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Thread: Stepped in bear poop yesterday at my prospecting area, advice?

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  1. #61
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
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    I hunt deer with and SKS. Chinese real chrome lined barrel not a sleeve. Very VERY accurate. Never had any kinds of optics on it.

    I can chase a green propane cylinder around at 40 yards until there is no more propane cylinder.

    Its pretty much the same as a 30-30 with a flatter trajectory. More down range energy with handloads and a heavier bullet.

    7.62x39 has been tumbling through flesh since the 1950's it's not new bullet design. But, the newer rounds tumble sooner. Deform more.

    All kinds of outcry against the round and 5.56 because of the traumatic wounds they created vs. the pass through wounds created by the previous .30 cal and 8mm FMJ rounds.

    Funny that officials were complaining about the bullets used in battle rifles for war.

    I own a Czech 8mm Mauser Made in 1923. As accurate as the day it was made. I have 1950's era surplus rounds for it. They are steel.

    They will put a wadcutter hole through 1/2 inch steel and sail right through cinder block barely deformed.

    My grandfather was wounded in the upper leg during the Battle of the Bulge. The round went right through his squad mates chest before settling into his leg.
    We have the round. Tracer round from an MG in a sulpha pouch. Barely deformed.

    A 7.62x39 fmj round will go right through 6" tree trunks Leaving a hole that looks smaller than the bullet looks to be in diameter.

    "hollow points" that are really just an fmj round with a small nosecone cavity with a little hole. Tend to be a steel alloy with a copper wash.

    Wolf, Tula, Silver Bear pretty much all the same round.

    Lead soft point by wolf is what I hunt with. The hollow points act too much like an FMJ.

    The only true FMJ rounds I have found are Soviet bloc production from the '80's They can't be imported anymore so they aren't easy to find anymore.

    Bears have a layer of fat. Plugs up entry wounds. Makes them hard to track even. If your gonna shoot them with something that will go through make sure it's a big ol' hole coming out.

    My choice would be to shoot them with something that will go deep enough to hit something good. To do as much damage inside as possible.

    If I had to choose between an AK or a Shotgun with slugs ..I would grab my SKS

    It would be the Carbine with quick follow up shots..I would jack that bear up. If it was a shotgun it would be an auto- loader with slugs.

    Buck shot is cool and all but, one pellet may hit a foreleg... the other pierces an ear...Until your within nominal range.

    If I had an intent looking bear and some ground between me and it. I would like the chance to throw some loud noises its way...Then launch some dirt towards it some of it with stingy shrapnel...

    If it's still coming my way I wants ample rounds left to work with.
    Duckshot likes this.

  2. #62
    us
    Apr 2015
    Oshkosh, WI
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    You didn't really watch that video close enough! 8M3 is different because it does expand and fragment where other hollow points fail and are no better than FMJ.

    As for energy, it is the same as .44 mag at 1600 ft/lbs.

    .44 mag carries six, 7.62x39 carries 30.

    I wouldn't mind taking my Saiga 12's and 10 round mags, but they're too big and bulky unless they were SBS'd. But NFA weapons are another pain in the butt to take across state lines.

  3. #63
    Charter Member

    Sep 2014
    Midwest, North of 3660'
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    Good post Goldwasher.

    I don't know why you are worried about exit wound diameter though. If a bear is charging with intent to kill you it will kill you if you don't stamp him on the noggin. Just gotta break the skull plus a few inches more, but if you can't break that skull you won't have to worry about it for long.

    I got more faith in my Mossberg 500's reliability for a second shot if needed than I have faith in my un-chromed yugo 59/66. Also I got a lot of practice swinging that Mossberg on moving targets. So, I would take the pumpgun.
    N-Lionberger likes this.
    "There can be no self-government without self-discipline. There can be no self-government without self-control. There can be no liberty unless it is grounded in moral discipline and the ability to do what is right." ~ Dr. Alan Keyes

    Liberty is the freedom to carry out God's will. In God We Trust.

  4. #64
    us
    ARC

    Aug 2014
    De Tampe Bahia - La Florida
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    Invest in a good shoe / boot scraper... or putty knife.

    P.S....cardboard sucks in the morning dew. :P
    Have permission... Fill holes... Dispose of trash. - The Random Chat Thread - AKA -" TNet Under Ground " http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/ev...l-welcome.html

  5. #65
    Charter Member

    Sep 2014
    Midwest, North of 3660'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Nemo View Post
    You didn't really watch that video close enough! 8M3 is different because it does expand and fragment where other hollow points fail and are no better than FMJ.

    As for energy, it is the same as .44 mag at 1600 ft/lbs.

    .44 mag carries six, 7.62x39 carries 30.

    I wouldn't mind taking my Saiga 12's and 10 round mags, but they're too big and bulky unless they were SBS'd. But NFA weapons are another pain in the butt to take across state lines.
    That's the thing, you don't need expansion for your purpose of killing a charging bear. What you need is penetration. All expanding bullets lose weight, and therefore penetration, upon expansion. But the 8M3 is supposedly designed to Fragment, not Mushoom. That's even worse penetration wise. You want a bullet that stays together and retains most of its mass. If the jacket separates from the core the bullets pretty much lost not only the weight of the jacket but also totally defeated the purpose of the jacket.

    Here is another 7.62x39mm 8M3 YouTube video-

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=acIZk2V6xg0

    I wouldn't trust that to kill a deer on a corn pile much less a dangerous charging preadator. Total failure as a jacketed bullet in that instance IMO.

    Just looking out for you Capt. I hope you have a great trip with lots of gold and nary a shot fired.
    "There can be no self-government without self-discipline. There can be no self-government without self-control. There can be no liberty unless it is grounded in moral discipline and the ability to do what is right." ~ Dr. Alan Keyes

    Liberty is the freedom to carry out God's will. In God We Trust.

  6. #66

    Mar 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckshot View Post
    That's the thing, you don't need expansion for your purpose of killing a charging bear. What you need is penetration. All expanding bullets lose weight, and therefore penetration, upon expansion. But the 8M3 is supposedly designed to Fragment, not Mushoom. That's even worse penetration wise. You want a bullet that stays together and retains most of its mass. If the jacket separates from the core the bullets pretty much lost not only the weight of the jacket but also totally defeated the purpose of the jacket.

    Here is another 7.62x39mm 8M3 YouTube video-

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=acIZk2V6xg0

    I wouldn't trust that to kill a deer on a corn pile much less a dangerous charging preadator. Total failure as a jacketed bullet in that instance IMO.

    Just looking out for you Capt. I hope you have a great trip with lots of gold and nary a shot fired.
    If lever guns weren’t prone to occasionally jamming, a .44 Mag carbine holding 10 rounds would be a potent woods gun. Fun as heck to shoot and would match the sidearm. Why limit yourself to just one gun?
    Goldwasher likes this.
    All treasures found with permission on private property or on active mining claims.

  7. #67
    us
    Oct 2015
    Northern Nevada
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    I think the bear is a high-grader dressed up like a bear.
    Lanny in AB and N-Lionberger like this.

  8. #68
    us
    Apr 2015
    Oshkosh, WI
    861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckshot View Post
    That's the thing, you don't need expansion for your purpose of killing a charging bear. What you need is penetration. All expanding bullets lose weight, and therefore penetration, upon expansion. But the 8M3 is supposedly designed to Fragment, not Mushoom. That's even worse penetration wise. You want a bullet that stays together and retains most of its mass. If the jacket separates from the core the bullets pretty much lost not only the weight of the jacket but also totally defeated the purpose of the jacket.

    Here is another 7.62x39mm 8M3 YouTube video-

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=acIZk2V6xg0

    I wouldn't trust that to kill a deer on a corn pile much less a dangerous charging preadator. Total failure as a jacketed bullet in that instance IMO.

    Just looking out for you Capt. I hope you have a great trip with lots of gold and nary a shot fired.
    Note the velocity and energy difference between the 10" and 16" barrels? There's your answer! SSDD with 14-16" M4's verses older AR15's with 20" barrels. 14" gives ~3000 fps, and 20" gives 3250 fps. That extra 250 fps is what makes both M193 and M855 cause nasty wounds out to 100m. The M4 doesn't have the energy to yaw the bullet much. Same is true in the video, as the 16" barrel AK had 1550 ft/lbs, and the 10" had 1250 ft/lbs.

    I use .223 55 gr JSP with 20" barrels on WI whitetails all the time. Works fine out to 200yds, but you need to be a good tracker past 100. Not much blood from a .22in/.22out hole in the past 100 shots. Under 100, and the bullet leaves the body going sideways leaving a stab wound looking hole.

  9. #69
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, ACME handbook for TRUE prospectors (unread)
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    [QUOTE=Duckshot;6011465]Good post Goldwasher.

    I don't know why you are worried about exit wound diameter though. If a bear is charging with intent to kill you it will kill you if you don't stamp him on the noggin. Just gotta break the skull plus a few inches more, but if you can't break that skull you won't have to worry about it for long.

    I got more faith in my Mossberg 500's reliability for a second shot if needed than I have faith in my un-chromed yugo 59/66. Also I got a lot of practice swinging that Mossberg on moving targets. So, I would take the pumpgun.[/QUOTEI


    True my point was what it means if a round does pass through. Its typically not as lethal of a wound.

    Like I said for pistol rounds. since I carry in consideration of multiple potential targets up to a bear. Its a sort of compromise.

    I am more comfortable with a carbine over a shotgun. It is because I have fired one way more than the other.

    Only really upland work with a shotgun. Buckshot and slugs for target shooting.

    If I was in a vehicle or car camp I would probably want a shotgun handy.

    I'm also not interested in crawling around under the manzanita with a big six gun hangin off of me and I can't drag a shotgun around.

    A 130 grain hollow point or lead nose is gonna penetrate break stuff and cause major trauma.

    Even after all I hope any other bears I meet run off like they usually do.

  10. #70
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, ACME handbook for TRUE prospectors (unread)
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMAUDIGGER View Post
    If lever guns weren’t prone to occasionally jamming, a .44 Mag carbine holding 10 rounds would be a potent woods gun. Fun as heck to shoot and would match the sidearm. Why limit yourself to just one gun?
    if your lucky you can find a Ruger ranch in .44 mag https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Model_44

    Sweet little lead slinger
    Duckshot likes this.

  11. #71
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, ACME handbook for TRUE prospectors (unread)
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    Killin' hogs 400+ yards with a 7.62x39
    Lanny in AB likes this.

  12. #72
    Watching....

    May 2014
    california
    16
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    Bears

    Quote Originally Posted by firebird View Post
    I went back yesterday to the gravel area that I had posted about in another thread. Immediately I noticed a nasty smell and just right around the paydirt area was the unmistakable sight of black bear poop. Oh crap, now I finally understand why I was finding gold here and why it hadn't been taken by anyone else before. Have you ever had any experiences with dangerous animals while prospecting?
    The Bears don't want any thing to do with you, make some noise. Thought I had a claim jumper this year, just got a glimpse of someone moving behind a bush about 400' away, middle of the day, so I was quite and went down after him, came around a corner, he was about 25' away, 250 pounds and all brown fur eating black berries
    . He didn't see me, I just started to back away, and said you need to go, he took one look at me and was gone, I went the other way. Saw another one coming down out of a tree, about 100' away, I dropped a metal bar on a rock, the sharp crack, and he was gone..

  13. #73
    us
    sprailroad

    Jan 2017
    Grants Pass, Oregon
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    All righty then, you fella's make me NOT want to go into the woods ever again. Anyway, the black probably knew you were there anyway, my understanding that they can smell a meal up to 20 miles away, unreal. It's not the black bear that would worry me as much as a cougar. A cougar would most likely take a nap laying in the sun on a rock above me until he felt hungry, and..... Having said that, I do carry a .44 Mag. I was told never UNDER estimate a black bear, better to be over gunned then under. Never had an encounter though, so hard to say just how one would react. I did tell some fella's one time, that I thought about filing off the front sights of the .44, they asked why in the world would I want to do that?, told them so that if I freeze up, it won't hurt so bad when that bear takes that gun out of my hand and shoves it up my ---.
    arizau likes this.

  14. #74
    us
    Apr 2015
    Oshkosh, WI
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    The best thing I hope for is the salmon downstream keep the bears occupied down below the treeline. Do windchimes keep them away? I'll hang one from the wetsuit drying post if it does.

  15. #75

    Mar 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliff162 View Post
    The Bears don't want any thing to do with you, make some noise. Thought I had a claim jumper this year, just got a glimpse of someone moving behind a bush about 400' away, middle of the day, so I was quite and went down after him, came around a corner, he was about 25' away, 250 pounds and all brown fur eating black berries
    . He didn't see me, I just started to back away, and said you need to go, he took one look at me and was gone, I went the other way. Saw another one coming down out of a tree, about 100' away, I dropped a metal bar on a rock, the sharp crack, and he was gone..
    Matches my encounters with black bears.
    My dad takes pleasure in treeing black bears by intimidating them.

    Watch some bear attack videos...they can react much differently when they are in the mood.
    All treasures found with permission on private property or on active mining claims.

 

 
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