This is why you get your ore tested

[Mad Machinist]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/amp/news/901086

And they said the geology in Arizona wasn't right for rare earth metals. Get your ore tested with an XRF for rare earth metals. This is the only way I know of so if someone else knows of something different PLEASE correct me.

I'll take an ounce of rhodium over an ounce of gold anyday.

 

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[Mad Machinist]

Here's another reason. Tungsten is over $30k a metric ton (2200 lbs) amd a whole lot more common than gold. Be a famn Greek tragedy to pass up a high grade tungsten deposit because it has no gold.

You really need to know what is in your ore prospects.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Tin as cassiterite has a specific gravity of 6.4-7.0 and runs about $15k a ton. It can be separated on the same shaker table as gold. Some base metal that isn't really produced here anymore. Know your ore. It ain't as glamorous as gold but it will still damn well pay the bills.

 

[Brandon1981]

Been my dream for awhile to buy a claim and mine it for a living! I live in the east U.S. where we have gold just claims are not for sale. I'm about ready to live in a tent on a claim I can call my own. I should get a van by the river! If you ever need a prospecting crew member I'm your guy!

 

[Moesia]

The company you have listed is one of many that is prospecting for REE. Geology has nothing to do with the fact that there are no REE mines in the US. Operating cost do. W and Sn are far more restricted in terms of geological occurrence than Gold. And both are uneconomic to mine in the US. Most mining in general is uneconomic in the US, mainly due to the higher wages and other operating costs.

 

[BoydBros]

...Most mining in general is uneconomic in the US, mainly due to the higher wages and other operating costs.

It has nothing to do with "higher wages". That's straight BS from luxury class talking heads who claim the labor of others as their own (theft), while claiming poverty.

 

[BoydBros]

That area has lithium deposits too

 

[Goldwasher]

The company you have listed is one of many that is prospecting for REE. Geology has nothing to do with the fact that there are no REE mines in the US. Operating cost do. W and Sn are far more restricted in terms of geological occurrence than Gold. And both are uneconomic to mine in the US. Most mining in general is uneconomic in the US, mainly due to the higher wages and other operating costs.

over regulation has waaaay more of an affect on mining in the US than wages. We have the best wages for everything. Why would that stop mining?

 

[Mad Machinist]

The company you have listed is one of many that is prospecting for REE. Geology has nothing to do with the fact that there are no REE mines in the US. Operating cost do. W and Sn are far more restricted in terms of geological occurrence than Gold. And both are uneconomic to mine in the US. Most mining in general is uneconomic in the US, mainly due to the higher wages and other operating costs.

Wages have very little to do the lack of mining here 9n the US. I dance with six figures a year as a miner and there are those here that make more than I do.

The biggest problem here is over regulation. And I think it is going to get worse before it gets any better.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Wages have very little to do the lack of mining here 9n the US. I dance with six figures a year as a miner and there are those here that make more than I do.

The biggest problem here is over regulation. And I think it is going to get worse before it gets any better.

A heavy equipment operator can come close to that in any industry if they are working long hours consistently on prevailing wage jobs.Not dismissing your wages, but moving earth can be expensive mining or building roads.

I agree..major resistance from government agencies (and the public).

 

[Mad Machinist]

A heavy equipment operator can come close to that in any industry if they are working long hours consistently on prevailing wage jobs.Not dismissing your wages, but moving earth can be expensive mining or building roads.

I agree..major resistance from government agencies (and the public).

Yea, there is no doubt moving earth is expensive. But for the most part it comes down to the economy of scale. More often that not it is cheaper to go big or go home. Our 793 haul trucks move about 250 tons a shot.

 

[Moesia]

over regulation has waaaay more of an affect on mining in the US than wages. We have the best wages for everything. Why would that stop mining?

Mining in the US has been on the decline for some time now. US has only 2 firms that are not in gold that may be considered major miners. Freeport-McMoRan and Southern Copper. Most of the big mines in Arizona are not making money. They are losing Freeport money that they have been trying to offset by large profits in Indonesia and SA. Grades at the US mines are simply to low. Southern Copper does not have mines in the US.

The difference is that unlike other industries miners do not set the price for the good they produce. So unlike a car manufacturer when the costs of production rise (due to the lover ore grades) miners cannot simply raise the price of the commodity they produce.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Mining in the US has been on the decline for some time now. US has only 2 firms that are not in gold that may be considered major miners. Freeport-McMoRan and Southern Copper. Most of the big mines in Arizona are not making money. They are losing Freeport money that they have been trying to offset by large profits in Indonesia and SA. Grades at the US mines are simply to low. Southern Copper does not have mines in the US.

The difference is that unlike other industries miners do not set the price for the good they produce. So unlike a car manufacturer when the costs of production rise (due to the lover ore grades) miners cannot simply raise the price of the commodity they produce.

Hmmm, I don't know where your getting your information but Freeport is definitely NOT losing money in Arizona and the ore grades are not declining. I work for them in Morenci so I know how much we make and what we mine.

And Grasberg is pretty much going to take two years to get back up to full production now that they are underground working a HUGE block cave operation.

 

[Moesia]

Hmmm, I don't know where your getting your information but Freeport is definitely NOT losing money in Arizona and the ore grades are not declining. I work for them in Morenci so I know how much we make and what we mine.

And Grasberg is pretty much going to take two years to get back up to full production now that they are underground working a HUGE block cave operation.

Freeport officially lost 72 million dollars from its operations in the last 3 months, that number is probably much larger as all companies under report their losses. Next time they report that number is going to rise even more as the price of copper has fallen.

Grades at all mines decline over time. Average grade at all mines in around the year 2000 was 1.2%, today it is 0.55%. Copper grades at Morenci are at 0.17%, which is extremely low for a copper mine, currently the mine is processing ores with higher grades. The mine produces some Mo, so that helps a little. When large scale operations first started ores were 2%. And in 2005 around 0.6% for comparison.

A mine to be profitable needs to have ore grades of at least 0.3% to 0.4%. Depending on the location specific operating costs that number can vary. Freeports mines are all under 0.45%. Morrenci is at 0.17%+, Bagdad 0.32%, Sierrita 0.23%, Safford 0.45%, Miami is no longer producing. Grades at SA are not much better. That is not sustainable.

Grasberg was the cash cow, but now the government has taken its share. And as you have pointed out it is not going to ramp up production for at least 2 years.

Freeport has been bankrupt for some time now and they have been able to finance them-self and keep going trough debt. The company has 10 billion dollars of debt. They dont have the money to buy a new profitable mine and to develop one from scratch takes 10 years at least and anywhere from 2Bn to 10Bn dollars. For some time now it has been under consideration that some larger mining company take Freeport trough M&A. But no one wants to acquire them. Freeport operations aside from Grasberg are unprofitable or make very little money.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Like I said, I don't know where you get your information but is dead wrong. I not allowed to say what our grades are but what you posted isn't even close.

Yea we lost a little money last quarter but that is due to expansion at Grasberg and also Safford. Neither kne will be in full production until the end of 2020.

The analysts can stand up and claim whatever they want. They say Morenci is not profitable yet we prove them wrong everyday.

So we have $10 billion in debt. 8 year ago it was at $26 billion. We will be just fine.

 

[Moesia]

Like I said, I don't know where you get your information but is dead wrong. I not allowed to say what our grades are but what you posted isn't even close.

I assume you are referring to Morenci. What you are referring to must be a high grade patch of the mine. The company has listed 500Mt at 0.5% (that is still low grade ore). At current production levels it will run out in 7 years. The rest is very low grade ore, some at 0.3% and the bulk at 0.16%. That is unprofitable to mine.

It is public information. I am not an analyst, don't have any financial interest in seeing Freeport go bankrupt nor do I trade on the stock market for that mater. It was just an interesting subject that you started.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Actually .16% ore is perfectly profitable to mine for a run of mine heap leach set up. This is the exact same process Barrick and Newmont use on the Carlin Trend to mine gold at .2 grams per ton. Yes that's two tenths of a gram per ton.

 

[Moesia]

Nowhere in the world is 0.16% profitable to mine, not even with ROM. That 0.2 gram gold is more money per ton than 0.16% copper.

Carlin Trend has very favorable geology, that is why it is mining lower grades at a negligible profit. Most of the profit comes from higher grade areas. The money they make of these low grades might be negligible but it is still profit. When it gets reported that they mined low grade it gives the wrong impression of the actual profitability. Not all mines at the Carlin Trend are the same.

And when you mention them, Barrick and Newmont are losing money or struggling to break even. That might slightly improve now that the gold price has risen recently.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Nowhere in the world is 0.16% profitable to mine, not even with ROM. That 0.2 gram gold is more money per ton than 0.16% copper.

Carlin Trend has very favorable geology, that is why it is mining lower grades at a negligible profit. Most of the profit comes from higher grade areas. The money they make of these low grades might be negligible but it is still profit. When it gets reported that they mined low grade it gives the wrong impression of the actual profitability. Not all mines at the Carlin Trend are the same.

And when you mention them, Barrick and Newmont are losing money or struggling to break even. That might slightly improve now that the gold price has risen recently.

When I sit down for our meeting like I do every Friday, I'll pass this along so we can all have a good laugh.

Those who say it can't be done really shouldn't interrupt those of us who are doing it.

 

[Moesia]

Ok.