Filling a S.M.W. versus paying full claim Maintenance fees
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Thread: Filling a S.M.W. versus paying full claim Maintenance fees

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  1. #1
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    Ed Tracy

    Jan 2015
    Shoreline,wa
    Equinox 800
    722
    1264 times
    Prospecting

    Filling a S.M.W. versus paying full claim Maintenance fee's

    First I always pay full Maintenances on my 3 claims, expensive but the claims do pay for themselves, I have been on MY Land Matters and something new is happening, All the claims around my 3 are not updated for 2021 except mine, all read as 2020 .If you filed a SMW check with the BLM because some idiot may take this as your claim may be open for filing, it has happened before.
    Reed Lukens and winners58 like this.

  2. #2
    us
    Mar 2012
    Idaho
    Gold Hog Stream Sluice
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    That's really not new, just BLM's inefficiency at timely records updating.
    Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
    Visit my Idaho Gold Prospecting Blog at Bedrock or Bust
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  3. #3
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    Mike

    Dec 2014
    Bodfish and Marin county CA
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    I have noticed this also -- seems like if you pay the fee it gets updated soon.
    The ones that file SMW don't seem to update for a long time.
    Maybe this will change with the new MLRS system. " hoping "
    Or it looks like money talks

    Cheers Mike
    Stay thirsty my friends

  4. #4

    Aug 2015
    Northeastern Sierra's
    757
    1496 times
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodfish Mike View Post
    I have noticed this also -- seems like if you pay the fee it gets updated soon.
    The ones that file SMW don't seem to update for a long time.
    Maybe this will change with the new MLRS system. " hoping "
    Or it looks like money talks

    Cheers Mike
    Pretty sure money does talk. They have stacks of SMW's to go through.

  5. #5
    us
    Ed Tracy

    Jan 2015
    Shoreline,wa
    Equinox 800
    722
    1264 times
    Prospecting
    Must be a virus thing because this is the first year of years of monitoring the claims around mine that SMW's weren't posted by the end of January but fortunately for the SMW fillers if you check on the status of a claim it will list that a SMW has been filled.
    Clay Diggins likes this.

  6. #6
    Make America Great Again

    Apr 2013
    Oregon
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    seen lots of small miners wavers not updated if they were close to the end of Aug. and then No updates.
    filed assessments on my claims took a month to see "money received' that was stuck on there for awhile.
    One claim I was watching didn't update along with others, went to the county recorder on Dec. 30th no assessment filed.
    so I filed on it, others that show no updates on BLM had assessments filed, so I assume they had issues that they were correcting.
    et1955 likes this.
    " A pessimist is an optimist with experience "

  7. #7
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
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    Quote Originally Posted by et1955 View Post
    First I always pay full Maintenances on my 3 claims, expensive but the claims do pay for themselves, I have been on MY Land Matters and something new is happening, All the claims around my 3 are not updated for 2021 except mine, all read as 2020 .If you filed a SMW check with the BLM because some idiot may take this as your claim may be open for filing, it has happened before.
    i save about $700 bucks filing a SMW. Initially our payment shows up on one of the claims SRP as "monies recieved" with the amount paid Divide by $15 and thats how many claims are covered.

    I always look up the customer info for any claim I'm investigating. To see what other claims they have and to see if payments for all are just listed on one claims SRP.

    Also there will be a proof of labor or Notice of intent to hold at the county that needs to be verified.

  8. #8
    us
    Ed Tracy

    Jan 2015
    Shoreline,wa
    Equinox 800
    722
    1264 times
    Prospecting
    GW you missed the point, 2 of my claims are very rich and coveted, I will not take a chance of someone over filling because the BLM did not do there job. On the claim next to my richest claim now has 2 owners thanks to an Ebay seller who did not do the proper research, it is strange every year they file a SMW, it is funny but my claims are safe, because the BLM posts immediately that I paid the FMF's fees and the Siskiyou county recorders fee plus the Ca. plus the SB2 75$ tax, peace of mind and will I also add as the price of gold goes up on gold there will be people trying to take advantage and not due there due diligence and only rely on BLM reports only and over file claims to sell them, that is what happened to the claim next to mine. I just checked again on MLM. and all the claims around mine that filed an SMW still have not been verified but mine are. You saved 700$ but I make that in 3 days, 15 hours of work and I average 1 gram an hour mining here in Western Washington, panning and sluicing, my number one rule is that my mining must pay for my mining.
    russau and KevinInColorado like this.

  9. #9
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, .35 gallons of water per minute.
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    13003 times
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    Quote Originally Posted by et1955 View Post
    GW you missed the point, 2 of my claims are very rich and coveted, I will not take a chance of someone over filling because the BLM did not do there job. On the claim next to my richest claim now has 2 owners thanks to an Ebay seller who did not do the proper research, it is strange every year they file a SMW, it is funny but my claims are safe, because the BLM posts immediately that I paid the FMF's fees and the Siskiyou county recorders fee plus the Ca. plus the SB2 75$ tax, peace of mind and will I also add as the price of gold goes up on gold there will be people trying to take advantage and not due there due diligence and only rely on BLM reports only and over file claims to sell them, that is what happened to the claim next to mine. I just checked again on MLM. and all the claims around mine that filed an SMW still have not been verified but mine are. You saved 700$ but I make that in 3 days, 15 hours of work and I average 1 gram an hour mining here in Western Washington, panning and sluicing, my number one rule is that my mining must pay for my mining.
    If you file with BLM and record at the county. It doesnt matter if it shows up on a computer screen as paid or not. You have your stamped papers and reciept and no overfiling will take your ground period.

    It may end up being a hassle but no judge will uphold that junior filing. You may lose some time standing in court. But, you will be able to recoup any legal fees.

    Paying the maintenance fee gets you no special protection.

    In fact it keeps you a step away from perfecting your claim.

    That actually makes you more likely to lose it than you ever could because of a topfile.

    Last edited by Goldwasher; Feb 23, 2021 at 08:31 PM.
    winners58, russau, bug and 1 others like this.

  10. #10
    bug
    bug is offline

    Jun 2008
    Nor Cal
    228
    364 times
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    Still waiting on my 3 claims also. I always hand delivered the small miners/assessment forms in past years, and the LR database was updated immediately.
    This year with mail in, the only update showing is the $45 monies received line, on one of the claims. It looks bad, but like Goldwasher wrote, the law is on our side, should someone try to snake their way in there with a topfile
    Goldwasher likes this.

  11. #11
    us
    Ed Tracy

    Jan 2015
    Shoreline,wa
    Equinox 800
    722
    1264 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    If you file with BLM and record at the county. It doesnt matter if it shows up on a computer screen as paid or not. You have your stamped papers and reciept and no overfiling will take your ground period.

    It may end up being a hassle but no judge will uphold that junior filing. You may lose some time standing in court. But, you will be able to recoup any legal fees.

    Paying the maintenance fee gets you no special protection.

    In fact it keeps you a step away from perfecting your claim.

    That actually makes you more likely to lose it than you ever could because of a topfile.

    You missed the point again, from what I have seen from over fillers is that they only deal the BLM and that is the key to over fillers, they don't check with the county recorders office because they don't know to do that or they know but they are finding these claims to sell to the ignorant beginner's and we all know that the BLM will take the money and not check on validity of the filling. It is up to the filler to due there due diligence on this but the BLM will still record the over filler as the claim owner without checking. It does matter that if shows up on the computer if it is paid, it deters the the over fillers , think about it , if you are looking for a claim on the internet and scanning the BLM for possible closed claims, they are always waiting for the opportunity, What will the over fillers choose to file on and sell on EBAY, not mine. Over filling due to the BLM's lack of claim updates is a major problem and I just checked all the claims around mine again on MyLandMatters and all are still in question. The law is on our side but why take the chance, going to court very expensive and stressful. G.W. you stated that there no special protection for paying the maintenance fee well I know one Ebay'r that over filed on the claim next to mine because they filed a SMW and the blm took there time to update the status of the claim, I know he is always watching the status of my claim so I don,t take chances.
    Goodyguy likes this.

  12. #12
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, .35 gallons of water per minute.
    5,960
    13003 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by et1955 View Post
    You missed the point again, from what I have seen from over fillers is that they only deal the BLM and that is the key to over fillers, they don't check with the county recorders office because they don't know to do that or they know but they are finding these claims to sell to the ignorant beginner's and we all know that the BLM will take the money and not check on validity of the filling. It is up to the filler to due there due diligence on this but the BLM will still record the over filler as the claim owner without checking. It does matter that if shows up on the computer if it is paid, it deters the the over fillers , think about it , if you are looking for a claim on the internet and scanning the BLM for possible closed claims, they are always waiting for the opportunity, What will the over fillers choose to file on and sell on EBAY, not mine. Over filling due to the BLM's lack of claim updates is a major problem and I just checked all the claims around mine again on MyLandMatters and all are still in question. The law is on our side but why take the chance, going to court very expensive and stressful. G.W. you stated that there no special protection for paying the maintenance fee well I know one Ebay'r that over filed on the claim next to mine because they filed a SMW and the blm took there time to update the status of the claim, I know he is always watching the status of my claim so I don,t take chances.
    I'm not missing any point. The overfiles are not valid. So, no one lost their claim. There's no chance being taken. Paper filing is illegal too. it does catch up to the flippers at some point.

    We hold 170+ acres less than fifteen minutes from home. There is no logical reason to dish out 165 bucks for every twenty acres. We have nothing to gain by giving that money to BLM. Especially since one day per claim takes care of our annual labor.

    The fact is if you search BLM you will never see the whole file unless you do a customer report and see if their payment is listed on one claim for any and all that a person holds.

    Of course people will make mistakes . Of course there will be claim flippers.

    But,if you meet the requirements of the law in regards to your annual recording and filing. No one is going to take your claim from you.

    pay maintenance fees every year...the Gov. decides to withdraw an area....say goodbye to your claims.

    I am not going to chance that.
    delnorter, Clay Diggins and russau like this.

  13. #13
    us
    Ed Tracy

    Jan 2015
    Shoreline,wa
    Equinox 800
    722
    1264 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    I'm not missing any point. The overfiles are not valid. So, no one lost their claim. There's no chance being taken. Paper filing is illegal too. it does catch up to the flippers at some point.

    We hold 170+ acres less than fifteen minutes from home. There is no logical reason to dish out 165 bucks for every twenty acres. We have nothing to gain by giving that money to BLM. Especially since one day per claim takes care of our annual labor.

    The fact is if you search BLM you will never see the whole file unless you do a customer report and see if their payment is listed on one claim for any and all that a person holds.

    Of course people will make mistakes . Of course there will be claim flippers.

    But,if you meet the requirements of the law in regards to your annual recording and filing. No one is going to take your claim from you.

    pay maintenance fees every year...the Gov. decides to withdraw an area....say goodbye to your claims.

    I am not going to chance that.
    There are claim flippers and people that make mistakes and then you end up in court but you are lucky you don't hold claims that are being watched like mine are, thanks to Clay I learned how to protect these rare rich claims and as you said I am not going to take a chance either, I can't take the chance you take by filing an SMW, this guy watching my claims is always a threat , so that is why I do what I do, he is the one who over filed the claim next to mine.

  14. #14
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, .35 gallons of water per minute.
    5,960
    13003 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by et1955 View Post
    There are claim flippers and people that make mistakes and then you end up in court but you are lucky you don't hold claims that are being watched like mine are, thanks to Clay I learned how to protect these rare rich claims and as you said I am not going to take a chance either, I can't take the chance you take by filing an SMW, this guy watching my claims is always a threat , so that is why I do what I do, he is the one who over filed the claim next to mine.
    Believe me my claims are well watched and someone would snatch them up right away if they had the chance.

  15. #15
    us
    Ed Tracy

    Jan 2015
    Shoreline,wa
    Equinox 800
    722
    1264 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    Believe me my claims are well watched and someone would snatch them up right away if they had the chance.
    3 claims above mine were refiled and resold on ebay several times over 6 years by this flipper, the claim next to mine according to the BLM has 2 owners now, feel sorry for them. My claim on the N.Fork of the Salmon river borders the Eddy Gulch complex where over a million ounces were pulled out. Good luck on your way that you trust that keeps your claims safe, I will continue to do my my way, we miners are a stubborn lot, LOL

 

 
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