hydraulic pin and feather setup

[Mad Machinist]

I think that this technique wouldn't necessarily be better than using explosives, if you're licensed for it. The density of holes they show in that rock face is well beyond what you'd need for a typical double diamond drill pattern on the working face. Generally speaking, it looks like the drilling time is extensively beyond what I expect for blasting operations. When it comes to loading the holes and wiring the shot, I think you'd come out way ahead on time using explosives as well. That's just for drilling.

The actual breaking of the rock is going to eat a crap load of time with the hydraulic feathering.

Then there's the expenses to consider. How much does that rig cost? If you're doing 3-5x the number of holes, then expect that much more maintenance on your equipment. If you're in a water deprived area like I am, it's all that extra water for the drill rig that has to be hauled to the site. The road will get that much more maintenance as well.

Now if you're in an area close to residences or you've got a very dicey patch of gangue to work through, this might be the only way to go.

I don't know. It's a novel technique but it might be trying to invent the wheel.

If you haven't looked into what it takes to get and maintain a blasting license along with the requirements for transporting and storing explosives, you really should. I maintained a blasting license for years and it is a pain in the ass. There are no second chances if you mess up storing explosives. A lot of the violations end up with jail time, especially if explosives are missing or the paperwork gets screwed up and it looks like some are missing.

I rather buy a 1 9/16" SDS rotary hammer and drill more holes. Less chance of jail time that way and it makes hitting small pockets of high grade that much easier.

 

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[Mad Machinist]

Forgot to add, buy a good respirator. 3M Versaflo Heavy Industry PAPR Kit TR-300-HIK)

Not cheap but having the air blow in your face helps a lot when it is brutally hot outside. I have one for my day job and love it.

 

[Mad Machinist]

I think that this technique wouldn't necessarily be better than using explosives, if you're licensed for it. The density of holes they show in that rock face is well beyond what you'd need for a typical double diamond drill pattern on the working face. Generally speaking, it looks like the drilling time is extensively beyond what I expect for blasting operations. When it comes to loading the holes and wiring the shot, I think you'd come out way ahead on time using explosives as well. That's just for drilling.

The actual breaking of the rock is going to eat a crap load of time with the hydraulic feathering.

Then there's the expenses to consider. How much does that rig cost? If you're doing 3-5x the number of holes, then expect that much more maintenance on your equipment. If you're in a water deprived area like I am, it's all that extra water for the drill rig that has to be hauled to the site. The road will get that much more maintenance as well.

Now if you're in an area close to residences or you've got a very dicey patch of gangue to work through, this might be the only way to go.

I don't know. It's a novel technique but it might be trying to invent the wheel.

Your thinking, but your missing the point here. This setup wouldn't work for a full scale operation. What it is for is to get someone started and as they build money up from what is recovered, THEN they can buy better and additional equipment. THis way you can start a small scale operation without having to take out a second and third mortgage on your house and end up losing everything you own when things don't pan out.

IF you have a larger scale deposit then it would be worth the PITA to get and maintain a blasting license along with the necessary storage facilities.

These still fall under hand tools according to the BLM and USFS. So no Notice of Intent or Plan of Operations is necessary. Reclamation bonds are not necessary either as these are hand tools. Yet one would have a better way of small scale mining without the pain of trying to use hammers and chisels.

So if you have a deposit grading 1/2 ounce per ton in granite, with granite weighing 4536 pounds per cubic foot, that is an ounce per cubic yard. Believe it or not, it wouldn't take much to break a cubic yard of granite loose. Transporting and processing that much might be another story but the fact remains that with just hammers and chisels, breaking that much rock loose by hand is going to be a frustrating experience at best.

Unfortunately, there are very, very few tools left for us to work with so we have to make them when and where we can.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

You're 100% right, I haven't researched at all the issues with a blasting licence or storage so this is kind of an academic exercise and a learning experience for me.

Have you looked at the Sierra Blaster system?

 

[Mad Machinist]

The Sierra Blaster is a very nice system. I'd love to have one, BUT as of right now they are having production issues with the cartridge charges and there store was down last I checked. Without those cartridges it is basically a rather expensive paperweight and your back to sitting around doing nothing until you can get ahold of those cartridges.

As for this being academic, well, not really. Maybe I'll pit the plans up here in a little bit. If it takes a decent machinist more than 3 hours to build the adapter, that machinist should find a new job.

 

[kcm]

Here's a nice review of the Sierra Blaster:
http://westernminingalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Sierra-Blaster-Review.pdf

 

[SaltwaterServr]

These still fall under hand tools according to the BLM and USFS. So no Notice of Intent or Plan of Operations is necessary. Reclamation bonds are not necessary either as these are hand tools. Yet one would have a better way of small scale mining without the pain of trying to use hammers and chisels.

Using modified hydraulic cylinders still falls under hand tools? Also, I was under the impression once you cut a shaft/portal you're required to file the Notice of Intent and POO. Am I wrong on that?

So if you have a deposit grading 1/2 ounce per ton in granite, with granite weighing 4536 pounds per cubic foot, that is an ounce per cubic yard. Believe it or not, it wouldn't take much to break a cubic yard of granite loose. Transporting and processing that much might be another story but the fact remains that with just hammers and chisels, breaking that much rock loose by hand is going to be a frustrating experience at best.

My short list of tools is a SDS Max hammer and the genset to run it.

Unfortunately, there are very, very few tools left for us to work with so we have to make them when and where we can.

I run a cordless Milwaukee 1 1/8 SDS Plus for sampling. Pricey, but so worth it when I can throw it in my backpack and sample anywhere I can walk to.

The Sierra Blaster is a very nice system. I'd love to have one, BUT as of right now they are having production issues with the cartridge charges and there store was down last I checked. Without those cartridges it is basically a rather expensive paperweight and your back to sitting around doing nothing until you can get ahold of those cartridges.

As for this being academic, well, not really. Maybe I'll pit the plans up here in a little bit. If it takes a decent machinist more than 3 hours to build the adapter, that machinist should find a new job.

Sorry, I was posting from my phone and didn't elucidate my thoughts properly. What I meant was this is an academic experience as well as learning because this does give additional conceptual thought to the process of developing not only a mine but the mine company concurrently.

I've seen lots of videos of the SB system cracking rock, but what I haven't seen is the SBlaster system work on a rock face. I would imagine that once you're able to crack out a centralized void on the working face, you could then keep on blasting away. What I don't know is if there is enough pop on a SBlaster to fracture and push out the first shot of rock. You might be able to drill a main compression hole so the rock has somewhere to "move" to so that it fractures rather than conducts the pressure wave through itself. Or you could line up a shot of several heads as close together as they can be put to pop that first void out.

 

[Mad Machinist]

My understanding of the mining law, through discussions, arguments, and outright fights involving attorneys, with the BLM, is that anything under 5 horsepower is considered had tools. Now when you start bringing in mechanized equipment, you need to start posting bonds and have a POO and file your NOI.

As far as tunnels go, define a tunnel. What some call a tunnel, I would call a pocket.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

My understanding of the mining law, through discussions, arguments, and outright fights involving attorneys, with the BLM, is that anything under 5 horsepower is considered had tools. Now when you start bringing in mechanized equipment, you need to start posting bonds and have a POO and file your NOI.

That's dang good information to know.

As far as tunnels go, define a tunnel. What some call a tunnel, I would call a pocket.

Yup. I've seen horizontal cuts that people I've taken out to look around would call a tunnel that go back into the hillside 12'. That's not an adit to me at all. Take that same cut, shrink it down to 4' high and 30" wide, put it in loosely consolidated breccias or caliche, and I'm calling it an adit because I've got to start lagging and timbering.

Really is up to interpretation.

 

[tamrock]

Last week or so I was in Utah with a contractor working at Rio Tino copper and he said they were renting a Brokk to enlarge a drift. Some time ago I was selling jackleg parts to the Sweet Home mine in Alma Colorado and they had maybe half a dozen of the hydraulic rock spliter made by Darda I think? They used those to delicately open up the seems they got the rhodochrosite crystals out of. I guess it could be possible to make money out of a metals mine with a rig like this, but still there are SO many factors involved when it comes to being successful in mining. In Feb. 2017 it will be the 40th anniversary of when I first stepped into a hard rock underground mine and today I don't think I could count all the one's I've dealt with that have opened and closed do to failure. Other methods such as this type of machinery could very well make it possible to be successful in a smaller operation ??. I'm going to the Vegas Mine Expo next month and my main mission is to seek out new technology that we could maybe offer support in as a dealer, because I feel it's time to expand beyond selling the same old rope, soap & dope we've been peddling like everyone else is doing to the limited operations that are running today. Then again I could just call it quits and forget about it all and enjoy life in other ways

 

[ice9]

The video shown is not your average mine. They're doing something tricky, in a sensitive area, where they simply cannot blast, and they're not up on modern tech. Drilling 200 holes and then wedging the rock out is incredibly impractical and expensive. Whoever is doing this hasn't done much research. New non-explosive charges could drive that face back quite efficiently with the standard pattern of holes, and it can be done 5 feet away from a fiber optic pipe, a propane line, or a building, with complete suppression of fly rock, no dust, no fumes, and very little vibration. You can now efficiently and cheaply move rock in a precisely controlled manner right in a subdivision. And there's no need for an explosive handling license, or a magazine to store the stuff, or a license to transport it. Small scale mining has never been cheaper and easier...

 

[Mad Machinist]

The video shown is not your average mine. They're doing something tricky, in a sensitive area, where they simply cannot blast, and they're not up on modern tech. Drilling 200 holes and then wedging the rock out is incredibly impractical and expensive. Whoever is doing this hasn't done much research. New non-explosive charges could drive that face back quite efficiently with the standard pattern of holes, and it can be done 5 feet away from a fiber optic pipe, a propane line, or a building, with complete suppression of fly rock, no dust, no fumes, and very little vibration. You can now efficiently and cheaply move rock in a precisely controlled manner right in a subdivision. And there's no need for an explosive handling license, or a magazine to store the stuff, or a license to transport it. Small scale mining has never been cheaper and easier...

I know all about dexpan and the like. They don't work real well overhead or where there is a ot of water. And I wouldn't exactly call dexpan cheap at about $2.50 a pound.