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Thread: Small Claims Court - Top Filers

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  1. #16
    us
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    Olympia WA
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    Im not sure why you want to take him to court. What do you expect the court to do for you?
    He filed his claim improperly in two ways
    1. He did not file with the County so the claim in invalid. I would call the BLM and ask them if they will invalidate on that basis and you are done.
    2 It was impossible for him to file a valid claim. He was not able to make a discovery because your existing claim prevented him from prospecting. This is probably why he didn't file a Notice of Discovery with the county, because he didnt do it.

    The minute he enters your claim to prospect, set posts or work the mine in any way he is guilty of Mineral Trespass, call the sheriff.

    If it were me I would call or write him to inform him of these facts
    Rail Dawg and rodoconnor like this.

  2. #17
    us
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonaro View Post
    Im not sure why you want to take him to court. What do you expect the court to do for you?
    He filed his claim improperly in two ways
    1. He did not file with the County so the claim in invalid. I would call the BLM and ask them if they will invalidate on that basis and you are done.
    2 It was impossible for him to file a valid claim. He was not able to make a discovery because your existing claim prevented him from prospecting. This is probably why he didn't file a Notice of Discovery with the county, because he didnt do it.

    The minute he enters your claim to prospect, set posts or work the mine in any way he is guilty of Mineral Trespass, call the sheriff.

    If it were me I would call or write him to inform him of these facts

    Good points. The letter to him from us goes out today certified mail.

    The legal option is the final option and will serve notice that top-filing wont be tolerated.

    When the court rules in our favor we will then be armed with a judgment that can be shown to the sheriff should it go that far.

    Were thinking however the letter should do the trick.

    Again good points.
    Goldwasher likes this.

  3. #18
    us
    May 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Diggins View Post
    It's strictly a civil matter. The Sheriff has no role. It's a private property dispute.

    The proper court for claims disputes is always the first court of record. Small claims is not a court of record.

    In most States the District Court is the first court of record. Nevada may be different, you will need to check out the proper venue in which to file.

    If the junior locators are actively working the claim you may be able to move your case up to within a few days of filing, otherwise you will have to wait like everyone else.

    Make sure you can prove that you notified the junior locator of their error and left them enough time to mitigate their error. Courts don't like being asked to settle a dispute before the parties have made a genuine effort to settle the matter themselves first.

    Bring the law and the facts to court with you. You can't expect the Judge to rule on laws that he doesn't have Judicial Notice of and if you don't provide proof of the facts specific to the case the Judge won't be inclined to rule in your favor. The case is yours to make - that's not the duty of the Judge or the Court.

    Once you have a judgement if the junior locators don't remove their claim in a timely manner then the Sheriff can help you enforce the order of the court.

    Heavy Pans

    Thank you that makes more sense. Considering it's not about money.

    So, local superior court?

    What exactly are you petitioning the court with?

    A motion.. cease and desist order?

    I've sued twice and won in small claims I figured it was the same sort of thing.

    But.. that was in a county that only had one courthouse...so, everything happens at one place.
    Rail Dawg likes this.

  4. #19
    us
    Oct 2015
    Northern Nevada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    Thank you that makes more sense. Considering it's not about money.

    So, local superior court?

    What exactly are you petitioning the court with?

    A motion.. cease and desist order?

    I've sued twice and won in small claims I figured it was the same sort of thing.

    But.. that was in a county that only had one courthouse...so, everything happens at one place.
    We’re learning too which is good. Just the next step in becoming a well-rounded miner.

    We believe in Nevada it will be in the local district court although we just lined up a good local attorney well-versed in mining claim disputes. He’ll give us the guidance on where and how to file if/when needed.

    Will post on here the process.

  5. #20
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonaro View Post
    Im not sure why you want to take him to court. What do you expect the court to do for you?
    He filed his claim improperly in two ways
    1. He did not file with the County so the claim in invalid. I would call the BLM and ask them if they will invalidate on that basis and you are done.

    The minute he enters your claim to prospect, set posts or work the mine in any way he is guilty of Mineral Trespass, call the sheriff.
    You really can't expect the BLM to help in this matter Bonaro. I've given you the mining law that prohibits claimants from involving the government in their claim disputes.

    Here is the entire text of the 1865 Mining Act again.
    That no possessory action between individuals in any of the courts of the United States for the recovery of any mining title, or for damages to any such title, shall be affected by the fact that the paramount title to the land on which such mines are, is in the United States, but each case shall be adjudged by the law of possession.
    If that's difficult to understand or you, like others, believe old laws don't apply here is a much more recent decision where the BLM got their rears chewed for even suggesting that a disputed claim might be properly located.

    Robert O'Day 2013

    The BLM can not close a claim case file or "invalidate" a mining claim because of a dispute between claimants. The BLM does not work for claimants. They are a surface management agency - they do not manage your mineral rights.

    Once an adverse claim (overclaim) has been made the Sheriff can not interfere. It's entirely up to the claimants, or ultimately the courts, to settle their dispute. It's a civil matter. That's what the law says and that's what the Sheriff will tell you if you ask him to intervene. Please don't bother the Sheriff with civil disputes, you may actually need his help on your claim some day and false alarms could make the Sheriff reluctant to deal with you and other claimants needing help.

    Once Rail Dawg has a court order he can take that to the BLM and they will close the adverse claims case file because the court has adjudicated the civil matter in his favor. Even the BLM has to obey a court order. If the overclaimer persists after the judgement the Sheriff can help too.

    Heavy Pans
    Last edited by Clay Diggins; Jun 13, 2018 at 01:59 PM.
    wildminer and Rail Dawg like this.

  6. #21
    us
    Mar 2003
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    When a chain and lock is used i just cut chain and add a lock. Lousy deal now as legal issues as this are ungodly to unravel. Try to talk it out as all other means takes much time and money-bummer-John

  7. #22
    us
    Oct 2015
    Northern Nevada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Diggins View Post
    You really can't expect the BLM to help in this matter Bonaro. I've given you the mining law that prohibits claimants from involving the government in their claim disputes.

    Here is the entire text of the 1865 Mining Act again.


    If that's difficult to understand or you, like others, believe old laws don't apply here is a much more recent decision where the BLM got their rears chewed for even suggesting that a disputed claim might be properly located.

    Robert O'Day 2013

    The BLM can not close a claim case file or "invalidate" a mining claim because of a dispute between claimants. The BLM does not work for claimants. They are a surface management agency - they do not manage your mineral rights.

    Once an adverse claim (overclaim) has been made the Sheriff can not interfere. It's entirely up to the claimants, or ultimately the courts, to settle their dispute. It's a civil matter. That's what the law says and that's what the Sheriff will tell you if you ask him to intervene. Please don't bother the Sheriff with civil disputes, you may actually need his help on your claim some day and false alarms could make the Sheriff reluctant to deal with you and other claimants needing help.

    Once Rail Dawg has a court order he can take that to the BLM and they will close the adverse claims case file because the court has adjudicated the civil matter in his favor. If the overclaimer persists after the judgement the Sheriff can help too.

    Heavy Pans

    Clay Diggins (Barry) the biggest compliment I can give you is that I strive to one day be as wise and knowledgeable about mining land and law as you.

    I can’t give a higher compliment. We are lucky to have you here guiding us.

    Chuck
    Last edited by Rail Dawg; Jun 13, 2018 at 12:31 PM.

  8. #23

    Aug 2012
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    So I have a question Clay and Rail Dawg.

    Can you hunt on BLM land?
    Quote Originally Posted by G.I.B. View Post
    I'm not an Idiot Whisperer. I can't help you any further with the math.

  9. #24
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2010
    The Great Southwest
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    The State controls hunting Oddjob. The Public lands are open to hunting except where there has been a closure that prohibits hunting. Those type of closures are rare but wildlife ACECs and wildlife refuges can prohibit or limit hunting. The State is the ultimate entity that controls hunting in almost all situations on Federal managed lands including BLM and Forest Service.

    For example, in the Gila wilderness some areas have both bow and black powder hunting seasons for trophy bull elk but you can't take an elk cow by any method. Other areas nearby are wide open to whatever the regular hunting season permits. Both of those hunting regimes are controlled by the State.

    The Feds control the take, method and seasons on some kinds of migratory waterfowl but ungulates and non endangered wildlife are whatever the State permits.

    As an example of State powers over hunting when the Mexican wolf was "reintroduced" to the Gila wilderness all the transplanted wolves were killed when they decided to eat our livestock. The feds were real upset that the wolves didn't go vegan or stick to trying to eat wildlife and there were lots of threats to us from the Feds but State law gives owners the right to kill any animal that is preying on their livestock. In the end the Feds went away and so did the wolves. No permits were needed and no fines were possible.


    Heavy Pans

  10. #25
    Charter Member
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    Nov 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoser John View Post
    When a chain and lock is used i just cut chain and add a lock.
    If you have a legal right to ingress/egress this is the quickest and least dramatic solution. Quick, cheap and effective!

    Heavy Pans
    Goldwasher, Oddjob and Rail Dawg like this.

  11. #26
    us
    Mar 2013
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    Nevada Bureau of Mines Procedures Book

    http://nv-churchillcounty.civicplus.....aspx?DID=1180
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    Last edited by chlsbrns; Jun 13, 2018 at 03:31 PM.

  12. #27
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    I did not read it all. You should read it all before coming to any conclusions!

    H-3870-1, Adverse Claims, Protests, Contests, and Appeals

    https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/fi...cy_h3870-1.pdf
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    Last edited by chlsbrns; Jun 13, 2018 at 03:50 PM.

  13. #28
    us
    Aug 2004
    Olympia WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Diggins View Post
    You really can't expect the BLM to help in this matter Bonaro. I've given you the mining law that prohibits claimants from involving the government in their claim disputes.

    Here is the entire text of the 1865 Mining Act again.


    If that's difficult to understand or you, like others, believe old laws don't apply here is a much more recent decision where the BLM got their rears chewed for even suggesting that a disputed claim might be properly located.

    Robert O'Day 2013

    The BLM can not close a claim case file or "invalidate" a mining claim because of a dispute between claimants. The BLM does not work for claimants. They are a surface management agency - they do not manage your mineral rights.

    Once an adverse claim (overclaim) has been made the Sheriff can not interfere. It's entirely up to the claimants, or ultimately the courts, to settle their dispute. It's a civil matter. That's what the law says and that's what the Sheriff will tell you if you ask him to intervene. Please don't bother the Sheriff with civil disputes, you may actually need his help on your claim some day and false alarms could make the Sheriff reluctant to deal with you and other claimants needing help.

    Once Rail Dawg has a court order he can take that to the BLM and they will close the adverse claims case file because the court has adjudicated the civil matter in his favor. Even the BLM has to obey a court order. If the overclaimer persists after the judgement the Sheriff can help too.

    Heavy Pans
    Maybe I misspoke...I wouldn't expect the BLM to intervene in a civil dispute between miners. My suggestion was to point out to the BLM that the over filed claim was filed improperly and that they might want to void it on that basis. I actually dont see the problem with this over file unless the guy tries to mine or sell it. Its still worthless paper but if a new buyer invests a lot of $ he may try to fight it. If he tries to work the invalid claim then he can be regarded as a claim jumper.
    Again, informing him of his invalid claim and coming to a peaceful solution is always best
    Court is always the last resort

  14. #29
    Charter Member
    us
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    Some mineral trespass guidance. While this document deals mainly with mining without permission from the government, it may provide insight into how to stop losses from invalid claims. Click below to see BLM policy...

    https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/fi...y_H-9235-1.pdf

  15. #30
    us
    Oct 2015
    Northern Nevada
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    The top-filer responded to the letter we sent very positively and is backing off their claim.

    The upshot to this is we've learned even more important things in this thread plus we now have retained one of the sharpest local mining attorney's in the Rye Patch area.

    Although we won't need this time (it appears) the services of this attorney it sure is nice knowing we have a good one in our back pocket should the need arise.

    Many thanks to those who take the time to share their wisdom.
    et1955, Reed Lukens and wildminer like this.

 

 
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