Quitclaim question

[Rail Dawg]

A Quitclaim was done transferring a claim to us in June.

The previous owner had a Small Miner Certification filed for 2019.

Am I correct in that as long as the Maintenance Fee for 2020 was done before Sep 01, 2019 there are no other requirements in regards to the Small Miner Certification? Is that Cert no longer in effect?

Only talking BLM here.

Thanks.

Chuck

 

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[Rail Dawg]

Got the answer from BLM but verifying with you guys. If small miner for 2019 it must be completed with FLPMA filing by Dec 30, 2019 even if claim was transferred to us in June 2019.

We didn’t know this and it’s yet another part of maintaining mining claims we needed to learn.

Any additions to the above is appreciated.

Chuck

 

[mikep691]

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, You acquired a claim in June while it was still under the former owner's SMW. If you recorded the transfer of interest, sent the copies to BLM with your $15 per transferee, prior to the Aug. 30 deadline, AND your claim holdings are under 10 claims, you could have simply filed a new SMW for 2020 without paying anymore fees (lost money) to BLM. Of course you still have to provide your labor assessment on time for Nevada, recorded in your county, then sent to BLM by Dec. 30. You already know this but no one member of an association claim can have over 10 claims. That alone will disqualify all associates of the small minor waiver.

I just went through this last August. We removed one associate for another, filed in the county and mailed all the paperwork with a new SMW for the 2020 year to BLM. Took them a long time but all was approved and good.

 

[Rail Dawg]

From the BLM (another lesson learned by us!):

SWITCHING BETWEEN WAIVER AND MAINTENANCE FEE/TRANSFERRING CLAIMS UNDER A WAIVER. Be very careful if switching between a waiver and maintenance fee, and when transferring a claim that is under a waiver.

a) If it is the first time you file a waiver, you must file a Notice of Intent to Hold, on or before December 30 immediately following the filing of the waiver. AND, you must also file an Affidavit of Labor on or before the following December 30.

b) If you filed a waiver for the current assessment year and then choose to file a maintenance fee the next year, you MUST STILL file the Affidavit of Labor by December 30. Example: On or before September 1, 2008, you filed a waiver for the 2009 assessment year. Then on or before September 1, 2009, you pay the maintenance fee for the 2010 assessment year. You MUST STILL file the Affidavit on or before December 30, 2009, for the 2009 assessment year to fulfill the waiver you filed. Paying your maintenance fee on or before September 1, 2009, for the 2010 assessment year does not alleviate this requirement.

c) If you transfer ownership of a mining claim that is under a waiver for the current assessment year be sure to inform the new owner of the requirement to file the Affidavit of Labor for that assessment year. This requirement does not go away because you transferred the claim.

d) If you transfer ownership of a mining claim that is under a waiver for the current assessment year and the new owner does not qualify for a small miner waiver, the waiver is immediately cancelled and the new owner must pay the maintenance fee for that year prior to the upcoming September 1. They must also pay the maintenance fee for the new assessment year that begins on September 1.

Chuck

 

[Goldwasher]

once it's turned in for that assessment year it counts.

Covers the claim even with transfer as it met its deadline.

You guys not qualifying for the smw. Doesn't affect it during the transfer. the Quitclaim is only the release of title. Not a revocation of fee's paid.

Though Since a smw is filed for the up coming year. The labor for that year needs to be performed right?

Can you guys as the new owners perform that labor when you don't qualify for the smw?

I'll be waiting on Clays response on this one it's an interesting what if.

 

[Clay Diggins]

From the BLM (another lesson learned by us!):

SWITCHING BETWEEN WAIVER AND MAINTENANCE FEE/TRANSFERRING CLAIMS UNDER A WAIVER. Be very careful if switching between a waiver and maintenance fee, and when transferring a claim that is under a waiver.

d) If you transfer ownership of a mining claim that is under a waiver for the current assessment year and the new owner does not qualify for a small miner waiver, the waiver is immediately cancelled and the new owner must pay the maintenance fee for that year prior to the upcoming September 1. They must also pay the maintenance fee for the new assessment year that begins on September 1.

Chuck

once it's turned in for that assessment year it counts.

Covers the claim even with transfer as it met its deadline.

You guys not qualifying for the smw. Doesn't affect it during the transfer. the Quitclaim is only the release of title. Not a revocation of fee's paid.

Though Since a smw is filed for the up coming year. The labor for that year needs to be performed right?

Can you guys as the new owners perform that labor when you don't qualify for the smw?

I'll be waiting on Clays response on this one it's an interesting what if.

Chuck already answered your question in his post above Goldwasher.

Heavy Pans

 

[Goldwasher]

I didn't see that post. looks like we were typing ours at almost the same time.

Man I was wrong. Should have assumed that BLM would get the maintenance fee. Of course they do.

I didn't know that it cancelled the waiver when I comment. That's why I was waiting for Mining Claim Gandalf to come along.

I knew about having to submit the affidavit for the smw of the current year if you are gonna take over the claim.

Didn't know they ding you for the previous year if you take over and can't waiver. But, it does make sense.

I need to pick up the new locating/ validity book . I can't find mine anywhere. it was the last publishing anyway.

Glad Chuck found something to post up here

 

[Goldwasher]

Chuck already answered your question in his post above Goldwasher.

Heavy Pans

How long do you have to get to the BLM to pay the previous years maintenance fee(s)? Just By Sept.1? Paying previous and upcoming at that time.

If you buy in January go to Blm a day later to pay the previous years fee? You pay the next years fees as usual before Sept. 1st. Or at the same time the above post includes the word "also" but, doesn't refer to timing.

Interesting convolution. No wonder BLM is always on top of their game

 

[mikep691]

We filed/recorded a quit claim transferring interest from one associate to another, new SMW to BLM with new associate, their required $15 fee, before the assessment year deadline. Then submitted our labor assessment after recording. All is good for Commiefornia. We didn't have to pay any extra fees.

 

[Clay Diggins]

How long do you have to get to the BLM to pay the previous years maintenance fee(s)? Just By Sept.1? Paying previous and upcoming at that time.

If you buy in January go to Blm a day later to pay the previous years fee? You pay the next years fees as usual before Sept. 1st. Or at the same time the above post includes the word "also" but, doesn't refer to timing.

Interesting convolution. No wonder BLM is always on top of their game

Sorry I just saw this post.

The simple answer is the full maintenance fee in this situation has to be paid before September 1 of the mining year in which you purchased the claim. The upcoming mining year's fee also has to be paid by that date.

The federal mining year runs from September 1 through August 31. I don't know of any State that has a mining year beginning on January 1st.

The notice of claim transfer has to be processed, paid for and recorded according to State law. The BLM fee for the informational transfer filing is currently $15 and there is no deadline under Federal law.

If you don't file a transfer of interest with the BLM it doesn't invalidate the claim but the BLM will still use the previous owners contact information. That could lead to trouble down the line. In the situation where the claim purchased is under an invalid SMW you will need to file a transfer of interest notice before BLM will allow you to pay the annual maintenance fees.

I'm sure it will eventually be asked so here's the scoop on another twist on SMW ownership.
If you have a current valid SMW and you acquire new claims that put you over the limit of 10 all the maintenance fees for all your claims become due within 30 days of notice by the BLM or by September 1 - whichever occurs first.

I learned to Twist to Chubby Checker in school. I guess I have an advantage over the younger than dirt crowd.

Heavy Pans

 

[Rail Dawg]

Clay does the Quitclaim transfer of a SMW claim to another claimant now allow the original SMW holder to pick up another claim for SMW?

Example: The SMW claimant is right at 10 claims. A Quitclaim takes it to 9 claims but then the SMW claimant picks up another claim taking the ownership back to 10.

The Quitclaim is like a line in the sand correct? There isn't a temporary time where the SMW claimant has 11 claims?

Confusing question but it does bear discussion.

Chuck

 

[Silveraith]

According to our engineer, there may be an examination/verification / as to proof of labor. Possibly other issues as well.

 

[mikep691]

As long as he does not exceed 10 claims, he still qualifies as a "Small Miner" and can use the SMW.

From BLM: Maintenance Fee Payment Waiver Certification (Small Miner’s Waiver)
If a claimant owns 10 or fewer active claims/sites on Federal land nationwide, the claimant may qualify for a maintenance fee payment waiver also known as the small miner’s waiver. Form 3830-2 must be used when filing a small miner’s waiver request and must be filed or postmarked (if mailed) on or before September 1 every year.

 

[Rail Dawg]

According to our engineer, there may be an examination/verification / as to proof of labor. Possibly other issues as well.

Sounds good!

Claim Jumping is a tough row to hoe Silver but since you guys are going to try doing it we welcome the oversight.

One thing we are pretty good at is keeping paperwork in order for ourselves and for the old-timers in our Mining District. We do make our share of mistakes however and spend a lot of time fixing those mistakes. Having your engineer spend valuable time looking over our work is a big help! I don't think you'll be able to jump our claims but I do think your engineer will help us correct any mistakes.

Fortunately this forum has without question been instrumental in teaching us about mining claims and their maintenance.

If you get a chance make a donation to mylandmatters.org That place is an internet gold mine!

Chuck

 

[Silveraith]

Sounds good Chuck. Hope to see you out at the claim. As you know, they are open to public camping.

 

[Silveraith]

The other issue now becomes the number of claims owned. According to my readings of posting by this claim holder he may hold over 10 claims. His statement was he & his brother own dozens of claims. A dozen is 12 & if my math is correct owning dozen's would put him well over 10 claims. This would definitely be a major issue.

 

[Reed Lukens]

The other issue now becomes the number of claims owned. According to my readings of posting by this claim holder he may hold over 10 claims. His statement was he & his brother own dozens of claims. A dozen is 12 & if my math is correct owning dozen's would put him well over 10 claims. This would definitely be a major issue.

A bit of math, he and his brother = 20. Add wives, kids and mother in laws, etc. = more then enough.

 

[Silveraith]

Reed, that would depend on the size of the claims & who he has listed as owners. Also, if i'm not mistaken, "dozens" means at least 24. Our engineer said it's all very easy to check. We're not out to take anything away from him if the claims are good. Just make an offer.

 

[Goldwasher]

Reed, that would depend on the size of the claims & who he has listed as owners. Also, if i'm not mistaken, "dozens" means at least 24. Our engineer said it's all very easy to check. We're not out to take anything away from him if the claims are good. Just make an offer.

You can own all the claims you want.

You just don'T qualify for the maintenance fee waiver.

So , Chuck and his brother have to pay the maintenance fee for EVERY 20 acres or part of that they own.

I will be out in that area several times this summer. I'm just hours away and pretty much have a drop of the hat schedule to go see the Elephant whenever I need to.

I will gladly meet up with you guys in Nevada. when are you gonna be there?

Let me know I will meet up with you guys.

 

[Silveraith]

We want to be out there March 8. Maybe he'll let you test some areas for us. Then we can make him an offer. We'll help you any way we can including bringing in an excavator.