!!!! HELP WITH BIG ELECTROLYSIS CELL TO RECOVER GOLD FROM CIANIDE LEACH!!!!!!

[distribuidorUSA]

Hello everyone... I'm starting a small mining op in June.and Im thinking about using the Cianide Leach process to dissolve Gold and Silver from Ore that have -100 size particles.. I think I'll use Electrolysis to refine Gold and silver from the leach solution.. how do I separate the Gold from the Silver and any other contaminants like Copper or any other metal. I'm thinking about doing 50 gallons minimum at a time. I'm new on this and would like to know what materials to use..like what container to use,what amps to use for that size batch..I'm thinking about using a gold Cathode since I want to have only gold since the beginning. but what is the best material to use for the Anode..and what additives to use if any on the pregnant solution to make the process more efficient.. I will only have 12V batteries as a source for electricity.. any input will be greatly appreciated... and promise to post pictures of any Gold we recover..thank you in advance.. God bless.

 

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[KevinInColorado]

I would check out the gold refining forum to learn more about these processes. Lots to learn here about chemistry, electro-chemistry and safety too!

From your note it seems you have little knowledge but much potential. Time to hit the books!
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/index.php?sid=215c8f8e16fca00ab8520acd8cfcc3ba

 

[ARC]

Why will you only be on 12 volt ?

Middle of nowhere ?

Sounds like you should do some serious homework before dealing with chemicals... especially ones like you mention.
And what are you gonna do with those when you are done is what I am really curious about.

I hope you aren't one of those guys that has not planned that part out.
And just dumps it.

God forbid.

 

[distribuidorUSA]

I'm Hitting the internet left and right Kevin..but much of the stuff it's too technical.. for now I'm gonna be using the gold cube and a small amalgamator to see how I do first..but due to the vast deposit I plan to work only a Leaching process will make a small dent on it..

 

[distribuidorUSA]

No AARC..I'm conscious about the environment.. I can't operate a heap leach project for now but I was more interested of starting with something like a big water tank in any case I will recycle the solution recharging it with fresh Cyanide.. this place is off the Grid so for know I will be using batteries for the water pump .I'm starting this thing out this Year and hopefully it will grow over the years. anyone who wants to joint me is welcome..especially with some experience. rewards will be awesome Guaranteed!!!!.

 

[GoldpannerDave]

Hello everyone... I'm starting a small mining op in June.and Im thinking about using the Cianide Leach process to dissolve Gold and Silver from Ore that have -100 size particles.. I think I'll use Electrolysis to refine Gold and silver from the leach solution.. how do I separate the Gold from the Silver and any other contaminants like Copper or any other metal. I'm thinking about doing 50 gallons minimum at a time. I'm new on this and would like to know what materials to use..like what container to use,what amps to use for that size batch..I'm thinking about using a gold Cathode since I want to have only gold since the beginning. but what is the best material to use for the Anode..and what additives to use if any on the pregnant solution to make the process more efficient.. I will only have 12V batteries as a source for electricity.. any input will be greatly appreciated... and promise to post pictures of any Gold we recover..thank you in advance.. God bless.

Electrolysis with only 12 volt batteries? I don't think so. Your power demands will most likely stress any battery set-up you get. You could use activated carbon (charcoal, usually from coconuts) to pull the gold from the cyanide solution and then burn the carbon to get the gold. However, that will get expensive since normally the carbon is reused in most leach systems using CIP (carbon in pulp).

For cyanide, you must keep the solution basic--pH of over 10 generally. Otherwise you generate HCN gas which is used in gas chambers!! You will want to recycle the cyanide solution also, just like the activated carbon. There is a fair amount of chemistry involved. You could destroy the pregnant cyanide solution with sodium thiosulfate, which will drop the gold. But that uses up both cyanide and thiosulfate; again, you have to consider the costs...and the waste solutions generated.

The cyanide will pull gold, silver, copper and other metais. Generally in a large operation, they use acid to dissolve the other metals and leave the gold behind. Big problem for a small miner to deal with the acids and the acid waste. Instead you could use an ion exchange column that pulls the gold preferentially to the other metals. How much other stuff (silver, copper, lead, zinc, etc.) do you have in your ore? Do you know yet?

When you strip the ion exchange column, you will still need to get the gold. Again, you can burn the column material, but other than as a small test, this will be expensive.

You can drop the gold from the cyanide solution using zinc (the Merrill-Crowe Process), but there are again drawbacks. First you have to remove the oxygen; second you drop all the metals in your ore, plus some zinc powder gets mixed in with the gold. At this point, most folks send the resulting metal sludge to a refinery. You still have zinc cyanide to reprocess to get your zinc and your cyanide back.

Maybe this helps some. Personally, I would go with the ion exchange column and then you need to figure out how to get the gold from the solution that you strip from the column. Activated carbon (charcoal) is cheaper up front, but more costly to reactivate than the ion exchange column. Both need some processing to get ready for your next run.

PVC is often used; you cannot use metal pipe (or containers) for obvious reasons. I have seen an electrolysis vat that used fiberglass and stainless I think it was, for both anode and cathode, which had steel spindles. Steel wool was put on the cathode stainless spindles. The gold deposited on the steel wool which then was smelted to recover the gold (the iron ended up in the slag on top). The cables to this vat were as big as your wrist; don't think 12 volt batteries will work.

HTH. Dave

 

[galenrog]

Dave and Kevin give good advice. In addition to the Gold Refining Forum, you might consider looking at some of the dozens of mining forums available. Also, if you are not familiar with sodium cyanide, I believe you should be getting your advice from somewhere other than YouTube. While there are a few good tutorials out there, most of YouTube will leave out much of the essential safety considerations and actually leave out important part of the process. Thus the saying: YouTube will kill you.

Time for coffee.

 

[GoldpannerDave]

Well, a few more details. You make a NaOH (sodium hydroxide) or Ca(OH)2 (calcium hydroxide; AKA slaked lime) solution first. The pH needs to be very high; perhaps about 13. Use about 5.5 grams of NaOH per liter (about twice as much for the calcium hydroxide). Be sure to use DI or distilled water to make your solutions. Get it dissolved and add about 4 grams of NaCN (sodium cyanide). Monitor pH, it should be at least 11 still. If not, add solid NaOH or Ca(OH)2 a tiny, tiny bit at a time, stirring and watching the pH meter. Once it all stabilizes, you are ready to add your ore. Be sure to monitor it after the ore is added to insure pH stays about 11 or higher. If not, add more solid hydroxide. Buy the cheapest grade of hydroxide available. This may be the calcium hydroxide, but remember you use twice as much, so if they are the same price, buy the NaOH.

Safety--do not get any of the hydroxide solid or solutions on you. Wash immediately with lots of water and even vinegar to neutralize. You can also use sodium thiosulfate to kill the cyanide solution if things get out of hand. Make up a dilute solution ahead of time as a safety precaution. Keep that pH meter going to make sure your solution stays basic!!! No sense gassing yourself due to lack of attention to detail.

To add your ore, put some of your powdered ore in a glass beaker; less than half full. Add your cyanide solution to about 3/4 full and stir. A magnetic stirring bar and apparatus is the easiest but you can stir by hand (this will get old quickly, so get the equipment). Monitor pH for the first half hour or so and then you can let it sit overnight with the magnetic stirrer still going (usually in a chemical fume hood just in case--in the middle of nowhere, well away from people, animals, wild critters, etc.). This part would bother me if I did not have a hood, and you likely will not. If you used finely powdered ore, this should dissolve the all gold and silver and some other metals like copper, etc.

At this point, you are ready to go to using activated carbon, ion exchange, direct electrolysis, Merrill-Crowe, etc. I don't have any good advice to give you other than use activated charcoal or ion exchange columns, but after that you still have problems with just 12 volts batteries.

Again, I hope this helps.

 

[GoldpannerDave]

You can get 4 lbs of slaked lime at Walmart (garden shop) for about $4. This is a great buy and more than you likely will need since you are getting over 1800 grams and only use 10-11 grams per liter of solution. Of course, if all goes well, you might eventually scale up.

I found NaOH for about $5 for 2 lbs, so the lime is the better buy. Your prices may vary.

 

[distribuidorUSA]

Thank you for your input Galen..any info is much appreciated.. I'm determined to accomplice this.Even though I'll start crawling before I learn how to Fly..thanks again.

 

[distribuidorUSA]

Again Dave.thank you so much.. Im thinking about doing this procedure when testing different ores.as there are many tipes on this area...and about the Lime I Wil try to process it myself.. we have a big deposit of Calcite close by.

 

[GoldpannerDave]

BTW, the volts you get from a battery would be OK, but the amps probably not. The more amps, the faster the gold deposits. With low amps, very low rate of deposition. If you are OK with that, give it a try. Ideally, you probably need about 50 amps.

 

[Clay Diggins]

The leach processes you are talking about are the last step in planning, not the first. Most ore is not susceptible to cyanide leach in a standard process. Silver content in your ore will pretty much negate the effect of the cyanide on the gold. Copper a similar situation for other reasons.

Ores are in all cases complex. There is seldom a workable off the shelf solution to extraction of gold in ore. In the 1880s more mines went broke trying to use the new "miracle" of cyanide processing than made a profit.

Cyanide is dangerous expensive stuff and any process that doesn't recover a significant percentage of the cyanide is dangerous and likely to be illegal. Then there is the redox balancing chemistry. Assuming your ore is neutral pH and will remain balanced in the process will get you killed.

Reactions are not simple or linear no matter what your chemistry books say. Different metals and salts are reduced and react at different rates. Ores are not regular or homogeneous. Small batch processing makes the results even more unpredictable. Highly poisonous cyanide and chlorine gasses as processing byproducts are the result of poor planning and a poor understanding of redox chemistry.

IF you have ore susceptible to cyanide processing you may find it profitable to go that route but to be effective and safe you will need VERY large batch processing under constant monitoring and adjustment. The preferred method for recovery in large batch leach processes are custom designed resin beads as part of a redox recovery system. Small batch processing larger than a 500ml beaker is a virtual impossibility for anyone concerned with safety and profit.

Find the ore, define the nature of the ore and THEN discover the best method to refine the valuable metals from the ore. Mercury is often safer, easier and cheaper for small free milling operations than cyanide or any other chemical leach. Keep an open mind to other methods and educate yourself before you experiment with any recovery method.

Heavy Pans

 

[distribuidorUSA]

Clay Diggins Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I realize I'm far away from my goals ..I guess I will stick with the Mercury for now.I found a nice retort design on Ebay..I will build something similar but on a much bigger scale.. I need something that will process about 10 Lbs of amalgam at a time. I already did some tests with a small amount of mercury 6 years ago and it amalgamated pretty good even though I didn't see much color on the grounded ore...stay tuned.. I will post pics and maybe Videos..

 

[distribuidorUSA]

I found this on Ebay..it's too small for My Project. but I will built one similar to it but much bigger..I'm thinking it will be taller on one side and much longer wich Wil be filled with antifreeze.this way condensation will be guaranteed.

 

[KevinInColorado]

Be careful with material choice if building your own. Mercury eats holes in aluminum and amalgamates with copper. Iron and steel are ok.

 

[GoldpannerDave]

The leach processes you are talking about are the last step in planning, not the first. Most ore is not susceptible to cyanide leach in a standard process. Silver content in your ore will pretty much negate the effect of the cyanide on the gold. Copper a similar situation for other reasons.

Ores are in all cases complex. There is seldom a workable off the shelf solution to extraction of gold in ore. In the 1880s more mines went broke trying to use the new "miracle" of cyanide processing than made a profit.

Cyanide is dangerous expensive stuff and any process that doesn't recover a significant percentage of the cyanide is dangerous and likely to be illegal. Then there is the redox balancing chemistry. Assuming your ore is neutral pH and will remain balanced in the process will get you killed.

Reactions are not simple or linear no matter what your chemistry books say. Different metals and salts are reduced and react at different rates. Ores are not regular or homogeneous. Small batch processing makes the results even more unpredictable. Highly poisonous cyanide and chlorine gasses as processing byproducts are the result of poor planning and a poor understanding of redox chemistry.

IF you have ore susceptible to cyanide processing you may find it profitable to go that route but to be effective and safe you will need VERY large batch processing under constant monitoring and adjustment. The preferred method for recovery in large batch leach processes are custom designed resin beads as part of a redox recovery system. Small batch processing larger than a 500ml beaker is a virtual impossibility for anyone concerned with safety and profit.

Find the ore, define the nature of the ore and THEN discover the best method to refine the valuable metals from the ore. Mercury is often safer, easier and cheaper for small free milling operations than cyanide or any other chemical leach. Keep an open mind to other methods and educate yourself before you experiment with any recovery method.

Heavy Pans

Quite true! As you mentioned, silver, copper, and other metals also make soluble complexes with cyanide, taking up the cyanide, potentially lots of extra cyanide. If you don't know your ore, you really aren't ready to start trying to cyanide it.

Lots of good advice there, Clay Diggins. And given the rather remote location, the recommendation to use Hg is a good one. It is a lot less chemistry, a lot less difficult to do in a "low power" situation, though it still has safety concerns, it is less complicated than the cyanide route.

 

[distribuidorUSA]

Yes.I'll be using Steel...I hope a can make a huge one to process Cinnabar ..so I can make my own Mercury.. we have plenty of that Ore in Southern Mexico.

 

[GoldpannerDave]

Yes.I'll be using Steel...I hope a can make a huge one to process Cinnabar ..so I can make my own Mercury.. we have plenty of that Ore in Southern Mexico.

Just be careful! Mercury fumes are very dangerous; much more so that the liquid. (Though in hot, even warm climates, the liquid can evaporate and become fumes if you don't store it under water).

 

[distribuidorUSA]

I know some old guys who worked the Cinnabar deposit.. half of those who worked died because of accidents and the exposure of the vapors.. they didn't sealed properly the ovens they were firing the cinnabar in...they built a small room out of Rocks and mud.on top they would put a metal sheet and seal the gaps with mud..two pipes were used.one to channel the vapors to a container and the other to blow air in the burning chamber .they used an accordion like device to blow air trough the bottom pipe..