Question about adding extension to 2 1/2" Combo Hibanker/Dredge

[Buckshotnc]

Recent winter floods rearranged some of the stream on my property as to gravel bars, depths etc. I've saw an area between two large rocks exposed that hadn't seen before because it is deeper and it looks like a natural place to catch any gold. The problem is that it's deeper than I can long arm and I don't have air so thought I would ask if anyone had ever tried adding a piece of pvc to the end of nozzle to reach deeper. I would probably need at least 2-3 feet additional and what are your thoughts and/or other suggestions.

 

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[Assembler]

The flow rate of water will go way down. Still may be worth doing in the area you describe.

 

[ratled]

I have seen several guys use PVC to get under boulders they couldn't move. The longest I have seen is 4'but that was on nozzles larger than yours. OVC is cheap, worth the try.

 

[mikep691]

I'm thinking get wet. Snorkel with extended breather, or maybe a snorkel with a two way mouth piece like for scuba.

I'll be in the same situation later this summer...

 

[Bonaro]

I'm thinking get wet. Snorkel with extended breather, or maybe a snorkel with a two way mouth piece like for scuba.

I'll be in the same situation later this summer...

Your idea will work just fine.
By adding an extension to your suction nozzle you are effectively converting it into a power jet. Your flow rates should be relatively unchanged except it takes more HP to pull material from a greater depth but the increase in depth you are making is minimal. Your biggest problem will be because you can no longer prevent oversize rocks from entering by using your hands and you will see a lot of plug-ups and bigger rocks stuck to the end of the nozzle.

Mike601 actually has the best solution. You need to put your resources into being able to breathe underwater so you can be down there where the work is

 

[Bonaro]

The flow rate of water will go way down. Still may be worth doing in the area you describe.

This is wrong, sorry

 

[ratled]

There is a reason you can't buy longer snorkels........

 

[mikep691]

There is a reason you can't buy longer snorkels........

We know you can't breathe in and out through the same tube at depth, but with a scuba type mouth piece, you're only breathing in from the tube, and exhaling into the water. It's not at 20 feet, only a few feet.

 

[Assembler]

We know you can't breathe in and out through the same tube at depth, but with a scuba type mouth piece, you're only breathing in from the tube, and exhaling into the water. It's not at 20 feet, only a few feet.

The flow rate will not be to much loss with the 2-3 ft. talked about here and will still work well enough. Like the idea of getting wet in order to see better where to suction with the hose. You guys dredge and will know more about the details then this one.

 

[Buckshotnc]

Thanks Guys, good info, hadn't thought about the plug ups but probably right but think there is now mostly smaller cobbles down there now so may not be too bad. I have a snorkel but this would be beyond that and as some one else mentioned here not sure it will work that deep so not sure about a extender on snorkel. Will have to experiment to see what works. Worst case, find someone with 4" and air but wanted to do it on my own if possible.

 

[mikep691]

Look for a dive shop near you to find a scuba regulator. These use two one way valves. Instead of a hose going to a tank, it can be a longer flex hose with a larger inside diameter supported above the surface by a small inner tube or, hate to say it at my age, a hemorrhoid donut. If you're not more than a few feet under water, this may be all you need. Of course your other option is use a dredge with air.

you have options depending what your wallet can handle.

 

[CyHawkGold]

You can't use a snorkel with your head even just a foot under water.
It isn't the air pressure in the tube, it's the water pressure against your lungs.
Few humans have the chest muscles to get any air at all into their lungs with their head one foot under, let alone get any work done.

Scuba mouth pieces with valves used with pressurized air actually force the air into your lungs against that water pressure and they automatically adjust to the increased pressure as you go deeper.

It is simple to set up a hookah rig with a diaphragm compressor and scuba mouthpiece but get scuba training before you try it.

Little things can kill you.

Laying on the bottom of a swimming pool, breathing with a hookah rig, then simply holding your breath and standing up can put an air embolism into your blood stream and kill you, or maybe just cripple you.

It has been a while since I was certified but I do remember that much.
I got certified at the Y, the YMCA, when it was still separate.

A larger corrugated tube wouldn't work better, it would collapse from the water pressure.

Use some common sense people and stay safe.

Good luck.

 

[CyHawkGold]

Hey Buckshot,

Sounds worth trying.

Just put a nozzle on the end of the extension with a smaller opening, maybe a wire or bolt across it and that should stop any plugs in the pipe.

Big rocks stuck to the end may be able to be nocked loose with your toe.

I'm assuming you are able to work it and keep your head above water.

Wearing a mask with snorkel would enable you to get your face in the water and see what's happening if the water is clear enough.

Good luck.

 

[Buckshotnc]

Hey Buckshot,

Sounds worth trying.

Just put a nozzle on the end of the extension with a smaller opening, maybe a wire or bolt across it and that should stop any plugs in the pipe.

Big rocks stuck to the end may be able to be nocked loose with your toe.

I'm assuming you are able to work it and keep your head above water.

Wearing a mask with snorkel would enable you to get your face in the water and see what's happening if the water is clear enough.

Good luck.

Thanks Hawk, good info, think I'll try what you said first. Nothing like trial and error.

 

[mikep691]

We can agree to disagree. One foot, three feet, maybe five feet is not pressure that a human can not breathe at. Absolutely 10 to 20 feet, then forget my idea. I'll be doing my way this summer. If it doesn't work, I won't be back to tell you....

Film in September...

 

[CyHawkGold]

Yes Mike,

We'll have to agree to disagree.
I don't know where you get your information but I do know that you have never tried to breathe thru a plain hose five feet deep. I am definitely saying that it is definitely impossible for you to do so. If you try it, try it in a pool with someone standing by in case you suck in too much water when you try to suck in air thru the hose.

Everything on Earth has weight. We don't notice the air we breathe having weight until a windstorm, then it pushes us around.

Even still air has weight. At sea level the air stacked up all the way to outer space weighes approximately 14.7 pounds per square inch (psi). We don't notice it because it pushes on all sides/parts of us equally.
No matter what elevation we're at the pressure is equal on all parts of us.
At Denver, CO the pressure is less so water boils easier and athletes have a harder time competing when they first get there.

When one goes below sea level the air gets denser (or heavier) yet. But when one goes below water you have to add the weight of the water as well.
For every 33' down the pressure increases one atmosphere or 14.7 psi.

If you had a beaker one inch square and six feet tall set on a scale, zero it out, then added water to the five foot mark, you would find that it weighed approx. 2.167 lbs.

Now, if you were five foot under water you would have 2.167 lbs of extra pressure on every square inch of your body. We won't count the extra pressure you would have on the bottom side if you were laying horizontal. You can pour more water into the beaker to equal the thickness of your chest to find out.

That's 2 lbs on your entire body, not just your torso. But we'll just figure part of the torso area. Many sizes of people of course but we'll just figure one sample.

Say a healthy young man with a 42" chest. We'll round that down to 40" and measure up from his belly button 12" to have a cylinder with 480 sq in surface, that adds up to over 1040 lbs of pressure on his chest to overcome to take a breath.

I don't see it happening.

Good luck Mike

 

[Bonaro]

It seems like we are commenting on two topics here. Extending a snorkel tube so you can breathe underwater a little deeper and extending a nozzle tube so you can suction gravel deeper.

Regarding the air snorkel...Yes you can add an extension and even float it on the surface with a hemorrhoid doughnut . It will work down to about 3 feet and I will happily pay you cash money to be able to take some video of this.
HOWEVER, you need to take a reality pill here before you start going DIY on this. Being and working underwater is a exercise in survival. You are in a hostile environment that will quickly kill you if your life support equipment fails you. Are you seriously willing to risk your life with a chunk of garden hose and a hemorrhoid doughnut? Before you put your head underwater...get some training and only use equipment designed and built for this purpose.

 

[mikep691]

At this point the hole is not developed enough to need an extension. By September it should be. I'm actually hoping the bedrock is not deep enough to even need it, but if it turns into a "glory hole", I'll do whatever it takes within my budget. I'm not suicidal, just resourceful. I won't be doing this without a tender and only in a couple feet of water. If it works, good. If the hole gets too deep, I'll invest in a better/safer idea.

Yes, it is kind of two-fold. Extending just the nozzle gets you sucking gravels deeper, but I think you'll be spending more time bringing the nozzle up to clear jams. Even in three feet of water, you need to be close enough to the nozzle to not have to stop every 30 seconds to clear the jams. Just staying close enough to reach the tip of the nozzle is all I'm suggesting. I'm only talking about adding 18", and not breathing your own CO2.

 

[CyHawkGold]

There is a reason you can't buy longer snorkels........

This says it all.

And it's not because the manufacturers are too cheap to change their molds.


I've said enough, I'm done, goodbye.


Have fun everyone!

 

[Bonaro]

At this point the hole is not developed enough to need an extension. By September it should be. I'm actually hoping the bedrock is not deep enough to even need it, but if it turns into a "glory hole", I'll do whatever it takes within my budget. I'm not suicidal, just resourceful. I won't be doing this without a tender and only in a couple feet of water. If it works, good. If the hole gets too deep, I'll invest in a better/safer idea.

Yes, it is kind of two-fold. Extending just the nozzle gets you sucking gravels deeper, but I think you'll be spending more time bringing the nozzle up to clear jams. Even in three feet of water, you need to be close enough to the nozzle to not have to stop every 30 seconds to clear the jams. Just staying close enough to reach the tip of the nozzle is all I'm suggesting. I'm only talking about adding 18", and not breathing your own CO2.

Making a snorkel extension to add 18" is a very short term fix. Depending on the ground you are in you can dredge through that extra 18" in a couple hours and then be shut down again until you find another way. The hole always gets deeper than you expect, always. Gear up proper now and save the risk, time and expense of the makeshift fixes.

The point I am trying to make is that once your head goes underwater 1" you are fully involved and completely dependent on your gear and training. If you are working with your 18" snorkel and a big rock rolls and pins your hand and you can stretch and get your nose within 1" of the surface...you still die just as dead as if you were 100 feet down.
Being resourceful is great but making budget the first criteria of your life safety project is not wise. If you are interested I can help you with some low budget and much safer ideas.