So you want to make a living hardrocking,

[Mad Machinist]

Let me tell you just how its gonna be.

Before we really get into this, I want to give a very serious and heartfelt thank you to itspaidfor for bringing this issue back to the forefront. Its all good between us as far as I am concerned and I hope you'll feel the same after this.

For those that don't know, I am a very experienced, highly educated, and an extremely intelligent miner. I hold two degrees, an Associates in Mechanical Engineering and a Bachelors in Environmental Science. I also hold a Journeyman Millwright card. I have never stopped learning as I promised my Grandfather on his deathbed and I never will stop learning. At this point, its hard to remember when I WASN'T taking classes for something.

I AM NOT being arrogant or trying to put anybody down with this, but I WILL tell you the truth no matter how brutal it is. That is the way I was raised, the way I have lived, and the way I will ALWAYS be.

Now many have seen what the thread Wildlifemining posted has devolved into. Itspaidfor claims you can make a living with a "commercial grade" impact mill, some know how, and knowing how to use mercury. I called bullspit. Now I am going to show you all why.

With an impact mill, the larger your feedstock is, the more wear that mill will show. Another thing that is very rarely posted about an impact mill is the fact that an impact mill's output is derived from CLASSIFIED material such as 3/4" minus. Granted an impact mill may take 2 1/2" feedstock, but if you try and shove 1 ton of 2 1/2" material through an impact mill rated to do 1 ton of 3/4" minus an hour, your wear rates go through the roof and you are more than likely going to break something when you can least afford it.

And speaking of breaking things, if you are mining for a living, you had damn well better have the ability to fix equipment in the field, the spare parts to fix that equipment, or be paying someone that has the parts and the ability to fix that equipment IMMEDIATELY. If you are relying on breaking rocks to make a living and you are not breaking rocks, your not making money. And if you are relying on breaking rocks to make money and you are not breaking rocks, well, then you and your family are starving.

More in a few, I need another beer.

 

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[Mad Machinist]

Now if you want to make a living at this on your own, there is NO way you can do this without doing it right. With the laws being what they are today, sooner or later you will get caught. Whether it is MSHA cruising the back roads looking for you, your neighbor reports you for suspicion of dealing drugs, or you make large deposits into your bank account without proof of a job. Any like that and your screwed. The local police force shows up with a warrant and you have large amounts cash in a safe? Well congratulations, it just got confiscated on suspicion of dealing drugs. If you don't have absolute proof of where the cash came from you'll NEVER get it back.

And speaking of getting that cash back, you'll need a damn good Attorney. Good ones are not cheap. And it it is ALWAYS a good idea to have an Attorney ANYTIME you are dealing with mining on BLM.or USFS land.

More later. Gonna go chill out with the wife for awhile.

 

[russau]

Well put , and the truth sometimes hurts!! That's some good advice to a person starting out and don't know the ropes!!! Its always a good idea to self analyze yourself and your abilitys BEFORE you attempt to do anything like this!

 

[Mad Machinist]

Now lets look at the money issues.

In this industry you WILL experience the "feast and famine" ordeal. Sometimes you'll have more money than you know what to do with and other times you'll bed so broke your headed for the bread lines. That is the way it is.

Living on a budget is CRUCIAL to being a successful hardrock miner. When times are good you put away as much money as possible to carry you through the lean times. Or even when you are recovering from the injuries that WILL happen. This means you don't have the latest and greatest new toys. You DON'T compete with the Smiths and Joneses. You may never have a new vehicle or even that McMansion that everyone seems to want.

Figure out what kind of lifestyle you want to live and then figure out what that lifestyle will cost. That gets added to the bottom line of what you HAVE to make on a daily basis. I'll use my daily wages here. So if you want to put $300 dollars a day in you pocket and it costs you $300 a day to operate, then you have to average $600 a day. To make that you would need roughly a 2/3 of an ounce a day. Either you run high grade ore or you push tonnage through. That is all there is, no more, no less.

If your ore grade is averaging 1 gram per ton and you need 16 grams of gold to "make it", you push 16 tons through. No exceptions, no excuses. So if your equipment only handles 1 ton per hour, then your working 16 hours. If equipment breaks, your working longer.

All of this adds up to taking a serious toll on the body both physically and mentally. Working like that WILL hurt you. Not to mention the fact that it takes a very serious toll on family life. Ever wonder why hardrock miners have a way higher than average divorce rate and higher than average rate of alcoholism??

I know a lot who do this part time to supplement there incomes. But there are very few of us who do this full time. Like I said before, hardrocking is a very difficult way to make a living. The rewards are great, but the risks are just as great.

Still wanna make a living as a hardrock miner?

 

[TAKODA]

Damn ...... I'm glad I don't have that much grief gold hunting .
Of course I'm small time . I just do it because I like it .
I've found it to be more of a rush finding gold than it was
to fish or hunt . The work out is better and the learning
curve is more intense / invigorating , not to mention the gold
keeps longer .

 

[Eu_citzen]

Well put, food for thought. Some people have romantic ideas, but there's a lot more to it then it seems.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Well put, food for thought. Some people have romantic ideas, but there's a lot more to it then it seems.

Wait until I get into bonding issues for mining on federal land, environmental impact studies, reclamation issues, and soon enough, MSHA breathing down the backs of small scale miners.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Wait until I get into bonding issues for mining on federal land, environmental impact studies, reclamation issues, and soon enough, MSHA breathing down the backs of small scale miners.

I've been reading one miner's environmental impact in New Mexico. He's lucky in that he's opening an existing mine and the initial surface damage is already done. The reclamation bonds and site study is a ROYAL pain in the rear. He's got only about 3 acres or so to worry about and the reclamation work is $40K. The BLM is making him bring the site back to where it was when mining first started at the site, who knows when. Then he's got to move rock and dirt, use an approved BLM planting/revegetation regimen, grade it for slope to match the hills, set up adequate drainage, fertilize the damn thing, provide erosion control, and promise not to pee on a lizard during the whole thing.

And that has zero to do with the actual sealing, capping, and securing of the shaft while he's at it.

 

[dave wiseman]

I'm surprised he didn't have to bring in an archaeologist...also aren't the original claim/mine owners responsible for any reclamation/clean up.

 

[Mad Machinist]

I've been reading one miner's environmental impact in New Mexico. He's lucky in that he's opening an existing mine and the initial surface damage is already done. The reclamation bonds and site study is a ROYAL pain in the rear. He's got only about 3 acres or so to worry about and the reclamation work is $40K. The BLM is making him bring the site back to where it was when mining first started at the site, who knows when. Then he's got to move rock and dirt, use an approved BLM planting/revegetation regimen, grade it for slope to match the hills, set up adequate drainage, fertilize the damn thing, provide erosion control, and promise not to pee on a lizard during the whole thing.

And that has zero to do with the actual sealing, capping, and securing of the shaft while he's at it.

Yea, that is pretty much the norm now.

 

[Mad Machinist]

I'm surprised he didn't have to bring in an archaeologist...also aren't the original claim/mine owners responsible for any reclamation/clean up.

More than likely he was dealing with the Jemenz Salamander. And trust me, the environmental studies have NOTHING to do with "saving the environment", they are just there to insure certain people get their pockets lined.

As far as the original claim/mine owners being responsible, no. You were/are the last claimant, therefore YOU are responsible for reclamation, cleanup, and the like. They don't care who did it originally, just who they can make pay for the cleanup. And if it they claim it has become a Superfund site, you just lost everything you own, unless you have that Attorney I was talking about earlier.

Still wanna be a hardrock miner?

 

[Eu_citzen]

Wait until I get into bonding issues for mining on federal land, environmental impact studies, reclamation issues, and soon enough, MSHA breathing down the backs of small scale miners.

Tell me about it. I worked at a gold-prospect, mapping the area. A abandoned mine was supposed to be mapped, to. (flooded mine)
We spent approx 1-2 weeks on paperwork: They wanted a detailed workplan and environmental impact studies and a bunch of other stuff.

This was even before any actual prospecting (not even mining!) commenced.

No need to say; small-scale mining is pretty much non-existent in Sweden.

 

[barrelroll]

This is my first post but I figured I'd pipe in. If you want to make a living at small scale mining wouldn't it not be the worst idea to get a job working for someone else at a mine? I've been interested in hard rock mining for a while and was fed up with my current job. I applied to and now start in 2 weeks at a underground mine. While it's not a gold mine and it's much larger scale than a mom and pop mine I figure I have the potential to learn a lot before I even think about small scale mining.

Is this not a bad way to get into small scale mining?

 

[arizau]

What you may learn most of is safety and that is a good thing.. Your acquired skills will be mostly job specific. If you have time be curious and ask questions about how and why things are done underground.

Be safe and good luck.

 

[Mad Machinist]

This is my first post but I figured I'd pipe in. If you want to make a living at small scale mining wouldn't it not be the worst idea to get a job working for someone else at a mine? I've been interested in hard rock mining for a while and was fed up with my current job. I applied to and now start in 2 weeks at a underground mine. While it's not a gold mine and it's much larger scale than a mom and pop mine I figure I have the potential to learn a lot before I even think about small scale mining.

Is this not a bad way to get into small scale mining?

Welcome to the asylum, brother or sister as the case may be.

I'll give you some advice. Your gonna get called greenhorn at best and a whole lot worse depending on how you do. The best thing to do, when you are underground, is think about what you are about to do and what may happen. You'll take some flak about being slow BUT you WILL earn the respect if your crew if you make sure no one is going to get hurt. If you run around like a chicken with your head cut off underground, your crew WILL break you.

We are some of the best people in the world. And if you listen and pay heed to the experience of those around you and what you can learn, you'll be welcomed into this world after your "red hat" comes off.

 

[smokeythecat]

Makes me think of the 49'ers in California. Most of them quit and wound up doing something else. Some died trying to find gold. BLM, OHSA, MSHA and IRS weren't even in play back then.

 

[smokeythecat]

BTW there is gold on my property here in Maryland, but since my neighbors and I saw a mountain lion here last fall, I do't really want anything in the woods. Gold is very small here.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Makes me think of the 49'ers in California. Most of them quit and wound up doing something else. Some died trying to find gold. BLM, OHSA, MSHA and IRS weren't even in play back then.

Any time you go underground, you take your own life into your hands. NOBODY makes sure you see sunlight again BUT YOU.

 

[dave wiseman]

Possible Human Remains Found in Tuolumne County Mineshaft | FOX40

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Any time you go underground, you take your own life into your hands. NOBODY makes sure you see sunlight again BUT YOU.

The most valuable thing to come out of a mine is the miner.