Public Land Closure Effective TODAY

[IMAUDIGGER]

Forest Regional Order 20-10 (No Trespassing on California Public Lands managed by USDA Forest Service)


Regional Order No. 20-10 USDA Forest Service Pacific Southwest Region Emergency Closure Order
Pursuant to 16 U.S.C. 551 and 36 C.F.R. 261.50(a) and (b), and to provide for public safety and protect natural resources, the following acts are prohibited on National Forest System lands within the Pacific Southwest Region. This Order is effective from September 9, 2020, at 5:00 p.m. Pacific Time, through September 14, 2020.
1. Going into or being upon National Forest System lands within the National Forests listed below.
a. b. c. d. e. f. g. h. i. j.
36 C.F.R.
2. Being on
a. b. c. d. e. f. g. h. i.
Eldorado National Forest
Tahoe National Forest
Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit Plumas National Forest
Lassen National Forest
Mendocino National Forest
Klamath National Forest
Six Rivers National Forest Shasta-Trinity National Forest Modoc National Forest
261.52(e).
a National Forest System road within the National Forests listed below.
Eldorado National Forest
Tahoe National Forest
Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit Plumas National Forest
Lassen National Forest
Mendocino National Forest
Klamath National Forest
Six Rivers National Forest Shasta-Trinity National Forest
j.
36 C.F.R. 261.54(e).
3. Being on
a. b. c. d. e.
a National Forest System trail within the National Forests listed below.
Eldorado National Forest
Tahoe National Forest
Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit Plumas National Forest
Lassen National Forest
Modoc National Forest

f. Mendocino National Forest
g. Klamath National Forest
h. Six Rivers National Forest
i. Shasta-Trinity National Forest
j. Modoc National Forest
36 C.F.R. 261.55(a).
Pursuant to 36 C.F.R. 261.50(e), the following persons are exempt from this Order:
1. Persons with Forest Service Permit No. FS-7700-48 (Permit for Use of Roads, Trails, or Areas Restricted by Regulation or Order), specifically exempting them from this Order
2. Any Federal, State, or local officer, or member of an organized rescue or fire fighting force in the performance of an official duty.
3. Persons with a Forest Service non-special-use written authorization to conduct non-recreational activities, such as harvesting timber or forest products, or grazing livestock.
4. Owners or lessees of land, to the extent necessary to access their land.
5. Residents, to the extent necessary to access their residences.
6. Persons engaged in a business, trade, or occupation are not exempt from the prohibitions listed above, but may use National Forest System roads to the extent necessary to carry out their business, trade, or occupation.
These prohibitions are in addition to the general prohibitions contained in 36 C.F.R. Part 261, Subpart A.
A violation of these prohibitions is punishable by a fine of not more than $5,000 for an individual or $10,000 for an organization, or imprisonment for not more than 6 months, or both. 16 U.S.C. 551 and 18 U.S.C. 3559, 3571, and 3581.
Done at Vallejo, California, this 9th day of September 2020.
RANDY MOORE
Regional Forester Pacific Southwest Region
X
Signed by: RANDY MOORE
This Order supersedes Regional Order No. 20-09, signed on September 7, 2020.
==================
How does this affect prospecting and mining on federal mining claims?
Personally I think this is a HUGE leap that will likely lead to down the slippery slope if not nipped in the butt quickly. No trespassing on 33 million acres of public land with the swipe of a pen by a non elected federal employee?

Most trails (and many roads) around here existed prior to the USFS and enjoy congressionally granted right of ways. Don’t see how the USFS can suspend those senior rights.

I get the thought behind the closure...too many idiots starting too many fires...but where does it end?

 

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[Goldwasher]

The decision to close public lands is a federal decision...the cause of all this mess is another discussion that most of us would probably actually agree on when global warming is taken out of the conversation.

I’m currently sitting under mandatory evacuations for the second time in 2 months...Calfire actually does an excellent job around here putting fires out (especially when compared to these large federally managed fires). They hit them hard and fast with lots of air and ground resources.
Problem is....they are perpetuating the tactic of eliminating fire from our environment, which we have already found out is a disastrous long term strategy.

The feds switch crews out on a regular basis and I’m told by a division chief that the last 3 days of the shift..things are not done because they know the next shift will take care of it.

All wildfires in Ca. are fought with inter agency crews.

Calfire is the lead. There are no "federal fires" Calfire has the jurisdiction and responsability for pretty much all wildland fires on public or private land. Including the 20 million federal acres during these fires.

"The primary job of Cal Fire is to provide fire protection for the state responsibility area (SRA). SRA lands are defined by the Public Resource Code of the state of California first, as, "covered wholly or in part by forests or by trees producing or capable of producing forest products. Second, they are "those covered wholly or in part by timber, brush, undergrowth, or grass, whether of commercial value or not, which protect the soil from excessive erosion, ****** runoff of water or accelerate water percolation, if such lands are sources of water which is available for irrigation or for domestic or industrial use." Finally, they are "lands in areas which are principally used or useful for range or forage purposes, which are contiguous to" the lands described above. The State Board of Forestry and Fire Protection determines what lands are included in the SRA and their decisions have the force of law. (California Public Resource Code Section 4126)[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]

Pretty much all aircraft are Calfire. With Other units like National Guard attached as needed. Folded into the divisions on the lines and response zones. Maintained ,resupplied and directed via calfire attack bases at places like Mclellan and Quincy.

Calfire was gonn leave those people at Mammoth Pool to accept whatever fate came their way. Luckily the National gaurd pilots werent having it. calfire called them back several times. Those crews have been awarded the distinguished Flying Cross. .

Calfire is the Direct protection agency for over 30 million acres. Once the August fires kick in they are essentially at the helm of the over all strategey.

 

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[russau]

Thanks to all that are keeping us informed on these fires on several websites ,on the West Coast !! You guys are in our thoughts and prayers as we all go through this tragedy !!

 

[mikep691]

All wildfires in Ca. are fought with inter agency crews.

Calfire is the lead. There are no "federal fires" Calfire has the jurisdiction and responsability for pretty much all wildland fires on public or private land. Including the 20 million federal acres during these fires.

"The primary job of Cal Fire is to provide fire protection for the state responsibility area (SRA). SRA lands are defined by the Public Resource Code of the state of California first, as, "covered wholly or in part by forests or by trees producing or capable of producing forest products. Second, they are "those covered wholly or in part by timber, brush, undergrowth, or grass, whether of commercial value or not, which protect the soil from excessive erosion, ****** runoff of water or accelerate water percolation, if such lands are sources of water which is available for irrigation or for domestic or industrial use." Finally, they are "lands in areas which are principally used or useful for range or forage purposes, which are contiguous to" the lands described above. The State Board of Forestry and Fire Protection determines what lands are included in the SRA and their decisions have the force of law. (California Public Resource Code Section 4126)[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]

Pretty much all aircraft are Calfire. With Other units like National Guard attached as needed. Folded into the divisions on the lines and response zones. Maintained ,resupplied and directed via calfire attack bases at places like Mclellan and Quincy.

Calfire was gonn leave those people at Mammoth Pool to accept whatever fate came their way. Luckily the National gaurd pilots werent having it. calfire called them back several times. Those crews have been awarded the distinguished Flying Cross. .

Calfire is the Direct protection agency for over 30 million acres. Once the August fires kick in they are essentially at the helm of the over all strategey.

I have to disagree with you Goldwasher. Just go to the Plumas National Forest website. The North Complex fire is managed by the Forest Service except the west portion which is by Lake Oroville. That portion is managed by CalFire. They are jointly managing this fire and sharing resources. Also, it's the FS that decides when timber can be harvested from National forest lands, not the State of California.

 

[delnorter]

Up here in the northwest corner of California, on the Slater Fire, originating in Happy Camp, Calfire has essentially been shut out of the fight. One of their head guys stopped by our closure along Highway 199, in Del Norte County, complaining “if the forest service would just let them, they’d get this fire put out while the dead wind is here”. There’s been very little local wind for hours a day which he said is ideal for getting a handle on things.

We at Caltrans have had Highways 199 closed for days. We set up new traffic control stations, in the heart of the fire area, just south of the California-Oregon border this morning and had special tree faller crews, loaders and other professional highway personnel in place to open the road. The last time I drove through the area, about noon, you could not see an oncoming rig, with headlights and emergency rotators flashing, 100 feet away. Often less than 50 feet.

There is minimal fire fighting in our area on the California side of the fire. Our local Six Rivers National Forest Hot Shot crews were sent to the Oregon side so far.

We will attempt to clear and open the highway to Oregon again tomorrow morning.

Mike

 

[johnedoe]

I have to disagree with you Goldwasher. Just go to the Plumas National Forest website. The North Complex fire is managed by the Forest Service except the west portion which is by Lake Oroville. That portion is managed by CalFire. They are jointly managing this fire and sharing resources. Also, it's the FS that decides when timber can be harvested from National forest lands, not the State of California.

You be careful out there Mike.... When all this insanity is over we are going to have to get together...

 

[Reed Lukens]

The 14th has come and gone... yet a lot of the roads are still baracaded off and the USFS campgrounds are still closed in areas far away from the fires. As the Covid Scandal continues...

 

[M.E.G.]

The appearence of an all encompassing USFS road closure(s) are taking place in portions of Oregon aswell. Although not clearly stated on the road closure notice, the Mineral Estate Grantee's (mining claim holder's) access is one of the exceptions. In the road closure notice it states 'This prohibition is in addition to the general prohibitions in 36 C.F.R. Part 261, Subpart A.' Reading 36 C.F.R. Part 261.1 Scope, (b) Nothing in this part shall preclude activities as authorized by the Wilderness Act of 1964 or the U.S. Mining Laws Act of 1872 as amended. I have personally presented/used this (printed out information) to gain access past manned and barricaded road to access to my Mineral Estate. This, in the midts of on going fire fighting efford in the area. I didn't do this to prove a point. I had things (prospecting/mining related) to protect from fire on the property. This was used periodically during the road closure times to asses danger to the property.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

This state wide public land closure is clearly illegal, but backed up by illegal federal regulations...or at least illegally applied federal regulations.

The regulations HAVE to follow the law they are implementing...that is a no brainer isn’t it?

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Calfire typically has agreements with the federal government to extend their SRA to federal lands with mixed private property or homes located within the forest. Otherwise it’s a USFS show.

 

[Madmox]

This state wide public land closure is clearly illegal, but backed up by illegal federal regulations...or at least illegally applied federal regulations.

The regulations HAVE to follow the law they are implementing...that is a no brainer isn’t it?

We are in California... this shouldn’t surprise you in the least. They’ve never let anything as trivial as “legality” slow them down in the least.

 

[johnedoe]

The 14th has come and gone... yet a lot of the roads are still baracaded off and the USFS campgrounds are still closed in areas far away from the fires. As the Covid Scandal continues...

Shamdemic......... And scandal is exactly right.....
Take it easy out there and be careful.
When you going to get back over this way?
Maybe we can hit the beach when you do.

 

[Reed Lukens]

Shamdemic......... And scandal is exactly right.....
Take it easy out there and be careful.
When you going to get back over this way?
Maybe we can hit the beach when you do.

We were supposed to be there already but blm is taking their time this year with my claim paperwork... so we aren't going to make it up there this month like we had planned.

 

[mikep691]

You be careful out there Mike.... When all this insanity is over we are going to have to get together...

It might not be until late spring before I can access my claim as it is right in the middle of the burn area. Though the landscape may be somewhat inhospitable, we try to have a group outing on Memorial weekend. I'll put you on the list for year year.

 

[Goldwasher]

I have to disagree with you Goldwasher. Just go to the Plumas National Forest website. The North Complex fire is managed by the Forest Service except the west portion which is by Lake Oroville. That portion is managed by CalFire. They are jointly managing this fire and sharing resources. Also, it's the FS that decides when timber can be harvested from National forest lands, not the State of California.

thats exactly how I said they fight them. I'm right down the rd. from Calfire and CCC camp. Know quite a few firefighters for different agencies.

Feds manage the surface resource. However they are absolutely affected by state laws and attitude.

If it was as simple as you state we would all be "legally" dredgin our "federal" claims

Plus F.S timberland is almost always mixed with private timber holdings . The overall harvest plans for regions affect both.

 

[Goldwasher]

Calfire typically has agreements with the federal government to extend their SRA to federal lands with mixed private property or homes located within the forest. Otherwise it’s a USFS show.

It's not an agreement it is their mandate. that is why I posted it.

 

[Goldwasher]

They have phased in several openings here in El Dorado Tahoe and Toyabi

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

It's not an agreement it is their mandate. that is why I posted it.

That's just what a Calfire employee told me. Special agreement to cover fire prevention in specific limited areas of federal lands.
I listen to scanners and follow all of the local fires during the summers.
They always ask first responders to give coordinates so they can verify SRA

I'm no expert and can't argue definitively.
Maybe it varies from area to area.

 

[Reed Lukens]

It’s a blanket hard closure of EDIT -> 20.2 <- million acres regardless of proximity to fires.

I can understand public safety closures where there is an immediate danger.

Got verification from my local forest....they control the surface access and can apparently sever that access anytime they feel it’s justified. So from their stand point, I must apply for a permit to access my mining claim even though there are no fires within 30 miles.

The purpose of the closure was to protect natural resources and avoid entrapment.

I still don’t think this is legal, but will let it rest I guess. I was hoping Clay would chime in with some case precedence regarding surface rights vs mineral estate. Doesn’t seem right that they can shut down the surface rights on such a large swath of public land.

I guess it depends on who you talk too. Yesterday, I called TNF Ranger stations in Camptonville and Nevada City about my mining claim access and was told just to have my claim paperwork with me in case any LEO'S ask us if we have a reason to be here and to let them know that we had the OK to carry on from the USFS.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

I guess it depends on who you talk too. Yesterday, I called TNF Ranger stations in Camptonville and Nevada City about my mining claim access and was told just to have my claim paperwork with me in case any LEO'S ask us if we have a reason to be here and to let them know that we had the OK to carry on from the USFS.

Reed, EXACTLY...the response was probably given to me by someone with no input from their legal council.
No risk in saying no...until a citation is issued and someone takes it to court.

I’m busy with fire stuff anyway, but it kind of rubs me the wrong way. I don’t care how good the intentions are.

 

[mikep691]

I guess I should touch base with PNF as well. But at this point in time there are still hot spots on or near my claim. I'm reasonably certain my answer will be NO until the fire activity is over.