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Thread: Conspiracy To Keep Gold In The Ground....?

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  1. #16
    us
    Hardrock prospector

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    Quote Originally Posted by gldguy1 View Post
    How is it illegal to sell your gold, I know tons of people who have sold their gold they got from public land in nor cal?
    Did "Congress dispose of most of the Lands" in the past? If not you better hold on to the gold nuggets now and not "Sell" them........LOL....LOL.
    Better yet you best not make a "Discovery" or the "Congress" will come after you........LOL.
    Thanks for the laugh.

    Sell from Black's Law D. 4th ed. page 1525:
    To dispose of by sale.

    Sale. A contract between two parties,...........transfers to the latter the title and the possession of property..........

    So if the "Congress" did not "Dispose of most of the Lands" you better watch out and hold on to every little piece ..........LOL......LOL.

    Yep there is a "Contract of sale" for every little piece of "Minerals".......LOL.....is this the "Claim"?......LOL,

    Needed a little laugh here that is all. Thanks.
    Last edited by Assembler; Feb 12, 2018 at 10:47 PM.
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  2. #17
    Make America Great Again

    Apr 2013
    Oregon
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    If you just go out on the public lands and take minerals or materials and make a business out of selling them,
    those resources are managed and a conditional use permit would be required, I've seen people get fined big time
    for taking Arizona flagstone without getting a permit, I don't agree that prospecting, panning and sluicing should fall
    under rock collecting, panning and sluicing is an existing use, there is evidence people have been doing it for thousands of years.
    Lobby for an exemption like 5 yards per year non-motorized panning, sluicing, rocker box etc...
    something like that wouldn't be wrong to call Recreational prospecting as there are already rights on mining claims.
    while you're at it Lobby for stricter mineral trespass laws. ether be involved or have others make the laws for you.
    Last edited by winners58; Feb 13, 2018 at 11:02 AM.
    " A pessimist is an optimist with experience "

  3. #18
    us
    Hardrock prospector

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    The term "business" has no definite or legal meaning.
    From Black's Law D. 4th ed. p. 248.

    "Surface Management" covers or encompasses "Administration, or Disposal of the Title" can be found in almost any "Manual of Surveying Instructions" as well as many "BLM documents".

  4. #19
    Make America Great Again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Assembler View Post
    The term "business" has no definite or legal meaning.
    From Black's Law D. 4th ed. p. 248.

    "Surface Management" covers or encompasses "Administration, or Disposal of the Title" can be found in almost any "Manual of Surveying Instructions" as well as many "BLM documents".
    did you try nunyabusiness? I used business as an adjective - someone involved in a profit seeking enterprise...
    Reed Lukens and Arachnofreak like this.
    " A pessimist is an optimist with experience "

  5. #20
    Charter Member
    us
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    Blackfoot, Idaho
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    I read something a few years ago that said you could take a single rock/day, up to 250lbs/year, without a permit. As I recall it was a BLM rule. But rules change, and I have no idea what they are now, nor do I care.
    Jim

  6. #21
    us
    Hardrock prospector

    May 2017
    Middle Oregon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho View Post
    I read something a few years ago that said you could take a single rock/day, up to 250lbs/year, without a permit. As I recall it was a BLM rule. But rules change, and I have no idea what they are now, nor do I care.
    Jim
    The idea you point out here is referred as "Right of common" (Profit a prendre). A right exercised by one man in the soil of another, accompanied with participation in the profits of the soil thereof. A right (Peoples rights) to take a part of the soil or produce of the land.
    Thanks for pointing this out Jim in Idaho.
    Arachnofreak likes this.

  7. #22
    Make America Great Again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Assembler View Post
    The idea you point out here is referred as "Right of common" (Profit a prendre). A right exercised by one man in the soil of another, accompanied with participation in the profits of the soil thereof. A right (Peoples rights) to take a part of the soil or produce of the land.
    Thanks for pointing this out Jim in Idaho.
    Jim is referring to rock collecting on public lands, You are describing an "easement" as used in some other countrys, not the same, or even related.
    Last edited by winners58; Feb 13, 2018 at 01:42 AM.
    Arachnofreak likes this.
    " A pessimist is an optimist with experience "

  8. #23
    us
    Hardrock prospector

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    Quote Originally Posted by winners58 View Post
    Jim is referring to rock collecting on public lands, You are describing an "easement" as used in some other countrys, not the same, or even related.
    Is the "Rock collecting on public lands" a "particular and peculiar benefit or advantage enjoyed by a person, company, or class, beyond the common advantages of other citizens"?
    Is the "Easement" referred above, a type of a "Privilege"?
    Is the "Rock collecting on public lands" a form of "Administration"?


    What if the "Rocks collected" have some values within them.
    Could a "Prudent man" be inclined to proceed to make a "Discovery"?
    Can a "Discovery point" be any part of a "Mineral deposit"?
    Can "Unappropriated lands / lands belonging to the United States and which are subject to sale or other disposal under general laws" be included thereof a "Mineral deposit", if so how?
    Does "Congress have any records of disposal of these lands"?

    Good point about "Right of common" having a origin before the "Founding of this Nation".
    Last edited by Assembler; Feb 13, 2018 at 03:50 AM.

  9. #24
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
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    Because it doesn't belong to you. Read the laws you can collect for personal use.

    There is a reason for the claim process.

    I am well aware that people sell gold that they don't have actual claim to. Never said that it didn't happen.

    It is however in fact unlawful. to develop a mineral resource on public lands with out the right to the resource.

    Digging something out of the ground and selling it on the public market is developing the resource.


    Mining law covers valuable minerals. There is no where in the mining law that says you can go take everyone's property without claim and make money off of it.

    You can in some instances do so with a commercial collection permit.

    But, the legal way is to locate a claim.


    Just because you didn't know that's how it worked...it doesn't mean it doesn't work that way.


    If the blm finds out you are collecting for commercial gain you can get in a heap of trouble. Be it crystals or gold.
    Clay Diggins likes this.

  10. #25
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
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    Different state BLM offices have slightly different rules it is usually 250 + 1 pound per year and you can't even barter with what you find.

    As usual it ends up being an enforcement issue.

    There are a lot of people who don't care or don't know.

    Its public lands. if you do not have legal right it belongs to everyone so you can't make money off of it. It's pretty simple.

    Not an overreach it has been that way for a long time now.

    https://geology.com/minerals/legal-a...ck-collecting/

  11. #26
    Charter Member
    us
    Jul 2012
    Blackfoot, Idaho
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    Well, at one point it was unlawful to help slaves escape. The laws aren't always written to help the people. In fact, they're usually written to help only the people who write them. That's why the rich are getting richer. One thing I've noticed in my 69 years is that people generally won't obey immoral laws. If the laws don't make sense, people don't obey them. A good example was Prohibition. Another was the 55mph speed limit. Good laws don't need much enforcement because people understand the necessity, and willingly do the right thing.
    Jim
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  12. #27
    us
    Hardrock prospector

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    Where the "Lands disposed of by Congress"? Is there any "Records thereof"? Can "Congress" 'un-dispose' the "Disposal of Lands"?
    Thank you for the answers.
    Last edited by Assembler; Feb 13, 2018 at 12:24 PM.

  13. #28
    Charter Member
    us
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    Blackfoot, Idaho
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    Here are two more valid counterpoints. The first is that the original mining laws were written by the miners themselves. The laws weren't written to protect the resources
    FOR the general public. They were written to protect the claimant FROM the general public. They didn't want just anybody to jump on their claim and remove resources that the claimant (by their hard work) had located. The laws of our country were always written that way. Look at water law, for example. In almost all cases the law says "first in use owns the rights to the water." The general public has no rights to the water.
    The second is the idea that removing items for PERSONAL USE somehow suggests that that personal use excludes sale of the item makes no sense. If my personal use includes trading that item for another item, or currency, why shoudn't I be able to do that? Unless the law specifically states that sale is forbidden, sale of the item is lawful. Unless the law specifically excludes sale, I'd be very surprised if you'd find a judge anywhere, except in the most liberal states, that would find you guilty of some crime for simply selling a small hunk of gold, or a pretty rock.
    Jim
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  14. #29
    us
    Aug 2015
    Montana
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho View Post
    The first is that the original mining laws were written by the miners themselves.
    Jim
    I believe they were written by some smart men in congress (unlike todays idiots) who had the mindset of encouraging exploration, expansion, developing resources, and creating jobs and wealth to further benefit a growing US. True capitalism maybe... the way it should be?? Unfortunately things have changed..........jmo
    Assembler and T.C. like this.

  15. #30
    us
    Hardrock prospector

    May 2017
    Middle Oregon
    Whites, Fisher, Garrett, and Falcon.
    1,070
    341 times
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho View Post
    Here are two more valid counterpoints. The first is that the original mining laws were written by the miners themselves. The laws weren't written to protect the resources
    FOR the general public. They were written to protect the claimant FROM the general public. They didn't want just anybody to jump on their claim and remove resources that the claimant (by their hard work) had located. The laws of our country were always written that way. Look at water law, for example. In almost all cases the law says "first in use owns the rights to the water." The general public has no rights to the water.
    The second is the idea that removing items for PERSONAL USE somehow suggests that that personal use excludes sale of the item makes no sense. If my personal use includes trading that item for another item, or currency, why shoudn't I be able to do that? Unless the law specifically states that sale is forbidden, sale of the item is lawful. Unless the law specifically excludes sale, I'd be very surprised if you'd find a judge anywhere, except in the most liberal states, that would find you guilty of some crime for simply selling a small hunk of gold, or a pretty rock.
    Jim
    Some good points you point out Jim in Idaho. Yes the idea that "Location covers the workings of the prior locators" shall be minimized was a very big concern and was often "Governed by the Miners".
    In Mining Law the basis is the "Right to locate a Mining claim" upon the "Public domain", where as the "Discovery" means the "Finding of mineralized rock in place". The finding of values within rocks is a type of "Discovery" with a very long history. The fact is "Mineral in Character" is not the same as "Mineralized rock in place" as this can be shown by the "Mining claim" itself.
    Others out there can expand on this.

 

 
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