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  1. #16

    Mar 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanny in AB View Post
    Not unusual that backcountry areas are closed during heavy risk of fires up here, but if they're just randomly closing areas, that's a whole other issue.

    Hope they're not making things too difficult for all of you living in California, beautiful state indeed, lots of potential if handled properly.

    All the best,

    Lanny
    It’s a blanket hard closure of EDIT -> 20.2 <- million acres regardless of proximity to fires.

    I can understand public safety closures where there is an immediate danger.

    Got verification from my local forest....they control the surface access and can apparently sever that access anytime they feel it’s justified. So from their stand point, I must apply for a permit to access my mining claim even though there are no fires within 30 miles.

    The purpose of the closure was to protect natural resources and avoid entrapment.

    I still don’t think this is legal, but will let it rest I guess. I was hoping Clay would chime in with some case precedence regarding surface rights vs mineral estate. Doesn’t seem right that they can shut down the surface rights on such a large swath of public land.
    Last edited by IMAUDIGGER; Sep 11, 2020 at 08:04 AM.
    Back-of-the-boat and russau like this.
    This Communication HEREBY Serves as OFFICIAL NOTICE That All Messages in This Thread Have Been REVIEWED. FURTHERMORE, All Messages of Positive Nature SHALL IRREVOCABLY Be Considered "LIKED" INSOFAR as Applicable to This Forum. FINALLY, All Discrimination is Strictly PROHIBITED.

  2. #17
    bug
    bug is offline

    Jun 2008
    Nor Cal
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    I can definitely see these closures in future years becoming permanent on public lands. Code word will be, for the Common Good. Public use will be considered too much a liability except for maybe some pay to use regulated campgrounds.
    russau, Goldwasher and wildminer like this.

  3. #18
    us
    May 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMAUDIGGER View Post
    Let’s not forget this is a Federal Government issue.
    It's not a federal Gov. issue.

    It's state court that these things get caught up in.

    I live right where the public lands transition from BLM to F.S. Blm is actuall doing some brush work. The F.S. land is mixed with SPI. The environmental grouups fight them to log before they burn..then when the whole forest is dead from fire they fight them logging that as well.

    The forests are federal but it is fires on mixed jurisdiction land pushing the overall closures. We have had so many non locals out in the woods lately it is insane. Trash everywher illegal campfires. parking wherever they want.

    They still dont know the exact cause of dozens of these fires.

    Watching Blabbin Newscum sit in someones burned down yard and blame climate change is just plain horse crap.

    there is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOO!!!!!!!

    Much more the state(s) could be doing to proactively reduce and prevent the causation of and the overall potential size of these fires.

    Unfortunately there are people who make a living based on these "super fires" They wield a lot of power and influence.

    When CDF swithced to the CALFIRE model it got even worse.

    Calfire is the DMV of firefighting and it really shows.
    Last edited by Goldwasher; Sep 14, 2020 at 05:33 PM.

  4. #19

    Mar 2016
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    The decision to close public lands is a federal decision...the cause of all this mess is another discussion that most of us would probably actually agree on when global warming is taken out of the conversation.

    I’m currently sitting under mandatory evacuations for the second time in 2 months...Calfire actually does an excellent job around here putting fires out (especially when compared to these large federally managed fires). They hit them hard and fast with lots of air and ground resources.
    Problem is....they are perpetuating the tactic of eliminating fire from our environment, which we have already found out is a disastrous long term strategy.

    The feds switch crews out on a regular basis and I’m told by a division chief that the last 3 days of the shift..things are not done because they know the next shift will take care of it.
    Last edited by IMAUDIGGER; Sep 14, 2020 at 12:07 AM.
    This Communication HEREBY Serves as OFFICIAL NOTICE That All Messages in This Thread Have Been REVIEWED. FURTHERMORE, All Messages of Positive Nature SHALL IRREVOCABLY Be Considered "LIKED" INSOFAR as Applicable to This Forum. FINALLY, All Discrimination is Strictly PROHIBITED.

  5. #20

    Aug 2015
    Northeastern Sierra's
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    I'm hoping when all is said and done, reopened and maybe I'll be able to get to my creek on the claim without all the deadfall and dry fuel on the ground. The National forests need to manage timber better, then there wouldn't be the need for closures.
    Clay Diggins likes this.

  6. #21
    us
    May 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMAUDIGGER View Post
    The decision to close public lands is a federal decision...the cause of all this mess is another discussion that most of us would probably actually agree on when global warming is taken out of the conversation.

    I’m currently sitting under mandatory evacuations for the second time in 2 months...Calfire actually does an excellent job around here putting fires out (especially when compared to these large federally managed fires). They hit them hard and fast with lots of air and ground resources.
    Problem is....they are perpetuating the tactic of eliminating fire from our environment, which we have already found out is a disastrous long term strategy.

    The feds switch crews out on a regular basis and I’m told by a division chief that the last 3 days of the shift..things are not done because they know the next shift will take care of it.
    All wildfires in Ca. are fought with inter agency crews.

    Calfire is the lead. There are no "federal fires" Calfire has the jurisdiction and responsability for pretty much all wildland fires on public or private land. Including the 20 million federal acres during these fires.

    "The primary job of Cal Fire is to provide fire protection for the state responsibility area (SRA). SRA lands are defined by the Public Resource Code of the state of California first, as, "covered wholly or in part by forests or by trees producing or capable of producing forest products. Second, they are "those covered wholly or in part by timber, brush, undergrowth, or grass, whether of commercial value or not, which protect the soil from excessive erosion, ****** runoff of water or accelerate water percolation, if such lands are sources of water which is available for irrigation or for domestic or industrial use." Finally, they are "lands in areas which are principally used or useful for range or forage purposes, which are contiguous to" the lands described above. The State Board of Forestry and Fire Protection determines what lands are included in the SRA and their decisions have the force of law. (California Public Resource Code Section 4126)[citation needed]

    Pretty much all aircraft are Calfire. With Other units like National Guard attached as needed. Folded into the divisions on the lines and response zones. Maintained ,resupplied and directed via calfire attack bases at places like Mclellan and Quincy.

    Calfire was gonn leave those people at Mammoth Pool to accept whatever fate came their way. Luckily the National gaurd pilots werent having it. calfire called them back several times. Those crews have been awarded the distinguished Flying Cross. .

    Calfire is the Direct protection agency for over 30 million acres. Once the August fires kick in they are essentially at the helm of the over all strategey.
    Last edited by Goldwasher; Sep 14, 2020 at 07:17 PM.
    Clay Diggins and russau like this.

  7. #22
    us
    retired bumb and part time Hobo

    May 2005
    St. Louis, missouri
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    Thanks to all that are keeping us informed on these fires on several websites ,on the West Coast !! You guys are in our thoughts and prayers as we all go through this tragedy !!

  8. #23

    Aug 2015
    Northeastern Sierra's
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    All wildfires in Ca. are fought with inter agency crews.

    Calfire is the lead. There are no "federal fires" Calfire has the jurisdiction and responsability for pretty much all wildland fires on public or private land. Including the 20 million federal acres during these fires.

    "The primary job of Cal Fire is to provide fire protection for the state responsibility area (SRA). SRA lands are defined by the Public Resource Code of the state of California first, as, "covered wholly or in part by forests or by trees producing or capable of producing forest products. Second, they are "those covered wholly or in part by timber, brush, undergrowth, or grass, whether of commercial value or not, which protect the soil from excessive erosion, ****** runoff of water or accelerate water percolation, if such lands are sources of water which is available for irrigation or for domestic or industrial use." Finally, they are "lands in areas which are principally used or useful for range or forage purposes, which are contiguous to" the lands described above. The State Board of Forestry and Fire Protection determines what lands are included in the SRA and their decisions have the force of law. (California Public Resource Code Section 4126)[citation needed]

    Pretty much all aircraft are Calfire. With Other units like National Guard attached as needed. Folded into the divisions on the lines and response zones. Maintained ,resupplied and directed via calfire attack bases at places like Mclellan and Quincy.

    Calfire was gonn leave those people at Mammoth Pool to accept whatever fate came their way. Luckily the National gaurd pilots werent having it. calfire called them back several times. Those crews have been awarded the distinguished Flying Cross. .

    Calfire is the Direct protection agency for over 30 million acres. Once the August fires kick in they are essentially at the helm of the over all strategey.
    I have to disagree with you Goldwasher. Just go to the Plumas National Forest website. The North Complex fire is managed by the Forest Service except the west portion which is by Lake Oroville. That portion is managed by CalFire. They are jointly managing this fire and sharing resources. Also, it's the FS that decides when timber can be harvested from National forest lands, not the State of California.

  9. #24
    us
    Oct 2008
    Northern California
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    Up here in the northwest corner of California, on the Slater Fire, originating in Happy Camp, Calfire has essentially been shut out of the fight. One of their head guys stopped by our closure along Highway 199, in Del Norte County, complaining “if the forest service would just let them, they’d get this fire put out while the dead wind is here”. There’s been very little local wind for hours a day which he said is ideal for getting a handle on things.

    We at Caltrans have had Highways 199 closed for days. We set up new traffic control stations, in the heart of the fire area, just south of the California-Oregon border this morning and had special tree faller crews, loaders and other professional highway personnel in place to open the road. The last time I drove through the area, about noon, you could not see an oncoming rig, with headlights and emergency rotators flashing, 100 feet away. Often less than 50 feet.

    There is minimal fire fighting in our area on the California side of the fire. Our local Six Rivers National Forest Hot Shot crews were sent to the Oregon side so far.

    We will attempt to clear and open the highway to Oregon again tomorrow morning.

    Mike

  10. #25
    us
    Jan 2012
    Oregon Coast
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikep691 View Post
    I have to disagree with you Goldwasher. Just go to the Plumas National Forest website. The North Complex fire is managed by the Forest Service except the west portion which is by Lake Oroville. That portion is managed by CalFire. They are jointly managing this fire and sharing resources. Also, it's the FS that decides when timber can be harvested from National forest lands, not the State of California.
    You be careful out there Mike.... When all this insanity is over we are going to have to get together...
    delnorter likes this.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Thomas Jefferson

    Which is also why we have the second
    amendment.

  11. #26
    Charter Member
    us
    Look at the Historical Gold Mining photo albums on my page

    Jan 2013
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    The 14th has come and gone... yet a lot of the roads are still baracaded off and the USFS campgrounds are still closed in areas far away from the fires. As the Covid Scandal continues...

  12. #27

    Apr 2014
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    830 times
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    The appearence of an all encompassing USFS road closure(s) are taking place in portions of Oregon aswell. Although not clearly stated on the road closure notice, the Mineral Estate Grantee's (mining claim holder's) access is one of the exceptions. In the road closure notice it states 'This prohibition is in addition to the general prohibitions in 36 C.F.R. Part 261, Subpart A.' Reading 36 C.F.R. Part 261.1 Scope, (b) Nothing in this part shall preclude activities as authorized by the Wilderness Act of 1964 or the U.S. Mining Laws Act of 1872 as amended. I have personally presented/used this (printed out information) to gain access past manned and barricaded road to access to my Mineral Estate. This, in the midts of on going fire fighting efford in the area. I didn't do this to prove a point. I had things (prospecting/mining related) to protect from fire on the property. This was used periodically during the road closure times to asses danger to the property.
    Last edited by M.E.G.; Sep 16, 2020 at 11:53 AM.
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  13. #28

    Mar 2016
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    This state wide public land closure is clearly illegal, but backed up by illegal federal regulations...or at least illegally applied federal regulations.

    The regulations HAVE to follow the law they are implementing...that is a no brainer isn’t it?
    Clay Diggins and russau like this.
    This Communication HEREBY Serves as OFFICIAL NOTICE That All Messages in This Thread Have Been REVIEWED. FURTHERMORE, All Messages of Positive Nature SHALL IRREVOCABLY Be Considered "LIKED" INSOFAR as Applicable to This Forum. FINALLY, All Discrimination is Strictly PROHIBITED.

  14. #29

    Mar 2016
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    Calfire typically has agreements with the federal government to extend their SRA to federal lands with mixed private property or homes located within the forest. Otherwise it’s a USFS show.
    This Communication HEREBY Serves as OFFICIAL NOTICE That All Messages in This Thread Have Been REVIEWED. FURTHERMORE, All Messages of Positive Nature SHALL IRREVOCABLY Be Considered "LIKED" INSOFAR as Applicable to This Forum. FINALLY, All Discrimination is Strictly PROHIBITED.

  15. #30

    Mar 2014
    501
    769 times
    Quote Originally Posted by IMAUDIGGER View Post
    This state wide public land closure is clearly illegal, but backed up by illegal federal regulations...or at least illegally applied federal regulations.

    The regulations HAVE to follow the law they are implementing...that is a no brainer isn’t it?
    We are in California... this shouldn’t surprise you in the least. They’ve never let anything as trivial as “legality” slow them down in the least.
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