cutting timber too. Forestry likes to freak out if you cut anything green. Just my $.02.

 

[Reed Lukens]

Might be best to walk it first and make sure that it hasn't slid down the hill. Lot's of the roads that used to be there are closed because landslides have just totally taken them out in places. We even went so far as to build a bridge over one and then the next year, the whole hill slid down off of the smooth bedrock sheet. Drive it as far as you can on both sides, look at it completely, then repair if possible. We've taken dozers and graders in to fix roads more then once but the USFS wasn't so Anti-American back then...

 

[Asmbandits]

I plan on flying the drone down following the path to get an overall idea of its condition, then either walk or ride the trials bike down first. Ideally I won't have to cut any of the shrubs down I may be able to just drive over our around then I'm hoping. I have a winch on the utv and between that and a chain saw i should be able to move down trees hopefully. First thought was to rent a dozer for a couple of days but then I open it up to everyone which I am also trying to avoid lol.

 

[rockbar]

Road and trail maintenance to your claim is work that may be applied to your annual labor or assessment work if you file as small miner. Even if you are just clearing brush with hand tools and raking out an old existing road, you are maintaining your access. I have heard that "Improving" an existing road may be the definition the USFS uses to require you to submit a Notice of Intent or a Plan of Operation. Don't fall for it. Simply maintain your access in the most responsible way you know and you should be fine.

 

[arizau]

Where I prospect, there are prominent signs near the highway entrances that state that off road travel is prohibited and to travel on signed roads only. If you have similar signs in your area and your utv track is one that is signed then there is a reason for it and the Forest Service probably would deem unlawful the use of the old, obviously closed road/access that ends at the same point. The current map lacking the road presence and it being physically blocked by a berm is a good indicator that that is the case.

I have encountered several similar situations but in most cases there are also small flexible green signs (about 4" wide X 3' tall set at ground level) that state the road is closed. The fenced off, old, overgrown road I walk down for prospecting access has a sign that I found and had walked by unnoticed numerous times before I saw it.....it was face down, flat on the ground and covered by weeds. Where you are there might have been a sign at one time but since the area is now overgrown the Forest Service may think there is no need to replace it since it is now mostly disguised by nature (out of sight, out of mind).

Good luck and hope you get better access.

 

[ghostminer]

I would suggest contacting the FS & explain what you want to do. Sneaking around usually doesn't work out well. You are improving access which falls under maintenance work for proof of labor.

 

[Asmbandits]

I would suggest contacting the FS & explain what you want to do. Sneaking around usually doesn't work out well. You are improving access which falls under maintenance work for proof of labor.

I prefer not to involve the fs, doing so just feds into their bloated over reaching ideals. What I'm doing I do not feel is sneaky rather the opposite, I'm trying to responsibly access my claim in the most efficient manner, and trying to know before hand what legally can be done before I do it. You would think you could get this info from the fs but you would be mistaken for the most part. Acting upon ones right is all I'm trying to do, no sneaking around at all. The FS would love for everyone to believe they own and run the forest, not so much..

 

[ghostminer]

I have always let the FS know what I want to do if I was unsure. You stated you wanted to keep things "discreet". I take that to mean you don't want the FS to know what you are up to. Getting an ok from people on this site won't help if they come after you for something they feel is wrong. Always best to do things out in the open. My philosophy is to keep a good working relationship with authorities. That has enabled my company to put in 5 Plans Of operations with little problem. If you get on the bad side of them you can make things hard on yourself. Why not contact them, send them a NOI if they request one. That's probably all you need at the most & there is no cost. Then you have no worries. Just my thoughts.

 

[Asmbandits]

I have always let the FS know what I want to do if I was unsure. You stated you wanted to keep things "discreet". I take that to mean you don't want the FS to know what you are up to. Getting an ok from people on this site won't help if they come after you for something they feel is wrong. Always best to do things out in the open. My philosophy is to keep a good working relationship with authorities. That has enabled my company to put in 5 Plans Of operations with little problem. If you get on the bad side of them you can make things hard on yourself. Why not contact them, send them a NOI if they request one. That's probably all you need at the most & there is no cost. Then you have no worries. Just my thoughts.

My notions of being discreet were more for avoiding potential high graders and traffic that should otherwise use the trail in place. I'm not worried about the FS knowing its there, they already know and use parts of it, last year I found a forest service axe above the claim on part of said road. Not sure what they were doing up there but they had to use the road to get to where I found it. If they can use the road for their duties, I would imagine I would have the right to use it to access my claim. I want to say I remember reading that the FS can not willfully deny you access to your claim by blocking or gating the road leading to it. I could be wrong, but I also remember hearing something about roads existing prior to a certain date that also cannot be blocked supposedly.. If my venture were to fall within these parameters, then what the FS thinks would not be relevant.

I find that knowing where you stand before hand is better than asking someone who may have a skewed agenda. I compare it to bringing something you know nothing about to the pawn shop to ask for a value on said item. Your much better off knowing and receiving your info from an un biased source ie treasurenet. There are knowledgeable people here who want to truly help miners, I can guarantee you that you will learn more about the true legitimacy of issues here than asking a government authority. I don't believe that what I wish to do would require a voluntary NOI, nor is is required.

 

[ghostminer]

If you want to mine on any large scale you will have to deal with the FS if it's under FS care. I prefer good working relationships as we need to use significant disturbance ie excavators. I have to deal with not only the FS but the state Ca Water Q Board & Archaeologist & Federal Archaeologist/ protected plant life/animals/hydrologist & county also. All part of mining. I guess use your own judgement & good luck.

 

[Asmbandits]

If you want to mine on any large scale you will have to deal with the FS if it's under FS care. I prefer good working relationships as we need to use significant disturbance ie excavators. I have to deal with not only the FS but the state Ca Water Q Board & Archaeologist & Federal Archaeologist/ protected plant life/animals/hydrologist & county also. All part of mining. I guess use your own judgement & good luck.

Thank you for your input, I'm not arguing what you are saying and understand the importance of working with FS. This is exactly what the purpose of this thread was believe it or not, id like to see the different opinions on the matter and yours is valued. I'm thinking the difference in our opinion is more so the difference in our intentions as your obviously on a much larger scale and I would only imagine the hassles you must face..

My great grandfather was a forest ranger in mendocino national forest where he homesteaded and where our now property is located. We have learned to work well with the FS in this situation, but I will say that I've personally seen decisions made by the fs that have have no obvious intention only to keep others out for no apparent reason at all. I've seen both side of the situation and have seen some rangers so ridiculously power happy that it would make you laugh. Not all are this way Ive seen first hand.

I could see submitting a noi if I were needing to bring in equipment to work on the road, but all I'm needing to do is the general road maintenance associated with my small miners waiver I filled to make the existing road which is a 4x4 trail passable by 4x4. No modifying or changing anything or significant disturbance here sir..

 

[Johnnybravo300]

If anything, I'd ask forestry if they have a trail closed sign they can install at the berm to keep out the general public while it can be your private access. My turn has a "route closed-wilderness restoration area" sign to keep out the general public while their wilderness is being processed through my sluice box hehe.
No reason to involve forestry unless you can use a sign there. That's all I needed from them at my claim and I didn't make them file a noi with me or anything, I'm easy.

 

[Goldwasher]

It's an ohv trail area with a management plan.

Unfortunately I don't think they will let you add a new trail.

All those trails were cataloged and mapped for the plan.

I've had to go to the F.S. when we had a lease on a claim in Grizzly Flat.

They were actually very cool with me.

I would consider contacting them.



If it is an old road and on old maps. The fact that you have a claim accessed via that trail puts a lot in your favor.

Also keep in mind how many locals use those trails that are part of the ohv trail system

Plus ones that aren't

If someone sees new trimming and brush clearing it will get used by others you won't be able to hide it for very long.

 

[Goldwasher]

I'm gonna shoot you a text.

I'm right here and will hit up F.S. etc.

Getting ready to help some people locate out that way. F.S. so might as well make some buddies on the inside I promise it's the better way.

Head down...ever forward.