Quit Claims and the BLM.

[Rail Dawg]

The BLM as we know will accept a COL without checking to see if it over-claims another claim.

However does this apply to Quit Claims?

If a person tries to file a Quit Claim on a claim they don’t own will this flag with the BLM and be rejected?

There’s a situation occurring on the claim next to us and am trying to learn from the experience of others.

Thanks.

Chuck

 

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[Bonaro]

The way I understand it is the BLM is basically a filing agency and does not verify the accuracy of any documents but they will happily take your money. I did have the BLM contact me once about a claim I filed but it was because there was an error in my legal description. Any conflicts become a civil matter

Clay?

 

[Goldwasher]

I guess it would be up to the person who didn't sign a quit claim, to find out his claim was quit without his signature?

Not done legally so it wouldn't allow the new filing to be valid?

The only person who can file a quit claim is the person(s) who have the claim in the first place.

 

[Clay Diggins]

A quitclaim does not necessarily transfer any property. With a quitclaim the grantor is only transferring their interest in the claim. A quitclaim should never be considered to be a transfer of all rights in a claim. Things like leases, loans, commercial liens, partners and mining agreements can give other people an interest in the claim that is not being transferred with the quitclaim. Without real research on what you are buying a quitclaim is a pig in a poke.

Here is an excerpt from Legal Zoom:

A quitclaim deed contains no warranties of title at all. The quitclaim deed only operates to convey to the seller's interest in the property to the buyer. This means that if a seller owns a building, he can give a quitclaim deed to the buyer and the seller's entire interest has been transferred.

Because a quitclaim only operates to convey a legal interest in the property, a quitclaim given out by a person who does not actually own the property named in the deed will not be liable for any damages at law. There are no breached covenants because no covenants were created. The deed is just a valueless piece of paper and nothing is transferred.

With a quitclaim it's legally up to the buyer to find out just what they are buying.

Heavy Pans

 

[Rail Dawg]

The claim next to us was sold but the BLM rejected the quitclaim.

Not too sure why.

There were BLM forfeiture/closed codes on LR2000 on the previous claim owner but now it shows the 2018 maintenance fee being paid by them.

The guy that claimed it after the previous owner sold it but his quitclaim was rejected.

Interesting to follow.

Thanks Clay for the lesson. I always learn from you and others.

 

[Assembler]

"Improvements" are separate from the "Mineral deposits".

The term "Plat", as employed technically, refers to the drawing which represents the line surveyed, established, retraced, or resurveyed, showing the direction and length of each of such lines; the relation to the adjoining official surveys; the boundaries............

This is why the BLM did not "Recognize" etc.

 

[Clay Diggins]

The claim next to us was sold but the BLM rejected the quitclaim.

Not too sure why.

There were BLM forfeiture/closed codes on LR2000 on the previous claim owner but now it shows the 2018 maintenance fee being paid by them.

The guy that claimed it after the previous owner sold it but his quitclaim was rejected.

Interesting to follow.

Thanks Clay for the lesson. I always learn from you and others.

The BLM can't reject a quitclaim. A quitclaim is a legal recorded document.

The BLM relies on the concept of an administrative "transfer of interest" in the mining case file. Sometimes people transfer a mining claim by means of a quitclaim and in most cases the BLM will accept a copy of the recorded quitclaim to notify them of a "transfer of interest".

If the quitclaim sent to the BLM in lieu of a declaration of a transfer of interest has defects like -
Claim owner name is wrong.
Not all claimants have signed and notarized the quitclaim.
Claim name is wrong.
Claim legal land description is wrong.
Quitclaim is unrecorded.
- They may decline to consider the quitclaim copy filed into the case folder to be sufficient to effect a transfer of interest.

This "Transfer of Interest" thing is a touchy subject for the BLM. The courts have declared that the BLM has to accept just about anything from the claim owner as a transfer of interest but if the claim status is in administrative limbo or the details of the transfer are suspect they can't effect a transfer. Tightrope for them and the miner.

Sounds like the claim situation there was kind of up in the air. The fact that a previous claim owner is now paying fees could mean nothing (the BLM likes money) or it could be that the previous owner challenged the closure and won. You need to dig deep on these cases to really understand why stuff happens.

Look up all the action codes on the claim's Serial Register Page and track down any actions or decisions and you will probably know more than the owner does.

Heavy Pans

 

[winners58]

I've seen claims closed that were sold when BLM found the previous owner had gone over 10 claims six months before
and did not qualify for the small miners exemption, the reasoning was the problem was not fixed before it was transferred.
since the responsibility was with original "owner of record" the only recourse would to be file a new claim.

 

[Assembler]

The BLM can't reject a quitclaim. A quitclaim is a legal recorded document.

The BLM relies on the concept of an administrative "transfer of interest" in the mining case file. Sometimes people transfer a mining claim by means of a quitclaim and in most cases the BLM will accept a copy of the recorded quitclaim to notify them of a "transfer of interest".

If the quitclaim sent to the BLM in lieu of a declaration of a transfer of interest has defects like -
Claim owner name is wrong.
Not all claimants have signed and notarized the quitclaim.
Claim name is wrong.
Claim legal land description is wrong.
Quitclaim is unrecorded.
- They may decline to consider the quitclaim copy filed into the case folder to be sufficient to effect a transfer of interest.

This "Transfer of Interest" thing is a touchy subject for the BLM. The courts have declared that the BLM has to accept just about anything from the claim owner as a transfer of interest but if the claim status is in administrative limbo or the details of the transfer are suspect they can't effect a transfer. Tightrope for them and the miner.

Sounds like the claim situation there was kind of up in the air. The fact that a previous claim owner is now paying fees could mean nothing (the BLM likes money) or it could be that the previous owner challenged the closure and won. You need to dig deep on these cases to really understand why stuff happens.

Look up all the action codes on the claim's Serial Register Page and track down any actions or decisions and you will probably know more than the owner does.

Heavy Pans

A "Interest in improvements" is separate from a "Claim of a Mineral deposits" within the "Lands".

 

[Rail Dawg]

"Improvements" are separate from the "Mineral deposits".


This is why the BLM did not "Recognize" etc.

I don’t understand how this has anything to do with a quitclaim Assembler.

Improvements? Mineral Deposits?

 

[Assembler]

I don’t understand how this has anything to do with a quitclaim Assembler.

Improvements? Mineral Deposits?

Upon acceptance of the survey by the Director, BLM, it may be termed officially established or completed, and accordingly it does not attain official or legal status until thus completed.
BLM's own wording.

 

[Bejay]

I had a dispute with the BLM over a "Power of Attorney" issue. I had a legal recorded power of attorney, to handle the annual claim docs/filings on a joint claim I held with three other individuals: (we all lived in separate states). All of a sudden the new BLM administrator decided that the PA needed to be redone each and every year (not according to the State Laws tho). Anyway we all decided to let the claim go after the BLM sent notice we had 30 days to correct the error they decided we had!..... (P of A crud). In the interim time (30 day resolve period) I quit claimed the claim to another interested LDMA party. The BLM refused to accept the quit claim because they said I did not have the power to initiate the action by myself and by then the 30 day resolve period had expired. Long story short: The party I attempted to quit claim the claim to had to do a complete re-location/refile/record.

One never knows when dealing with the BLM....they come up with new crud all the time.

Bejay

 

[Rail Dawg]

Upon acceptance of the survey by the Director, BLM, it may be termed officially established or completed, and accordingly it does not attain official or legal status until thus completed.
BLM's own wording.

Yes but my question about a quitclaim has absolutely nothing to do with a survey, an improvement nor mineral deposits.

Nothing.

Take a look at Clay’s, Bejay’s, winner’s, Goldwasher’s or Bonaro’s answers and you can see that they addressed directly the question I was asking.

How you took it into the weeds by discussing surveys and mineral deposits is confusing to me.

I’m here to ask questions and learn but not go off on some crazy tangent.

Thanks Assembler.

 

[Rail Dawg]

I had a dispute with the BLM over a "Power of Attorney" issue. I had a legal recorded power of attorney, to handle the annual claim docs/filings on a joint claim I held with three other individuals: (we all lived in separate states). All of a sudden the new BLM administrator decided that the PA needed to be redone each and every year (not according to the State Laws tho). Anyway we all decided to let the claim go after the BLM sent notice we had 30 days to correct the error they decided we had!..... (P of A crud). In the interim time (30 day resolve period) I quit claimed the claim to another interested LDMA party. The BLM refused to accept the quit claim because they said I did not have the power to initiate the action by myself and by then the 30 day resolve period had expired. Long story short: The party I attempted to quit claim the claim to had to do a complete re-location/refile/record.

One never knows when dealing with the BLM....they come up with new crud all the time.

Bejay

In Rye Patch my claim neighbor has been going through a yearly battle with the Power of Attorney issue.

I’ve kept our claims with my brother but we keep the claims in only his or my name to keep it simple.

I’ll bet the yearly filing of a P of A is a major hassle!

 

[Assembler]

Yes but my question about a quitclaim has absolutely nothing to do with a survey, an improvement nor mineral deposits.

Nothing.

Take a look at Clay’s, Bejay’s, winner’s, Goldwasher’s or Bonaro’s answers and you can see that they addressed directly the question I was asking.

How you took it into the weeds by discussing surveys and mineral deposits is confusing to me.

I’m here to ask questions and learn but not go off on some crazy tangent.

Thanks Assembler.

As asked by your second question:

If a person tries to file a Quit Claim on a claim they don’t own will this flag with the BLM and be rejected?

Apples and oranges as the "BLM" will not "Recognize" both as "Official or legal status" by "BLM's" own words.
You are correct that the "Quitclaim has absolutely nothing to do with a survey nor mineral deposits" and "BLM" knows this very well.

The "Quit Claim deed" will have an effect of 'Transferring interests' of the "Improvements".

 

[Assembler]

"Improvements" has little to nothing to do with "Mineral deposits and Plats".
One has a foundation based in "Mining law" the other has little to nothing to do with "Mining law".

 

[Rail Dawg]

"Improvements" has little to nothing to do with "Mineral deposits and Plats".
One has a foundation based in "Mining law" the other has little to nothing to do with "Mining law".

And this relates to a quitclaim at the BLM... how?

Listening but not understanding the drift.

 

[Assembler]

"There’s a situation occurring on the claim next to us and am trying to learn from the experience of others".
Keep us posted on what you learn.

There is no 'Drift' with BLM.

 

[winners58]

Assembler, maybe you could improve your perception of the written word
by studying Homonyms, Homophones, antonyms, and synonyms
Get the Drift
Homophones
Interrelationship of Words
.

 

[Goldwasher]

it would be nice if the mods caught on and got rid of "it"