Abandoned claims question

[blackchipjim]

This question was asked on another forum by a different poster. The answer he got was a non answer as far as I'm concerned. He asked if a claim shows no signs of being worked or improvement for years is it a valid claim. I remember reading somewhere here that the BLM doesn't really follow up on claims or verify rigorously as one would think. Any input would clear up my own misconceptions about validity of discovery.

 

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[Clay Diggins]

The BLM is not in charge of claims. It's up to the claim owner to maintain their claim.

In most circumstances the maintenance requirement consists of an annual public record made at the County Recorder and an FLPMA notice filed with the BLM. If the claim owner has done both of those maintenance requirements in a timely manner each year their claim is as valid as the day they located it no matter how much time has passed since you think they worked or improved the claim.

Only the federal government can challenge the validity of a claim. You could ask the BLM to do that for you. After they are done laughing you might find it helpful to read the mining acts so you don't get sidetracked with silly thoughts about other people's mining claims.

Respect your fellow miner's claim rights. Trying to find loopholes in a law that has been in place for more than 150 years is futile. Your time would be more productively spent prospecting for a good deposit to mine yourself.

Heavy Pans

 

[mendoAu]

Perhaps one would be advised that just cause a claim might very well be abandoned there are still neighbors of that claim to get along with...but what do I know living out here in the woods. HA! Depending on the situation of whats taking place on your claim BLM can and will be checking very thoroughly. They can advise you but not do much to help with your filing. Here on the West side of the Mississippi it could take up to a decade to answer your question. There's also the undercurrent of hostility about the "internet" claimers out to make a buck without setting foot on any property. Keep searching for an answer and do your best to succeed.

 

[blackchipjim]

Thanks clay I knew you and others here are a wealth of good information. I thought that a claim did have to have said mineral on claim to be valid.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Thanks clay I knew you and others here are a wealth of good information. I thought that a claim did have to have said mineral on claim to be valid.

You are welcome Jim.

Claims do have to have a valuable mineral deposit to be valid but the courts have consistently ruled that a claimant has a right to due process and a right to develop the claim validity over time unless there is a challenge from the United States.

Unless the BLM is prepared to perform an expensive mineral examination (due process) there is no chance another prospector could legally determine whether there was a valuable mineral deposit on that claim without committing the crime of mineral trespass.

The BLM only performs mineral exams when an area has been withdrawn from the mining laws and they need to respect prior rights. A valid claim is a prior right. The BLM used to occasionally perform mineral exams before they issued a mineral patent but that won't happen again until the Congresscritters allocate the funds for processing patent applications again.

Think about this for a minute. If you could somehow magically convince the BLM to perform a mineral exam on this claim there are only two outcomes possible:

1. The claim is validated as containing a valuable mineral deposit. Result - you can't make a claim there.
2. The BLM declares the claim is invalid because there is no valuable mineral deposit. Result - you can't make a valid claim because it's been established there is no valuable mineral deposit.

Heads you lose / Tails you lose.

Of course you have the right to make a junior adverse claim over the top of the other senior claim. You would then have 30 days to file suit and serve on the senior claimant.

When the local court hears all your wonderful reasons why you should have the claim and the senior locator shouldn't the judge will have a choice - award you the claim or allow the senior claimant to sue you for mineral trespass and claim jumping. Mineral trespass and claim jumping are criminal acts. Your original suit to prove your overclaim was a simple civil act.

You could easily go from being the predator to the prey in a few minutes when suing a senior claimant. Pretty high price to pay for a chance at jumping another man's claim? The law is designed that way on purpose. Something about this country being founded on the idea that property rights are really important. The courts hate lawsuits brought to object to a locators paperwork, description or lack of claim development. That's where the term "claim jumping" came from, lawyers trying to take a man's mining claim by challenging them in court.

There is a time and place to personally challenge a claim in a civil action. The simple fact that someone doesn't think the claimant deserves the claim is not that time or place.

Heavy Pans

 

[mendoAu]

...and don't forget the "prudent man rule".

 

[blackchipjim]

I whole heartedly agree with facts stated. I want to redirect the poster here to read your replies. It just shows how misinformation could cause more harm than good.

 

[Goldwasher]

The BLM is not in charge of claims. It's up to the claim owner to maintain their claim.

In most circumstances the maintenance requirement consists of an annual public record made at the County Recorder and an FLPMA notice filed with the BLM. If the claim owner has done both of those maintenance requirements in a timely manner each year their claim is as valid as the day they located it no matter how much time has passed since you think they worked or improved the claim.

Only the federal government can challenge the validity of a claim. You could ask the BLM to do that for you. After they are done laughing you might find it helpful to read the mining acts so you don't get sidetracked with silly thoughts about other people's mining claims.

Respect your fellow miner's claim rights. Trying to find loopholes in a law that has been in place for more than 150 years is futile. Your time would be more productively spent prospecting for a good deposit to mine yourself.

Heavy Pans

What happens if a labor recording is skipped one year at the County. But, the locator does record one the following year.

The law says it's prima facia abandonment. But, no one catches it maybe not even the locator. Until the following year.

If a junior locates the first year it is abandoned seems pretty cut and dry.

But, if a junior waits and files and sues the the year a new recording was made after a missed recording... not "timely" for the year in question.

will the judge consider it was abandoned the first year. Or that the locator is still showing labor for that claim.

Keeping in mind there is a whole year missing at the county?

 

[blackchipjim]

Well if I find a mine and with all do diligence research it and find its last fees were paid a decade ago and non after what is right. Could I file a new claim on it?

 

[Clay Diggins]

Well if I find a mine and with all do diligence research it and find its last fees were paid a decade ago and non after what is right. Could I file a new claim on it?

If the land is open to location, you are a U.S. citizen and you discover a valuable mineral on it of course you can claim it.

As I pointed out earlier fees do not make a valid claim. Lack of fees could be due to small miner waiver, exemption for inability to access claim, a patent being processed or the BLM hasn't gotten around to updating the case file.

Heavy Pans

 

[blackchipjim]

Hey Clay, if you don't mind answering another question. I went on land matters and diggings to research the area I'm going to do some prospecting. Both show the area to be in one county but when I do a claim search it shows it to be in the other. I'm a little preplexed on this even though it doesn't matter until I go to recorders office.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Send me a PM with the TRS and I'll look into it blackchipjim. It could be the locators recorded in the wrong county. Sure wouldn't be the first time.

Heavy Pans

 

[blackchipjim]

Well let me clarify this as to the my problem. The boundary lines say the township is in one county but when entered into claim search is in the other. I will send you a pm about it.

 

[blackchipjim]

Well clay I see the river splits the counties boundaries but didn't understand why only one county was listed with the claims instead of two.

 

[blackchipjim]

reply

You know you did bum me out.