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Thread: Reclamation bond

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  1. #16
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    Also, to define the purpose of the POO'S more clearly : They are a way to test your ground on a larger scale before you go into a full scale permitting situation. If on good ground you can also bankroll some money towards the next step. In our situation once the POO'S are all run we will hire a professional company to help us achieve our goals of full scale mining. They have looked at our operation & we have passed any fatal flaws that could put a halt to scaling up. We were told to expect a year or more to get a large plan in place & they estimated a cost of $30,000. Each step you go through successfully from POO'S all the way to full scale mining permits also make the property more valuable. A step by step process requiring patience.

  2. #17
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    did they bury him with the trommel?

    I was just pointing out that at the yardage stated you would be done with one of the poo's in two days.

    The way he was talking in the video it was getting ready to be a full time thing. Did you have different poo's for that set up?

    Seems pretty big for exploration

  3. #18
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    Actually guy says 50 yrds an hour .. running up to 18 hours a day. so one day and POO is tapped out

    900 yards ran five ounces found one day. like less than a quarter gram per yard.


    so all poos could be done in a week.

    That trommel would make it worth it... something smaller though


    Hope you get it scaled up to where you want it.... It will be interesting to see where you end up.

  4. #19
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    Answered in private mail.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostminer View Post
    Also, to define the purpose of the POO'S more clearly : They are a way to test your ground on a larger scale before you go into a full scale permitting situation. If on good ground you can also bankroll some money towards the next step. In our situation once the POO'S are all run we will hire a professional company to help us achieve our goals of full scale mining. They have looked at our operation & we have passed any fatal flaws that could put a halt to scaling up. We were told to expect a year or more to get a large plan in place & they estimated a cost of $30,000. Each step you go through successfully from POO'S all the way to full scale mining permits also make the property more valuable. A step by step process requiring patience.
    Neither the Forest Service nor the BLM "permit" mining. They are exclusively surface management agencies when it comes to mining claims. Mining your claim is one of the rights you gained when you claimed the minerals.

    There is no such thing as a Forest Service (or BLM) mining permit. You either have a mining claim with a right to extract the valuable minerals, a lease with a lease payment for of one of the leasable minerals (phosphate, potash, sodium, sulfur, coal etc.) or a purchase of a specific amount of non locatable minerals (sand, gravel etc).

    A POO is the final step needed to mine on a mining claim on public lands. Neither the BLM nor the Forest Service have the right to require a "permit" for mining. Once your POO is in place and bonded you can do whatever you proposed to do when you submitted your Plan of Operation.

    The only "expense" for a POO is providing a refundable reclamation bond. You get that money back when you finish your reclamation. There may be air or water permits required by the State or County if you will be producing dust or using water but there is no federal permitting process for locatable minerals. You might pay someone to help you in the creation of your POO but that is a cost for advice and assistance not a "permit" to mine your claim and not a required fee for a POO.

    Heavy Pans
    Last edited by Clay Diggins; Feb 07, 2018 at 09:52 AM.

  6. #21
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    Correct. No federal permit. It goes through the county. Try mining without the permit approved & you will be escorted off your claim.
    winners58 likes this.

  7. #22
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    The beds of "Navigable bodies of water" are not public domain and are not subject to survey and disposal by the United States (common highways). The sovereignty is in the individual States. The "Appropriation of water" can be a issue.
    This of course is a separate issue from the mining itself. A spray mist system can help with keeping the dust in check.
    Sounds like the "Bond" is based upon the yardage / area size of the "Surface impact".

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostminer View Post
    Correct. No federal permit. It goes through the county. Try mining without the permit approved & you will be escorted off your claim.
    I'm not sure what you mean about "no permit" ...no federal permit. Perhaps a POO is not a permit but it has to be approved, in my case, by the federal agency BLM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Diggins View Post
    A POO is the final step needed to mine on a mining claim on public lands. Neither the BLM nor the Forest Service have the right to require a "permit" for mining. Once your POO is in place and bonded you can do whatever you proposed to do when you submitted your Plan of Operation.
    Kinda like the post above, altho it is not a ermit: it is the agency (BLM) that your POO goes thru and a needed piece of paper in this county. At the point (correct if I'm wrong) of acquiring a POO it is out of the county's hands.

  10. #25
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    Yes,parsing words. A POO is NOT the final step to mine if you are disturbing more than 1000 cubic yards. You could say a POO is not a permit. Whatever. You need an approved POO with the FS or BLM to do significant disturbance & that disturbance is limited to 1000 cubic yards. If you can do it yourself there is no charge. If you are going bigger than that you will need to go through the county permitting process. This is much more detailed than a POO as you are disturbing more ground. There is an application fee & there will be environmental issues that have to be addressed. A POO addresses some of the same things but is easier because of the small scale. It is a big process going to a large scale & you will usually need help from professionals. Instead of listening to people who have never been through the process I suggest you talk with the FS & BLM & then the county you are in to get a complete understanding of the process. I know of one group that had a POO with the FS & were in the process of permitting to larger scale with the county but got tired of waiting. They went in with equipment & got caught. They were escorted off the claim & not able to do anything for 2 yrs.
    Last edited by ghostminer; Feb 09, 2018 at 08:27 AM.

  11. #26
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    Here is the POO template for FS. No charge to submit. Then you wait for all the agencies to go to your ground & sign off.
    https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE...eprd488807.pdf

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostminer View Post
    Yes,parsing words. A POO is NOT the final step to mine if you are disturbing more than 1000 cubic yards. You could say a POO is not a permit. Whatever. You need an approved POO with the FS or BLM to do significant disturbance & that disturbance is limited to 1000 cubic yards. If you can do it yourself there is no charge. If you are going bigger than that you will need to go through the county permitting process. This is much more detailed than a POO as you are disturbing more ground. There is an application fee & there will be environmental issues that have to be addressed. A POO addresses some of the same things but is easier because of the small scale. It is a big process going to a large scale & you will usually need help from professionals. Instead of listening to people who have never been through the process I suggest you talk with the FS & BLM & then the county you are in to get a complete understanding of the process. I know of one group that had a POO with the FS & were in the process of permitting to larger scale with the county but got tired of waiting. They went in with equipment & got caught. They were escorted off the claim & not able to do anything for 2 yrs.

    no one has the right to "escort" you off of your claim. Unless your actually being arrested.

    If you have a p.o.o. and are mining the county would have to call the sheriff...and they could only get you if your breaking an ordinance.

    But, that doesn't make sense either because at that point you should have met SMARA req. have your permits in place per the POO

    and the county has no say


    Butte county has a retainer payment for mining and reclamation but, that should be for mining on land the county is the lead agency on. I.E not public lands
    Clay Diggins likes this.

  13. #28
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  14. #29
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    Some things are left to the discretion of the district ranger as far as what significant disturbance is. Some of them are more anti mining than others. They can issue warnings & take you to civil court. For sure any use of machinery will be classified as significant disturbance. I filed an NOI on a part of one claim for hand digging gravels to be run through a Gold Claimer 5 yd per hour motorized trommel. I was told I needed to file a POO. Obviously this should not happen as hand digging is not significant. I could have ignored them to see what would happen I suppose.

    The new rule states : IF THE OPERATOR REASONABLY CONCLUDES THAT THE PROPOSED OPERATIONS WILL NOT CAUSE SIGNIFICANT DISTURBANCE OF NFS RESOURCES< THE OPERATOR IS NOT REQUIRED TO SUBMIT A NOTICE OF INTENT.

    No penalty provision was added to 36 CFR 228. The Forest Service can still utilize the civil courts to go after a miner who causes a significant disturbance, which is no change to the previously existing regulations.

    So in other words, the FS has no power to arrest as I read it.
    Last edited by ghostminer; Feb 09, 2018 at 10:25 AM.

  15. #30
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    If the focus is on hand digging there should be no 'Significant disturbance issue'. A machine can still be used however not for the 'Significant disturbance issue'. Thus can be classed as a 'Hand scale operation' as far as the 'Significant disturbance issue'.
    Any "Appropriation of U.S. waters" is a different issue. Also a 'Engine on Vessel' is a separate issue.

    If one starts digging up trees there is going to be a 'Significant disturbance issue' by hand or with a machine.
    Last edited by Assembler; Feb 09, 2018 at 03:17 PM.
    ghostminer likes this.

 

 
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