Deep detector: CZ-3D or Tejon?

[DiggerinVA]

Which is the deepest in good soil....which is deepest in hot ground? How do they compare? Which would you buy and why?

 

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[LuckyLarry]

It depends on how much Fe is in your soil. If the soil is very highly loaded with iron, or iron ores, or iron scrap, buy the Fisher CZ, they are notoriously best for high iron soils. I own a CZ70. If you don't mind the noise from interference, and live in a low iron area, and don't plan to use it on black sand salt beaches, get the Tejon, it is EXTREMELY deep under mild conditions. The Tejon though can be a real chatterbox, almost as annoying as a Garrett Ace, and not a good one for places with lots of nails, screws, barbed wire, other linear iron scrap, or interference like microwave, RF, or high power lines. It just plain overloads it because the Tejon is already cranked up doing some heavy breathing with its high Khz operating range and uncommonly high gain. I owned one, and it couldn't handle bad soil at all. All CZ's do well in the worst of soils, even when the soil is 25% iron. However, there are some rare cases where even a PI won't work well, or sometimes at all, and most detectors sound a lot like police sirens. I know of a beach area in Washington State where metal detectors simply don't work at all.. The CZ will run circles around the Tejon in really hot ground, and it does better plus goes fairly deep in mild ground too, but the Vaquero matches the Tejon for depth overall, and runs a lot quieter than its nervous big brother. Remember too that the Fisher F70 is an even better bet than any of the above mentioned overall, it is one of the BIG BOYS, the (seriously) deep ones like the F75 and Explorer.

 

[DiggerinVA]

So if the Vaquero is as deep as the Tejon; what is the Tejon's benefit? The Vaquero is lighter, uses 1 9volt and cheaper...And are u saying that u think the f70 is as good of a choice as the CZ?

 

[DiggerinVA]

And Larry; just for your info.....75% of the places i hunt have mild gound, but the other 25% have high mineraliztion and my ATP struggles there to get great depth on civil war relics in the 8-12 inch range. Small buttons are out of the question. But half the areas that i hunt, good ground or not, have a large amount of nails/iron....So the Tejon kinda scares me there....

 

[rainyday101]

I think your question should be CZ3D vs. F70. I have been looking heavily at these two and am kinda leaning towards the F70, but it the price was right I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used CZ3D, CZ5, or CZ70.

 

[dirtscratcher]

And Larry; just for your info.....75% of the places i hunt have mild gound, but the other 25% have high mineraliztion and my ATP struggles there to get great depth on civil war relics in the 8-12 inch range. Small buttons are out of the question. But half the areas that i hunt, good ground or not, have a large amount of nails/iron....So the Tejon kinda scares me there....

Sounds like t2se country to me!

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

dont forget the bad boy G2

 

[LuckyLarry]

Well Digger, their operating frequencies are, Tejon at 17.2 to 17.6. The Vaquero operated at a more rounded, more overall 14.3, 14.5, or 14.7.

Those of the F70, F75, etc, range operate from the 10's Khz to the 13's Khz. And they have computerized diagrams and creations too, not old school like the other aforementioned Tejon, Vaquero, and even the CZ's, Garrett 1200, 1500, and 2500 series, Nautilus, etc.

The higher (of the vhf of the low freq) detectors were (notice I used past tense) unfortunately a sad disappointment to people who thought they bought a deep coin hunter. Tejons and Vaqueros do fairly well, but they could not handle the bad soil as well as a multi-freq machines of that time period. Plus, the CZ runs at 5 and 15, and the soil was automatically sampled to cause the CZ's to use whichever freq works better in which soil. Single freqs like the 1200's Fishers, the Vaquero and Tejon did not have that capability with their older circuit designs. The newer CZ however, still does have older, yet improved but still somewhat less sophisticated circuitry than the F70, F75, and T2. The comparisons are somewhat akin to comparing a 1974 BMW to a 2014 BMW, no comparison at all. In fact, downright embarrassing, UNLESS your soil is harsh, and then the playing field begins to level out for them all.

In short, the Tejon was designed after the old Fisher 1270, but with a lighter weight. These two were designed specifically as relic hunters for the milder soils of the deep South and SE soils, plus the bulk of European soils. They were not specifically designed as all-around or coin hunters. Most people learn this unfortunately (after) they buy them. In short too, the Vaquero does run smoother but makes a better coin hunter than a relic hunter. It was designed with that in mind. So was the 1270, but they both are dinasauers now.

Very clearly, I am saying that the F70 is SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY over the CZ70, the CZ3D, the CZ5, the Tejon, and the Vaquero in average (inland) soil, but the CZ's will often prevail in the really nasty stuff like ocean salt beaches or lodestone areas, ec. And it goes without saying too that black sand salt beaches present a different situation, the multi frequency detectors like the CZ's will often have an edge over the single-freq F series. The F70 like its big brother F75, and T2, are more modern though, and have more highly sophisticated computer technology circuitry for most (inland) hunting. The Tejon, the Vaquero and the 1270 are almost antiques now though.

 

[fella]

The car analogy is more than a little misleading. I'll focus only on performance specs as thats the only thing that matters. New BMW is going to be twice as quick, almost twice as fast, break & corner almost twice as well. Is that your position on the F70 on say a CZ-3D? Twice the depth? Twice as good on the disc? Please!
A more proper analogy would be like comparing a '74 Cub Cadet mower to a '14 Cub Cadet mower. They both cut grass at adjustable depths.

 

[LuckyLarry]

Ha ha..

I didn't say "twice as deep" Fella. And I didn't imply it either, you did.

And neither did I say twice as quick either. I own two BMW's and I know better than that.

I also own an Alfa Romeo Roadster, and I wouldn't say that about it either.

Even a Bugatti Veyron isn't twice as fast as a 1974 BMW 2002, but I wasn't talking about Veyrons.

I also didn't say "twice as good on the disc" either.

I didn't say "twice" anything.

Cadet tractors cut grass with a preset depth setting, metal detectors can't preset their depth potential, mowers can.

I think you confused my post with someone else's, but that's alright, we all make a mistake now and then, so do I. Still, the F70, F75, and T2 out do the CZ3D, CZ5, the CZ6, CZ7, my CZ70, the Tejon, and the Vaquero in every way, even on battery life, they were designed to. It was all done intentionally by First Texas for improved top-of-the-line detector performance. Try getting 15-17" on a dime with a CZ3D or Tejon in mild dirt, it's impossible. There is not enough radiation power to start with, but you sometimes can with an F75, F70, or T2. And if you ever get your hands on one and make the real-life comparisons too like I did, you can see it for yourself.. I hope this clears it up a bit..

One of my BMW's looks almost (exactly) like this, same Bimini blue color too:

My Alfa looks like this, but a different color:

 

[DiggerinVA]

I tend to like simple and effective versus new and hi-tech........Most of my guns were made in the first half of the 20th century....i did break down and buy a new john deere last year but i would have bought another old one if i could've found one. I am sure that the F series Fishers and the Minelabs are great machines but they are not for me. The AT Pro is about as hi-tech of a metal detector as i want. People need to remember to state facts and not opinions, since some people really rely on what u tell them. I personally dont take anyones word for anything and am still up in the air about the Tejon and the CZ-3d. I KNOW without anyone tlling me that both of these machines are deep, no matter how long they have been made. Just like i know that my 70 year old winchesters are just as good if not better than any gun made today at any price. But videos on youtube can confuse people aswell....I have watched some videos promoting the CZ as the better machine, but seen a series of videos testing the CZ-3d, tejon, and the ctx3030 today with different results. The tejon just walked the dog on the other two in both air tests aswell as in a test garden. The CZ didnt air test over 10 inches on any of many targets and struggled very much with a dime buried at 8 inches. The Tejon was pushing 15 inches on air tests and breezed right through the test garden aswell. The Tejon did have the 10x12 DD coil on it, which is not stock, i noticed. This just seemed a little "weak" from i have heard of the CZ's The guy does say it is a 1021 and has been tuned by Tom. I am almost as confused as i was when i bought my first machine...lol.

 

[pescadore]

I have thought more than once about getting the F75 or the T2 and as a coinshooter have been warned off every time by the dealers that I talked to. They told me that both the F75 and the T2 are very noisy and both are very proned to EMI. They recommended them highly for relic hunting but not for the kind of hunting I do. I have experienced some of this with the lower end F5 and Eurotek Pro and hated that aspect of the machine. I hunt mostly in town in parks and around schools and there were several places that those two detectors were not even usable due to the noise. I would have to turn the sensitivity down so far that I lost the depth that everyone bragged about. I enjoy the stability of my CZ 5 and how accurate the meter is.

Ha ha..

I didn't say "twice as deep" anything Fella. And I didn't imply it either, you did.

And neither did I say twice as quick either. I own two BMW's and I know better than that.

I also own an Alfa Romeo Roadster, and I wouldn't say that about it either.

Even a Bugatti Veyron isn't twice as fast as a 1974 BMW 2002, but I wasn't talking about Veyrons.

I also didn't say "twice as good on the disc" either, you did.

Again, I didn't say "twice" anything.

Cadet tractors cut grass with a preset depth setting, metal detectors can't preset their depth potential, it's impossible.

I think you confused my post with someone else's, but that's ok, we all make a mistake now and then, I do too. Still, the F70, F75, and T2 out do the CZ3D, CZ5, the CZ6, CZ7, my CZ70, the Tejon, and the Vaquero in every way, even on battery life, they were designed to. It was all done intentionally by First Texas for improved top-of-the-line detector performance. Try getting 15-17" on a dime with a CZ3D or Tejon in mild dirt, it's impossible. There is not enough radiation power to start with, but you sometimes can with an F75, F70, or T2. And if you ever get your hands on one and make the real-life comparisons too like I did, you can see it for yourself.. I hope this clears it up a bit..

 

[pescadore]

I tend to like simple and effective versus new and hi-tech........Most of my guns were made in the first half of the 20th century....i did break down and buy a new john deere last year but i would have bought another old one if i could've found one. I am sure that the F series Fishers and the Minelabs are great machines but they are not for me. The AT Pro is about as hi-tech of a metal detector as i want. People need to remember to state facts and not opinions, since some people really rely on what u tell them. I personally dont take anyones word for anything and am still up in the air about the Tejon and the CZ-3d. I KNOW without anyone tlling me that both of these machines are deep, no matter how long they have been made. Just like i know that my 70 year old winchesters are just as good if not better than any gun made today at any price. But videos on youtube can confuse people aswell....I have watched some videos promoting the CZ as the better machine, but seen a series of videos testing the CZ-3d, tejon, and the ctx3030 today with different results. The tejon just walked the dog on the other two in both air tests aswell as in a test garden. The CZ didnt air test over 10 inches on any of many targets and struggled very much with a dime buried at 8 inches. The Tejon was pushing 15 inches on air tests and breezed right through the test garden aswell. The Tejon did have the 10x12 DD coil on it, which is not stock, i noticed. This just seemed a little "weak" from i have heard of the CZ's The guy does say it is a 1021 and has been tuned by Tom. I am almost as confused as i was when i bought my first machine...lol.

I can assure you that my CZ 5 has no problem at all with a dime at 8 inches. I tested mine on a 9 inch buried silver dime with the stock 8 inch coil and could raise the coil 1 1/2 to 2 inches over the target and get a two way repeatable signal with a correct ID. I don't know where this guy was testing with those results but it in no way reflects my findings in my dirt. I can say for sure though that not all CZ's are created equal. Mine is a good one !!!

 

[LuckyLarry]

Some info, lots of opinions too:

Fisher F75: www.metaldetectorreviews.net/detectors/175-1-fisherf75.html

Fisher CZ3D: www.metaldetectorreviews.net/detectors/44-1-fishercz3d.html

 

[dirtscratcher]

I can assure you that my CZ 5 has no problem at all with a dime at 8 inches. I tested mine on a 9 inch buried silver dime with the stock 8 inch coil and could raise the coil 1 1/2 to 2 inches over the target and get a two way repeatable signal with a correct ID. I don't know where this guy was testing with those results but it in no way reflects my findings in my dirt. I can say for sure though that not all CZ's are created equal. Mine is a good one !!!

When you say your dirt thats just it, detectors don't work the same every where the only testing I put in weight in is compare signals with different dtectors and then only if I'm standing there. AS far as videos go I've seen vids of bigfoot and don't believe those either. I've been using a t2 all this year and have'nt had the problems mentioned in fact its a pretty awesome detector and holds its own with any I've hunted with.

 

[DiggerinVA]

All that i was lookin for when i started this post was some ideas on detectors that would be a good back-up for my ATPro.....Meaning that i will use them to rehunt the places that i have "hunted out" with the ATP. So they should be significantly deeper and handle bad ground better than my ATP....

 

[LuckyLarry]

Digger, your first post was about the CZ3D vs the Tejon, right?

When detectorists use the term "backup detector" though, they almost always refer to one with less power and less depth, not more, because most people use the best they've got for their normal use. This is why we are talking about more powerful detectors on your post, as you aluded to. So in the real sense, it appears that you want one that outdoes the ATP, and that would under most conditions become your (primary), not your secondary detector, and not a backup. It should be an easy task to find a deeper one than the ATP - with those super-deep beasts coming out of Whites, First Texas, and Minelab now.

 

[G.A.P.metal]

Digger
the dirt in Va.has a lot of minerals in it....they do a Culpepper Va. Hunt (I think it`s there) because of the badly mineralized soil...do you live close to there....if so the CZ line should get you a little more depth.
Larry`s soil in Oregon is the same way and the CZs work good up there ....my soil is great so the CZs worked very deep here been using them since 94 ...as deep a vlf, as any i have ever used.
Gary

 

[LuckyLarry]

I should have said that I have owned the Tejon, traded it for a Ruger 338 Mag rifle, and I almost felt a bit guilty for it. I still own my CZ 70 though, it is my primary salt beach VLF machine, and it beat my Minelab Sovereign there too, and a Whites MXT even easier.

As most of us old guys already know, "test beds" mean very little in the real world, because the soil matrix or magnetic "strata" flux lines are lost, disturbed, gone, kaput.
Also, air tests only measure the actual depths in air, not in the ground, and it's often a HUGE difference.

 

[Newfiehunter]

Lucky Larry

You say the F75 can pick up a dime at 15-17 inches? That is hard to believe! Yes, the CZs are older, heavier, and the batteries may not last so long, but they can hold their own against the F series. This video among others disproves that. It could barely pic up the dime at 10 inches.