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Thread: Question about adding extension to 2 1/2" Combo Hibanker/Dredge

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  1. #16
    us
    Oct 2017
    The Land Between Two Rivers
    23
    13 times
    Prospecting
    Yes Mike,

    We'll have to agree to disagree.
    I don't know where you get your information but I do know that you have never tried to breathe thru a plain hose five feet deep. I am definitely saying that it is definitely impossible for you to do so. If you try it, try it in a pool with someone standing by in case you suck in too much water when you try to suck in air thru the hose.

    Everything on Earth has weight. We don't notice the air we breathe having weight until a windstorm, then it pushes us around.

    Even still air has weight. At sea level the air stacked up all the way to outer space weighes approximately 14.7 pounds per square inch (psi). We don't notice it because it pushes on all sides/parts of us equally.
    No matter what elevation we're at the pressure is equal on all parts of us.
    At Denver, CO the pressure is less so water boils easier and athletes have a harder time competing when they first get there.

    When one goes below sea level the air gets denser (or heavier) yet. But when one goes below water you have to add the weight of the water as well.
    For every 33' down the pressure increases one atmosphere or 14.7 psi.

    If you had a beaker one inch square and six feet tall set on a scale, zero it out, then added water to the five foot mark, you would find that it weighed approx. 2.167 lbs.

    Now, if you were five foot under water you would have 2.167 lbs of extra pressure on every square inch of your body. We won't count the extra pressure you would have on the bottom side if you were laying horizontal. You can pour more water into the beaker to equal the thickness of your chest to find out.

    That's 2 lbs on your entire body, not just your torso. But we'll just figure part of the torso area. Many sizes of people of course but we'll just figure one sample.

    Say a healthy young man with a 42" chest. We'll round that down to 40" and measure up from his belly button 12" to have a cylinder with 480 sq in surface, that adds up to over 1040 lbs of pressure on his chest to overcome to take a breath.

    I don't see it happening.

    Good luck Mike
    Clay Diggins likes this.

  2. #17
    us
    Aug 2004
    Olympia WA
    Minelab Xterra 70, Minelab SD 2200d, 2.5", 3", 4"and several Keene 5" production dredges, Knelson Centrifuge, Gold screw automatic panner
    854
    1860 times
    Prospecting
    It seems like we are commenting on two topics here. Extending a snorkel tube so you can breathe underwater a little deeper and extending a nozzle tube so you can suction gravel deeper.

    Regarding the air snorkel...Yes you can add an extension and even float it on the surface with a hemorrhoid doughnut . It will work down to about 3 feet and I will happily pay you cash money to be able to take some video of this.
    HOWEVER, you need to take a reality pill here before you start going DIY on this. Being and working underwater is a exercise in survival. You are in a hostile environment that will quickly kill you if your life support equipment fails you. Are you seriously willing to risk your life with a chunk of garden hose and a hemorrhoid doughnut? Before you put your head underwater...get some training and only use equipment designed and built for this purpose.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    CyHawkGold and russau like this.

  3. #18

    Aug 2015
    527
    1066 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    At this point the hole is not developed enough to need an extension. By September it should be. I'm actually hoping the bedrock is not deep enough to even need it, but if it turns into a "glory hole", I'll do whatever it takes within my budget. I'm not suicidal, just resourceful. I won't be doing this without a tender and only in a couple feet of water. If it works, good. If the hole gets too deep, I'll invest in a better/safer idea.

    Yes, it is kind of two-fold. Extending just the nozzle gets you sucking gravels deeper, but I think you'll be spending more time bringing the nozzle up to clear jams. Even in three feet of water, you need to be close enough to the nozzle to not have to stop every 30 seconds to clear the jams. Just staying close enough to reach the tip of the nozzle is all I'm suggesting. I'm only talking about adding 18", and not breathing your own CO2.
    Last edited by mikep691; May 13, 2018 at 11:47 AM.

  4. #19
    us
    Oct 2017
    The Land Between Two Rivers
    23
    13 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by ratled View Post
    There is a reason you can't buy longer snorkels........
    This says it all.

    And it's not because the manufacturers are too cheap to change their molds.


    I've said enough, I'm done, goodbye.


    Have fun everyone!

  5. #20
    us
    Aug 2004
    Olympia WA
    Minelab Xterra 70, Minelab SD 2200d, 2.5", 3", 4"and several Keene 5" production dredges, Knelson Centrifuge, Gold screw automatic panner
    854
    1860 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by mikep691 View Post
    At this point the hole is not developed enough to need an extension. By September it should be. I'm actually hoping the bedrock is not deep enough to even need it, but if it turns into a "glory hole", I'll do whatever it takes within my budget. I'm not suicidal, just resourceful. I won't be doing this without a tender and only in a couple feet of water. If it works, good. If the hole gets too deep, I'll invest in a better/safer idea.

    Yes, it is kind of two-fold. Extending just the nozzle gets you sucking gravels deeper, but I think you'll be spending more time bringing the nozzle up to clear jams. Even in three feet of water, you need to be close enough to the nozzle to not have to stop every 30 seconds to clear the jams. Just staying close enough to reach the tip of the nozzle is all I'm suggesting. I'm only talking about adding 18", and not breathing your own CO2.
    Making a snorkel extension to add 18" is a very short term fix. Depending on the ground you are in you can dredge through that extra 18" in a couple hours and then be shut down again until you find another way. The hole always gets deeper than you expect, always. Gear up proper now and save the risk, time and expense of the makeshift fixes.

    The point I am trying to make is that once your head goes underwater 1" you are fully involved and completely dependent on your gear and training. If you are working with your 18" snorkel and a big rock rolls and pins your hand and you can stretch and get your nose within 1" of the surface...you still die just as dead as if you were 100 feet down.
    Being resourceful is great but making budget the first criteria of your life safety project is not wise. If you are interested I can help you with some low budget and much safer ideas.
    russau and ratled like this.

  6. #21

    Aug 2015
    527
    1066 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I may take you up on your offer. While I'm working a creek that rarely has more than knee deep water, but has past dredge holes over five feet deep, I doubt I'll ever need to "get deep". There is always that possibility though. My first and likely best option will be to lower the water level in the pool (once it is actually one). Easiest way to do that is to work the downstream gravels and let the water out. By September, I'll running a gravity system, no motors, so needing one just to power an air pump defeats the purpose.

    Nothing will be needed until I get to the bedrock. Just my opinion, extending the nozzle just creates more work when we want to make the job easier. Feel free to follow the journey in the Journals forum.

  7. #22
    us
    Gold & Gem Prospector

    Nov 2012
    Western North Carolina
    Fisher GBII
    219
    168 times
    Prospecting
    Thanks to all suggestions: Here's what I'm probably going to do since I have no experience at all with air and not willing to invest in it at this stage of my life. Add a plastic PVC pipe to end of nozzle long enough to reach area I want to work with a bolt across bottom to help with plugs and possibly use the snorkel I currently have to get my face under the water to help see where I'm working.

  8. #23
    us
    Mine President, XPBC, GIH

    Dec 2013
    Arcata, California
    Fisher 1212-x Fisher Gold Bug 2 Whites 4900/SP3 Rocker boxes, Keene sluices, Bazooka sluice, 2.5", 4" lowbankers, highbankers. Witch Sticks.
    638
    719 times
    Prospecting
    Years ago I tried cutting a chunk off of my pressure hose to my suction nozzle and clamped it onto my snorkel and let me tell you it doesn't work, as mentioned earlier its nearly impossible to suck in a breath as the water pressure will prevent you from expanding your lungs, another problem with Mikes idea is that scuba regulators are designed for high pressure air input and therefor have super small orifices which also makes for issues when converting for hookah use, it would be like sucking air through a cocktail straw even without all that water on your chest. If you want to go deeper than standard snorkel length you need to either hold your breath or get on a hookah system. I have since upgraded to 2" pressure hose to my 2.5" suction nozzle and use the 1.25" hose I used to use as my pressure hose as an extension hose for working cracks, I stuck a piece of PVC pipe into the hose as a reducer ring, take the open end and put it up the nozzle a few inches and tie it off with some wire.
    Last edited by N-Lionberger; May 22, 2018 at 10:47 PM.
    Clay Diggins and Assembler like this.

  9. #24
    us
    Gold & Gem Prospector

    Nov 2012
    Western North Carolina
    Fisher GBII
    219
    168 times
    Prospecting
    This whole area flooded this past week and creek still so high can't get to this area, there is a flood control dam downstream and the discharge is so small it stays backed up for days after a flood. Now 6 days and still can't ford the creek, water still 6-8 ft deep at ford so don't know if this will be an issue now till I see what it did to the stream.

 

 
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