South Yuba prospecting question.

[Tahoegold]

I'm looking at MyLandMatters website and out of curiosity I start clicking on the S. Yuba river to see what is claimed. All along the river at the HWY 49 bridge are mineral pattents that are current. My question is, How can the State even say there's "hands and pans only" if there's a federal pattent there? I watch guys on youtube hiking out from this bridge to places that seem to be outside the S. Yuba Rec Area. However, on MyLandMatters all that river is claimed.
I was thinking of taking day trip there. Now I'm not so sure I should. Even though I see folks doing that. Am I reading this info correctly? Maybe someone with more knowledge of this area and the legalities could shed some light on this. I'd sure like to go to Purdone, Hoyt's, Edwards and HWY 49 bridge down river, North side. All seem to have Pattents. All seem to have a history of folks going there and panning/sluicing. I don't want to higrade.
The only place I know I can go that's open to the public is above Mineral Bar. Looking for another location to sluice/bust bedrock (besides Bear Rvr day use) that is in the S Yuba, NFAR area. Thanks! TG

 

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[Asmbandits]

I'm not sure what patents your referring to but the area around the 49 bridge is state land with some blm here and there with some claims but from the the 49 bridge to a little past the south yuba camp ground is open pretty much. Hands and pans technically, wild and scenic. Up river from humbug creek the river is pretty much claimed up completely.

 

[Asmbandits]

You can play at all the crossings basically, pretty much safe from humbug down, with just a couple claims here and there near 49 bridge.

 

[Tahoegold]

Ok Asmbandits, thanks for the response. I was wondering if you would know... You see, I clicked on the river itself in "MyLandMattets" along those areas, and it came up with mineral pattents everywhere I clicked. I'm thinking the actual boundaries may need to be viewed. For example, the Eileen Claim near mineral bar was technically in the AMRA above mineral bar. It's been abandoned as of last year. I suppose now no one can claim it. Probably what information I get from the MLM site is refering to a claim in that sector. Not at the point I have clicked on. I really am close enough to the S Yuba and NFAR to go to any of those and I am looking to get "Out" and have some fun.

 

[n01d3x]

It is my understanding that you can’t stake a claim on the South Yuba until you get up to Forestry Service land, which is way passed humbug, about half way between humbug and Washington.

 

[Cold Water Gold]

@ Tahoegold, I am thinking of going to S. Yuba at Edwards Crossing this Saturday Oct 26 to scout it out with pans and crevice tools. I have been to S.Yuba before but trying to find sites that are not claimed or in SYRA with hands and Pans restrictions.

 

[n01d3x]

Also, the only areas that are hands and pans are the State park areas. The BLM land around the State Park is not hands and pans. I’ve spoken with our BLM guy several times concerning this. He has assured me that aside from suction dredging with a motor, you can pretty much do what you want. I’ve spoke with Fish and Game as well. The field office in charge had no idea what I was talking about. After several phone calls, and even sending them links to their own regs, this is what they told me. “There is no reg preventing you from using a gas water pump, but we would rather you just pour buckets of water over your sluice box.” LOL! It’s a good thing I only care about the regs and not so much about what they prefer.

 

[Tahoegold]

Thanks all for your input. From what I've learned from the experienced sages from Tnet is that all those agencies shouldn't be trusted to give you the right info. The only agency that matters is the County Recorders office. BLM, Cal Wildlife, those guys are not the holder of the claims documents. Yes, they require paperwork, however, and this is what I understand, (please correct me if I am mistaken).
So the MyLandMatters website uses those county documents. One can click on any place on the map to find out county claim info. However, it does not provide a map of the claim boundaries. I understand the hands and pans area is the S Yuba park only. It becomes tricky when I don't know the boundaries of the claims. I may just need to go into the office and take a few pics for myself....
You know what would be real handy, would be maps of claim boundaries around these popular spots. I don't need to know who owns them. I just want to avoid them.

 

[Tahoegold]

Ok, I found a site, "The Diggins" that I can see approx boundaries. But, I think the county is still the best source...

 

[Goldwasher]

Thanks all for your input. From what I've learned from the experienced sages from Tnet is that all those agencies shouldn't be trusted to give you the right info. The only agency that matters is the County Recorders office. BLM, Cal Wildlife, those guys are not the holder of the claims documents. Yes, they require paperwork, however, and this is what I understand, (please correct me if I am mistaken).
So the MyLandMatters website uses those county documents. One can click on any place on the map to find out county claim info. However, it does not provide a map of the claim boundaries. I understand the hands and pans area is the S Yuba park only. It becomes tricky when I don't know the boundaries of the claims. I may just need to go into the office and take a few pics for myself....
You know what would be real handy, would be maps of claim boundaries around these popular spots. I don't need to know who owns them. I just want to avoid them.

There will never be an online map of mining claims..the data changes too much. The law requires the seeker to seek..so be it!

Land matters claim info is based directly on BLM files. There are only links to counties for more info/contact.

Don't trust BLM on mining regulation "info". Considering they just file what locators give them they are kinda just a holder of that info. Also..money grabber.

There are certain "regulations" that will be enforced by CDFW. And it is true that they will tell you different things if you ask different people. It is true that there is no law that bans the use of motors and pumps.

The waterboard will basically get involved if your in a situation where someone decides to rat you out. As they are not on "patrol"

The Diggings uses the same info as landmatters..just not as well no matter how shiny the webpage is. The ACTIVE, CLOSED , HISTORY info and customer info on TheDiggings.. is based on lr2000 BLM info.. You can search the same info on the BLM search page. By name and Area. Once you know how to plot based on land PLSS description you can determine claim boundaries. The Diggings does not do that. Do not trust any claim boundary map they provide. As the BLM provides info down to the quarter section a claim(s) in. One of our claims is a Lot one is a 20 acre..

The Diggings does not show where my claims are within the quarter section...a quarter section is 160 acre .If filed as simple 20 acre claims there can be 8 claims in a quarter section (placer lodes can be complicated) The BLM serial registry page for an owner will only say what quarter a claim is in. I.E. NW NE SW SE Not what corner of the quarter though. There are 16 corner 1/4s in a section. A 20 acre claim is typically the N, S, E ,W half of a quarters corner. Unless it was locate via Metes and Bounds.. But it often can be a 1/4 of one corners half in two different corners in a quarter. So if there are Lode and placer in a Quarter section..you really really need to see the location notice to decide where they are exactly. What I just typed should be confusing enough to illustrate why there will never be Accurate claim maps available online below Quarter section fidelity.



The map given of my claims..is no where near what I would call "approx" on The Diggings

At that point it isn't even about "trusting" the BLM or county recorder...It's about trusting the locator..that tends to be a bummer too

There is no online source for any type of claim boundary. That map exists (should,however amazingly it isn't there often) in the Mining location file at the county.

 

[Tahoegold]

Goldwasher, thank you for that. Just what I suspected and thanks for the details. So, would it be ok/ethical with the owners of claims if someone were to go to the county, find the actual claim boundary map and post it on the web? I would think they, especially if the claim were in a high traffic area that they would want folks to know and avoid their claim. However, me not knowing how folks think about this I would hesitate doing something like that without confirming with the claim owners. I wonder how that would sit with the owners....

 

[Clay Diggins]

From the front page of the Mining Claim Maps section of Land Matters.

Knowing the current status of mining claims is a critical part of understanding the land status in any given area of the public lands. As well as mining claims these maps have a Land Status layer and a PLSS layer to help you research and visualize the current land status. These maps should not be relied on to be current. Mining locators have 90 days after making their location to publicly record their claim and give the BLM notice of that recording. Additional time should be anticipated before the State BLM office updates the records on the LR2000 database that is used to create these maps.

The mining claims represented on these maps are only displayed to the nearest section and DO NOT display the actual claim location. Sections are about one square mile and actual mining claim locations can vary considerably from their mapped location.

The only way to determine an actual claim location is to obtain the County Recorder Location Notice and amendments for the claim in question, study the mapped location and then find the location marker on the ground. Members of the public and other prospectors do not have the right to determine whether an existing claim location is valid, only a court of record can make that determination.

Land Matters provides the information you need to understand the limitations of the mining claims maps. There is no other source of mining claim maps that is more current or more accurate. In the end run it's legally up to the prospector to do their due diligence before they put boots on the ground.

Prospectors have been doing that same due diligence research since 1872. Most of that time there has been no internet, phone, BLM or paved roads. You've got it easy today with resources like Land Matters. Most of your research can be done from your easy chair. I'm old enough I have spent days on end going through thousands of feet of microfiche in a dark room in the basement of the recorder's office just to find one location notice. This research is now easier than it has ever been for prospectors.

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

So, would it be ok/ethical with the owners of claims if someone were to go to the county, find the actual claim boundary map and post it on the web?

All location notices and maps are a public record. There is nothing wrong with providing public information to the public.

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

There is no online source for any type of claim boundary. That map exists (should,however amazingly it isn't there often) in the Mining location file at the county.

In Arizona most of the county recorder's mining claim location notices and maps are available for free online. Many other States are now allowing free download of copies of public documents.

Seems right that public documents should be available to the public?

I doubt you will ever see that in California where everything is considered a source of government revenue even if it is public and has already been paid for.

Heavy Pans

 

[Tahoegold]

All these posts are fantastic info. Thanks for your contributions!!!
I believe the info posted is relevant to this discussion. What I would like to see happen would not be a website with full disclosure of all claims in CA. What I think would be invaluable would be for just the claims at state parks and such. Those who are "in the industry" are looking at the maps and going to the county etc. However, some folks are here from across the country for a few days. I would think they would not have a larcenous intent. They would probably like to know they were not entering onto someone's claim. I'm thinking of claims that are regularly visited by these vacationers who just don't know. All those sites I listed can be accessed by car and a hike in. In this day and age, if I owned a claim near one of these spots, I'd sure like to reduce the traffic. At least keep the honest folks out. So, I'm thinking just those claims. Fo example, all the NF Yuba has a road. And, as we all know, is all claimed. I get that the boundaries change. If I had a new claim and had the ability to put my boundaries on a website myself like that I would. I suppose it would have to be the same identical map present at the county etc. I'm probably just wishin'. Its sometimes a thought, that turns into, a reality....

 

[Goldwasher]

In Arizona most of the county recorder's mining claim location notices and maps are available for free online. Many other States are now allowing free download of copies of public documents.



I doubt you will ever see that in California where everything is considered a source of government revenue even if it is public and has already been paid for.

Heavy Pans

Seems right that public documents should be available to the public?
Yea El Dorado county lets you look up if there is a Doc. online. but, you have to order copies if you need to see the file.. I just go in and take pics with my phone. Last time I looked Inyo county was the same and one of the counties in Nv. I was looking at.

You would hope since i pay $100 bucks a year to record. That would pay for the file to be viewable ..but, nope. I figured some states were a little more reasonable.