corner post coordinates??
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  1. #1
    us
    May 2011
    tujunga ca
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    corner post coordinates??

    is there a place i can find the corner post coordinates,for mining claims.ive found some map that have coordinates for one corner,the discovery post or the center.i would like to mark them on my gps before i go out there. near randsburug ca. you cant see them because of the terrain.
    ps its still nice out there from 5a to 10am.
    thanks brad

  2. #2
    us
    May 2014
    AZ
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    I just stay away from the quarter sections that have claims in them. Too lazy to go to the county recorder to look them up.
    Hangtowndiggins likes this.
    If it can't be grown, it must be mined!

  3. #3
    us
    May 2011
    tujunga ca
    xlt mxt gmz whites
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    is it true that they run north and south ,east and west at true n not magnetnic north? 12 degrees?
    thanks brad

  4. #4
    us
    May 2014
    AZ
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    Mark the section corners and quarter intersects and just stay away from the quarter sections that have claims in them. You can get those coordinates by using http://www.mylandmatters.org/. I do that rather than going to the county recorder to look them up.
    Last edited by arizau; Jun 06, 2018 at 06:47 PM.
    1637 likes this.
    If it can't be grown, it must be mined!

  5. #5
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2010
    The Great Southwest
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    Mining claims are located by aliquot part (legal land description) or by metes and bounds (compass direction and distance). There are no lat/lon or GPS coordinates in mining claim location. If you do see lat/lon on a location notice it would only be an "aid" and can't be relied on.

    Go to the county recorder and get copies of the original location notices. From that information you can transfer the legal land description or direction and distance onto a topo map.

    Heavy Pans

  6. #6
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
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    A quarter section has 160 acres.... if it has a 20 acre claim there is still 140 acres available (if its public land)

    yes you need to sort out what's claimed and whats not using the location description at the county..

    I'm always interested in quarter sections with one or two small claims listed.

    Good way to find good open ground....missed by the "lazy" guys..


    just teasin AZ

  7. #7
    us
    May 2014
    AZ
    Beach High Banker, Sweep Jig, Whippet Dry Washer, Lobo ST, 1/2 width 2 tray Gold Cube, numerous pans, rocker box, and home made fluid bed and stream sluices.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    A quarter section has 160 acres.... if it has a 20 acre claim there is still 140 acres available (if its public land)

    yes you need to sort out what's claimed and whats not using the location description at the county..

    I'm always interested in quarter sections with one or two small claims listed.

    Good way to find good open ground....missed by the "lazy" guys..


    just teasin AZ
    My type of humor but "lazy"(?), also true.

    My case: I discovered a unique situation that gives me over a section of historically productive ground to prospect unimpeded by claims since it is now closed to mineral entry. It is relatively close by and dry so I hike in my drywasher. So far "nuttin but cows" to contend with. For others not so lazy, you just have to learn how to and do the research at the county offices!
    Last edited by arizau; Jun 07, 2018 at 11:58 AM. Reason: Too wordy but got caught in the middle of trying to edit it so original post is shown below in Kevin's post.
    If it can't be grown, it must be mined!

  8. #8
    us
    Author of a book about finding gold in Colorado

    Jan 2012
    Summit County, Colorado
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    Quote Originally Posted by arizau View Post
    My type of humor but "lazy"(?), also true. I on the other hand have the rare good fortune of having the availability of over a section of, historically, some of the most productive ground in the district (less than 10 square miles in total) now being closed to mineral entry. That, in my case, is a welcome exception. The closed to claiming land and otherwise "adjacent quarters without claims" land gives me plenty of territory to cover. For others not so fortunate, you just have to learn how to and do the research at the county offices!
    Much of what cannot be claimed can still be dug! (Basis for my whole book)

    To the OP: in addition to the individual county clerk/recorder offices, you also have the option of going to the State BLM office. They will also have copies of claim maps although very recent claims may still be on the way into their files.

  9. #9
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2010
    The Great Southwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by arizau View Post
    I just stay away from the quarter sections that have claims in them.
    That can backfire on you arizau. The quarter section the BLM references the claim to may not be the area where the bulk of the claim is located. It can be a little hard to understand a wordy explanation of why this is so I made up a little graphic of this fairly common situation.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2018-06-07 at 9.22.37 AM.png 
Views:	46 
Size:	56.9 KB 
ID:	1599324

    This is an actual claim mapped in Arizona - one of hundreds that cross over Section and/or Township lines. You will notice that this now closed claim is across 3 sections (black lines) and two townships (blue lines). The entire claim is 600 feet X 1500 feet (20.66 acres). The largest part of the claim lies in 11N 1W Section 36. The second largest portion of the claim lies in the same Township but in Section 25. Just a little bit of the claim (about a quarter acre) lies in Township 11N 1E Section 30. Wanna guess which Township and Section the BLM references the claim to? Yep that smallest portion in the other Township is where the BLM will tell you the claim is located.

    You would assume, if you are going by the BLM quarter section designation, that 11N 1E SW Section 30 was claimed and the other two sections were not.

    There are at least a few 20 acre claims in Arizona that cover the corner of 4 Townships and 4 Sections. Only one of those 4 Townships and 4 Sections will be considered to be where the claim is located according to the BLM files. If you search the LR2000 for the other 3 Townships and Sections the result would show no claims there although the Serial Register page for each claim will show the different Sections and Townships.

    The BLM is working to fix this problem but the results have been mixed so far so don't expect a reliable working system anytime real soon. From what I understand it's on the list of "fixes" but it's pretty far down that list.

    One solution to the problem is to check all adjacent sections claims serial register pages. That takes a while but it can be very informative. I usually run a block of 9 Sections to check the claims placed by the BLM in any single section. That eliminates the possibility of missing crossovers and will give you a pretty good idea of groups that are claiming and the age of claims in the area, all good info to put in your research files before you spend time getting the County Location records for the claims in your area of interest.

    If you are prospecting in most Arizona Counties you can get copies of the original location notices and maps as a free download online. It's an extra step that will reveal the errors that always seem to be a part of BLM case files as well as allowing you to know with some precision just what areas are claimed.

    On the Land Matters Mining Claim maps we've gone to a mapping system where a claim gets assigned to every Section it's found in. That requires a lot more server space and time to create but we hope it will help researchers. The example in the illustration above would be mapped to three sections and 2 Townships at Land Matters. Also a little misleading but a valuable heads up about claim crossovers to the clever researcher.

    Heavy Pans

  10. #10
    us
    May 2014
    AZ
    Beach High Banker, Sweep Jig, Whippet Dry Washer, Lobo ST, 1/2 width 2 tray Gold Cube, numerous pans, rocker box, and home made fluid bed and stream sluices.
    2,075
    2988 times
    Prospecting
    Woo. Maybe(?) I am safe since land matters is what I depend on. Quoting you: "On the Land Matters Mining Claim maps we've gone to a mapping system where a claim gets assigned to every Section it's found in. That requires a lot more server space and time to create but we hope it will help researchers."

    Thanks for the enlightenment.
    Last edited by arizau; Jun 07, 2018 at 01:16 PM.
    Clay Diggins likes this.
    If it can't be grown, it must be mined!

  11. #11
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, ACME handbook for TRUE prospectors (unread)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Diggins View Post
    That can backfire on you arizau. The quarter section the BLM references the claim to may not be the area where the bulk of the claim is located. It can be a little hard to understand a wordy explanation of why this is so I made up a little graphic of this fairly common situation.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2018-06-07 at 9.22.37 AM.png 
Views:	46 
Size:	56.9 KB 
ID:	1599324

    This is an actual claim mapped in Arizona - one of hundreds that cross over Section and/or Township lines. You will notice that this now closed claim is across 3 sections (black lines) and two townships (blue lines). The entire claim is 600 feet X 1500 feet (20.66 acres). The largest part of the claim lies in 11N 1W Section 36. The second largest portion of the claim lies in the same Township but in Section 25. Just a little bit of the claim (about a quarter acre) lies in Township 11N 1E Section 30. Wanna guess which Township and Section the BLM references the claim to? Yep that smallest portion in the other Township is where the BLM will tell you the claim is located.

    You would assume, if you are going by the BLM quarter section designation, that 11N 1E SW Section 30 was claimed and the other two sections were not.

    There are at least a few 20 acre claims in Arizona that cover the corner of 4 Townships and 4 Sections. Only one of those 4 Townships and 4 Sections will be considered to be where the claim is located according to the BLM files. If you search the LR2000 for the other 3 Townships and Sections the result would show no claims there although the Serial Register page for each claim will show the different Sections and Townships.

    The BLM is working to fix this problem but the results have been mixed so far so don't expect a reliable working system anytime real soon. From what I understand it's on the list of "fixes" but it's pretty far down that list.

    One solution to the problem is to check all adjacent sections claims serial register pages. That takes a while but it can be very informative. I usually run a block of 9 Sections to check the claims placed by the BLM in any single section. That eliminates the possibility of missing crossovers and will give you a pretty good idea of groups that are claiming and the age of claims in the area, all good info to put in your research files before you spend time getting the County Location records for the claims in your area of interest.

    If you are prospecting in most Arizona Counties you can get copies of the original location notices and maps as a free download online. It's an extra step that will reveal the errors that always seem to be a part of BLM case files as well as allowing you to know with some precision just what areas are claimed.

    On the Land Matters Mining Claim maps we've gone to a mapping system where a claim gets assigned to every Section it's found in. That requires a lot more server space and time to create but we hope it will help researchers. The example in the illustration above would be mapped to three sections and 2 Townships at Land Matters. Also a little misleading but a valuable heads up about claim crossovers to the clever researcher.

    Heavy Pans
    I started teaching a class on using MLM to do claims research and what to do with the info found. As well as the claims process.

    had a client in just a little bit ago.

    We came across the very same thing I showed him how you couldn't tell from the on line file but, could look by checking the adjacent quarters ans see if the claim over lapped the lines.

    while poking around in the nearby sections we found several large claims like two 80 acre a 120 acre and I think 160

    All with only two locators.

    Barry If i remember correctly you can't buy a claim with less locators than needed right?

    It's always one locator per 20 even when you buy a claim right?

  12. #12
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2010
    The Great Southwest
    3,539
    10274 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    I started teaching a class on using MLM to do claims research and what to do with the info found. As well as the claims process.

    had a client in just a little bit ago.

    We came across the very same thing I showed him how you couldn't tell from the on line file but, could look by checking the adjacent quarters ans see if the claim over lapped the lines.

    while poking around in the nearby sections we found several large claims like two 80 acre a 120 acre and I think 160

    All with only two locators.

    Barry If i remember correctly you can't buy a claim with less locators than needed right?

    It's always one locator per 20 even when you buy a claim right?
    If an existing placer claim of any size has a proven discovery it can be sold to one person. If the discovery, which the claim is based on, has not been proven the 20 acres per claimant still applies.

    In most states transfers of placer claims that are more than 20 acres to one person will be challenged by the BLM within a month or two. They will send the claim owners a notice to provide proof of the discovery or reduce the claim to 20 acres per claimant.

    In California they are years behind on their claim work and can barely keep basic claim files. California may never get around to challenging those claims even though the whole process for them is just three form letters.

    And before you ask - No you can not independently determine whether the claim's mineral discovery has been proven.

    Heavy Pans
    Bejay likes this.

  13. #13
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
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    Three claims in one section all over 80 acres transfer from proper associated claims to the same two people on all three.

    The have been filing smw on them for like ten years

    would the proof of discovery challenge show up on the registry if it had happened and it was deemed that all potions had the gold. or that the proper amendments in location size had been changed?

    Just curious. Not gonna act on it. I was just showing the guy all the randomness you can discover when looking into claims.

    What kind of proof of discovery to they look for/trust especially if they are leaving it up to the new owner?
    Hangtowndiggins likes this.

  14. #14
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2010
    The Great Southwest
    3,539
    10274 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    Three claims in one section all over 80 acres transfer from proper associated claims to the same two people on all three.

    The have been filing smw on them for like ten years

    would the proof of discovery challenge show up on the registry if it had happened and it was deemed that all potions had the gold. or that the proper amendments in location size had been changed?

    Just curious. Not gonna act on it. I was just showing the guy all the randomness you can discover when looking into claims.

    What kind of proof of discovery to they look for/trust especially if they are leaving it up to the new owner?
    The demand for proof and the response would show up on the Serial Register page. If there was no response or proof provided the claim would be closed. The owners do have the choice of reducing their claim to 20 acres per claimant if they can't provide proof of discovery.

    Proof of discovery rests on the Prudent Man rule and it's subset the Marketability test. That's all pretty well established in law and in practice.

    Heavy Pans

  15. #15
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, ACME handbook for TRUE prospectors (unread)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Diggins View Post
    The demand for proof and the response would show up on the Serial Register page. If there was no response or proof provided the claim would be closed. The owners do have the choice of reducing their claim to 20 acres per claimant if they can't provide proof of discovery.

    Proof of discovery rests on the Prudent Man rule and it's subset the Marketability test. That's all pretty well established in law and in practice.

    Heavy Pans

    thats what I figured I just didn't know if blm left it up to the new claimant to basically say.."gold... oh yea we got it and its everywhere... now leave us alone"

    and no nothing in the registry after transfer of interest

    just smw and aoe

 

 
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