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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by winners58 View Post
    I have gold like that, I screen to 100 mesh and I can see it building up on the lip of the blue bowl
    you can only see it when it bunches together, I just save all my -100 to run with mercury someday.
    I'd really rather be out getting more than mess with it, I've heard of making a drip leach using a 5 gallon buckets.
    Thx Winner58,
    I normally would be doing the same. In this instance, what may be present is a high concentration of this fine gold.

  2. #17
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    Goldwasher, good observation! "
    If what you describe is gold , you already know how to get it as you've seen it." This is true, and the reason why I'm thinking a "setteling" process is the direction I need to go. I'm not decided, just sayin'...

  3. #18
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    My bad... I skimmed too much I saw mercury...tumbler fine gold etc...

    Missed the part where we were telling a guy with little experience (no offense Tahoe) to start playin with sulpheric acid and mercury...Well encouraging I guess since it was his Idea

    I thought it was about putting strips and cons and mercury in the tumbler for amalgamation.

    Not what to do after.

    Fun stuff like Nitric acid......warm sulpheric...combining with mercury...then adding metal to that solution to get a little bit of fine gold....

    Sounds like so, much more fun than actually going out and prospecting for weight.....

    Sorry Bonaro... I did miss that part and you are right.

    Tahoe...You are not there yet.

    You are close enough to many places where you can find much bigger funner gold to chase.

    And maybe at the worst have to deal with some gold that has mercury attached. Much easier to deal with.

    Typically for a guy out prospecting gold that is so fine it needs something beyond gravity and basic tools it's not worth it.

    Unless your one of those poor guys that lives in like Iowa and only has glacial gold....even then using mercury isn't a game changer.

    I never use mercury for recovery.

  4. #19
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    Goldwasher, no offense, I am a newbie without experience. And I am grateful to be here getting this info. Here's the Pics. By the way. I know for sure this is gold dust. I can clearly see it in the sunlight. You know, there's nothing like the glint of gold. Definitely not mica.
    OK, I know this is a tiny amount. I panned about 5, 12" pans of 1/2" classified material. I am sure some were a little overloaded and not enough water. Never the less, it is the amount of dust compared to the amount of small gold that is intriguing. This is what I snuffed up with the gold pieces. I didn't even bring anything else back. So, this is just from a small line against the edge of the pan. I intend to use buckets and classify some more material and bring the concentrates back to see how much is really in this deposit. Well, there you have it.Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #20
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    I bring my sluice concentrates home and screen them to 16 to 18 mesh whatever the kitchen strainer is. (pan the bigger stuff).
    multiple 5 gallon buckets of Con's then run them through my recirculating sluice, I now use GoldHog washer mats.
    takes it down to super concentrates, then screen them to 30 mesh, then use my Falcon clean up pan,
    you can screen -50 and -100 or save it up to play with in winter.

    watch the Mike Pung and Steve Wilcox series on Fine Gold recvovery
    start with the "Fine Gold Challenge"
    https://www.youtube.com/user/MrGoldcube/videos
    Last edited by winners58; Jan 22, 2018 at 03:54 PM.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahoegold View Post
    Goldwasher, no offense, I am a newbie without experience. And I am grateful to be here getting this info. Here's the Pics. By the way. I know for sure this is gold dust. I can clearly see it in the sunlight. You know, there's nothing like the glint of gold. Definitely not mica.
    OK, I know this is a tiny amount. I panned about 5, 12" pans of 1/2" classified material. I am sure some were a little overloaded and not enough water. Never the less, it is the amount of dust compared to the amount of small gold that is intriguing. This is what I snuffed up with the gold pieces. I didn't even bring anything else back. So, this is just from a small line against the edge of the pan. I intend to use buckets and classify some more material and bring the concentrates back to see how much is really in this deposit. Well, there you have it.Click image for larger version. 

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    Welcome to my world!! The vast majority of the gold I am currently finding is smaller than 50 mesh with a good portion being smaller than 100 mesh. The best way I have found to deal with/recover gold that small is to classify and pan only similar size* concentrates in batches eg. minus 30 plus 50, minus 50 plus 100, minus 100 plus 150 etc. Do this and you may surprize yourself with what you have been missing. For best recovery, I always classify my sluice and/or streamside panned black sand cons as well as raw un-run samples that I bring home in buckets. The bucket samples are usually rough panned at home first to eliminate silt, etc. that clouds the water before I classify them.

    Good luck.

    *Gold is king when it is matched only with similar sized black sands, etc.
    Last edited by arizau; Jan 22, 2018 at 06:06 PM.
    If it can't be grown, it must be mined!

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    My bad... I skimmed too much I saw mercury...tumbler fine gold etc...

    Missed the part where we were telling a guy with little experience (no offense Tahoe) to start playin with sulpheric acid and mercury...Well encouraging I guess since it was his Idea

    I thought it was about putting strips and cons and mercury in the tumbler for amalgamation.

    Not what to do after.

    Fun stuff like Nitric acid......warm sulpheric...combining with mercury...then adding metal to that solution to get a little bit of fine gold....

    Sounds like so, much more fun than actually going out and prospecting for weight.....

    Sorry Bonaro... I did miss that part and you are right.

    Tahoe...You are not there yet.

    You are close enough to many places where you can find much bigger funner gold to chase.

    And maybe at the worst have to deal with some gold that has mercury attached. Much easier to deal with.

    Typically for a guy out prospecting gold that is so fine it needs something beyond gravity and basic tools it's not worth it.

    Unless your one of those poor guys that lives in like Iowa and only has glacial gold....even then using mercury isn't a game changer.

    I never use mercury for recovery.

    No worries. The copper strips are still useful. What you are making is a called a sickening plate. you coat the copper with HG in the presence of sulfuric or dilute nitric. The acid cleans the copper and allows the HG to easily stick Then you run your cons across it and the gold will stick to the plate. This can also be done in a tumbler. When the plate is loaded it is said to be "sick" with gold thus the name. Squeegee off the amalgam, add more HG and keep on running. Run the amalgam thru a HG press and then liberate the gold with nitric.
    Of course this needs to be done in a closed system so you dont loose any HG

    Personally, I would not mess with any of this based on the pics posted. 5 pans, representing probably a hour or more of careful panning, yielded about $1 in gold.
    Time to move on.

  8. #23
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    If its so small, that you need. Mercury, let it alone, really? ?
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by loco oro View Post
    If its so small, that you need. Mercury, let it alone, really? ?
    Size doesn't matter It's how much you have that counts.

  10. #25
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    Ok, just so we can get back on trac, I sampled the area to decide the area of a deposit. The image indicates the ratio of ultra fine gold dust to gold pieces. Please resist the temptation to assess the gold deposit I am working on. I came here asking a facinating question on how to recover ultra fine gold dust. Please, for the sake of continuity of this line of reason, lets stick to the task at hand. Today, I have used my new technique to recover 5 gal of 20 mesh without using a sluice or water flow. I did it in 2 hrs. So, I am thinking of taking a small sluice 5.5" wide and 24" long, and coating it with Plastic coat spray black. Or, chalk board spray. I will first run these cons to grab the +200 mesh and then classify to -100 and possibly -350 (or what ever size is the availabe size in this range.) I will use a larger size screen to speed up the classification process. Then work the +350 for instance and concentrate efforts after to working the ultra fine dust. I feel some form of table will be the ticket. Look, a line of this material has been created thus proving this material may be manipulated into a specific location. IE,. a line in a bowl that was once again snuffed up and retained. Now I need a CLEAN way to recover as much as possible of this gold which has a huge surface area, which will be adversly affected with mercury. In the face of all this, I have succeeded in recovering these tiny particles without mercury or aqua regia. And today, I recovered 5 gal of 20 mesh in 2hrs. So, now the question will be, how much gold will be in this material. Look, just to be a guide to this, lets disregard all assumptions. Lets focus on the task at hand. Also, please, kindly refrain from responding with theory. I need to hear from experienced individuals in this recovery process. I love having a beer and talking about what could be effective just like the next guy. However, this only brings contention as those with experience and real knowledge attempt to correct. So, lets please remain on course and lets create a thread for all to benifit as well. I welcome your comments, as long as it has merit. Thank you! I will keep moving forward and am hoping for advice! I am new at this and need the help! I'll keep you updated on my progress/results so I can receive advice at each step of the way. Thank you all!
    Last edited by Tahoegold; Jan 23, 2018 at 12:51 AM.
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  11. #26
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    The new Gold Hog Multi-Sluice that I bought works great on fine gold recovery. You can just lower the pump feed rate, screen everything down to -1/4 and it catches most of it the first time. As you are feeding it, you can put a -20 mesh screen on the outfeed into a bucket and then classify it all down at once. You won't lose any gold this way and you will be running a lot faster. It's an impressive unit that catches the gold down to -300 from what I can see as is. Like I said above, mercury works best, I have done it both ways and I'm really liking the Multi-Sluice as is because everything is adjustable. You should watch all of Doc's movies on it, then when you run the -20 back through, put a -50 mesh screen on the outfeed for the final run of -50 after. It's already set up for this!

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahoegold View Post
    I will first run these cons to grab the +200 mesh and then classify to -100 and possibly -350 (or what ever size is the availabe size in this range.) I will use a larger size screen to speed up the classification process. Then work the +350 for instance and concentrate efforts after to working the ultra fine dust. I feel some form of table will be the ticket. Look, a line of this material has been created thus proving this material may be manipulated into a specific location. IE,. a line in a bowl that was once again snuffed up and retained.
    should be able to push it all into a pile with your finger and know its gold
    even if you have to look at it under x40 magnification with a jewelers loupe.
    otherwise its just powdered pyrite, some oxide, sulfide or something else.
    I would say it's more likely not Gold. I would go for the bigger gold.

    -350 is not visible to the naked eye, that means if it is gold it would be multiple pieces together to see it.
    I've zoomed in and don't see that, it looks like iron oxides from the soil.
    click to see enlarged photo;
    Click image for larger version. 

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    .
    link to view of -250 mesh gold;
    Classifying out -100?
    Last edited by winners58; Jan 23, 2018 at 11:53 AM.
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  13. #28
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    you screened five gallons in two hours?

    That's not fast at all for $ .60 in gold.


    You will get much more of that bigger stuff that you can see if you just run a regular sluice classified to about 1/2 inch.

    What process did you use to get what you did?

    The type/location of the deposit matters why can't we talk about it?

    No water flow? But you did use water?

    Like winners I'm not convinced the super small stuff is gold.

    If it is you would need ten times as much as shown to weigh as much as those small grains.

    Also consider you are already recovering whatever that is so, whatever you are doing is working.

    I would be trying to process way more than five gallons of material in two hours.
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  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahoegold View Post
    Hi all,
    The other day I found a patch of gold in a highbank. I've been sampling to find the parameters. So, I didn't move much dirt. I used a snuffer bottle to grab the tiny -50 mesh I would say and took that plus some of the sands surrounding these pieces from my pan. I am being careful and gentil to recover as small of gold as I can. I went home with only my snuffed material. I then decided to try a process I saw on line that uses one small dish inside a slightly larger dish. Then ran a steady stream on one side of the small dish pushing the black sands out the opposite side like the blue bowl process. To my surprise, it really worked. I would say -100 stayed and only 4 bits of black sand remained. I had about 20 pieces of gold. Then comes the interesting part. I took the bigger of the bowles and tried to swish the black sands around to see if any gold spilled into it. No,not even a tiny speck. Upon setting this bowl down I noticed some material forming a line. It was moving like mud does in water. You know, cloudy swirling color. This material, however, quickly settled into a trough on the bowl. I thought, humm, that looks like it may be golden. I swished it gentlyand was able to get a better defined line. This really looks and acts like gold. It really settles fast and looks like it could be ultra fine gold dust. I have been looking into methods of recovering this tiny pigment like form of gold. Millertables I believe would wash this away. The two bowl method seems to capture it though! I am going to try the two bucket process that uses a whirlpool and a test plug to capture all the gold.
    My question is, if just a tiny bit of black sands can produce a visible amount of gold dust. If this can this be mined to produce some quantity. How would a newbie recover this ultra fine gold dust in s payable quantity? I'm curious as heck. I've accidentally recovered the smallest particles I could ever imagine. I couldn't even tell you how small the mesh of the would be. It moves like smoke in the water before setteling. I literally had one drop of black sands that produced this material. I am proceding with caution. I need advice. Anyone have actual experience mining this? Please, lets not speculate. Experienced miners, please advise. Thanks!
    I think what you're attempting is great, the only way to move forward gold mining is to try and figure out new ways to get more gold. Lots of it still out there and left over from the old timers for various reasons, some social, some technological. Times change new technologies come available. People sometimes think things can't be done until someone proves differently. Historically gold mining technological advances only came when people were economically forced to change. Some deposits aren't exploitable by big operators, can only be worked by hobbyists/ small scale-rs working discreetly. I've got a little experience with gold recovery using Mercury. Mercury can be made to work if your particles are a large enough size. Too small and it isn't very effective.

    Mercury. Crazy liquid metal. Barely denser than gold. Know for its unique property to "surface tension-up" (amalgamate) gold.
    Mercury effectiveness for Gold recovery is all about gold particle size and liberation from foreign (gangue) materials. So how does mercury work? Its all about surface tension. Mercury and native gold because of something to do with the electrons in their outer shells combined with their similar densities, and surface tension, mercury draws gold particles up in to its surface tension and dissolves a very small percentage (less than 0.1 percent of the gold by weight) into the mercury. There's basically no gold particle too large to amalgamate as long as you have enough mercury. However too small of a particle size and you can't get the interface of the respective gold-mercury surfaces. Not enough of the gold can come into contact with the mercury to break the mercury surface tension for it to draw the gold up. For the same surface tension reasons the gold must be totally freed from foreign materials/ coatings (gangue rock, oils, mineral coatings). Around 200 mesh and smaller is where mercury stops being as effective at capturing gold assuming the gold is clean, bright and shiny, which is usually a given for placer gold, not always the case with hard rock ores.
    Heres some reference material to contemplate:
    https://www.scribd.com/doc/43820757/...covery-Methods (Page 5).

    For all its bad rap metallic mercury is pretty safe to living organisms. Vaporous mercury and mercury ions, salts and organic compounds are the big ouch. You could take a swig of metallic mercury (which they used to prescribe for constipation) and it would run through you along with everything else for an interesting bowel movement.
    So metallic mercury okay, vaporous mercury, mercury ions, salts and organic compounds whew boy! There've been instances where a couple drops of organic compound mercury killed people. So how do you keep it metallic state? Basically use as little as possible with chemically non reactive materials. Concentrated washed placer sands? Pretty safe. Raw hard-rock ores? Boy you better watch out. All the sulfur and who knows what else in raw hard rock ores can compound with mercury and form who knows what manner of biologically soluble compounds.

    Some notes on my experience with fine gold formation/ ore genesis. I did some experimenting with recovering gold from pyritic origin hard rock ores. During the formation event the gold is deposited along with pyritic (sulfide) minerals. Predominantly within iron pyrites in my district, although know to form in calcopyrites and aresno-pyrites (You really don't want to mess with arseno-pyrite). The gold is contained as fine particles and coatings within the crystaline matricies of the vaious pyrite (sulfide) minerals, and is liberated as finely grained sheets, layers, and pockets of finely aggregated gold particles when the pyrites oxidize away. The material I experimented on had gold generally 300 mesh and smaller, a dust more or less. They occur in concentrations enough to be visible when aggregated together but they are not a singular agglomerated consolidated mass of gold but rather aggregated particles of fine gold.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Gravity separation: Basic gravity separation by panning samples was not effective for me. Probably for two reasons 1) achieving a fine enough particle grind/ liberation size and 2) primitive method used (panning). Probably would help if I ground and classified to a finer size before attempting.

    Amalgamation: I achieved a result but low recovery yield when I attempted amalgamation. Process: ground rich samples to about 16 mesh and roasted to neutralize as much reactivity with the mercury as possible. Ran the material in a homemade pan mill. Ran with mercury in the bottom and wetted to the consistency of a thick milkshake with a little jet dry. Grind time 1 hour 3-4 tuna cans of material at a time. Ground to a fine mud and floated out the grind with water. Observed pieces of mosquito eye gold flow out un-amalgamated in the tailings. Recovered mercury and retorted and got a little bead of gold. But I suspect I lost a lot of it, although I do not have assay results on the feed stock and tailings to compare. Click image for larger version. 

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    Some kind of chemical leach may be most effective but I cant make any reccomendations there as I've not sucessfully executed a process I am comfortable with yet. If you can collect enough you can send it to a refiner as a dust and they'll take care of it. Precious metals buyers, smelters, refiners of gold, platinum, silver scrap metals, dental gold scrap, platinum thermocouple wire, crucibles, silver scrap. Gold refiners, platinum scrap buyers, recyclers karat gold jewelry. Sell gold, platinum and sil

    Some places will take black sand concentrates if you accumulate enough and are okay with a 15-30% recovered values charge.
    TCB Metals and Refining
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  15. #30
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    Tahoe, I dont agree with your intentions of mining this unremarkable deposit...but I will help you down that road.

    1. Your net efficiency is only as great as the least efficient link in your chain of equipment. For instance is you classify then highbank with common mats then run the cons from the HB thru a Miller table you can expect this: The common sluice in the HB is maybe 30% efficient at catching gold that is -200 and the table is probably 98% efficient. This means you have already lost 70% of the gold before it gets to the table

    2. Gold recovery is a process of elimination. If you already know that there are no gold particles larger than 20 mesh in this deposit then you also know that everything larger that 20 mesh is waste. Screen everything to 15 mesh and toss all of the oversize. You have now eliminated 90% of the material you need to run. Next, devise a way to separate the magnetic fraction...toss it. Depending on your deposit you may have just cut your remaining 10% in half. In theory you have just reduced a 5 gallon bucket to less than 1 quart. Skip the sluice and run this directly on either a Miller table or shaker table.

 

 
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