The Cave of Ccatta- Hueqque

Crow

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Hello Don Jose and others grab a coffee as I have yarn for you.:coffee2:

The South African drilling contractor Derry who we worked for was piece of work and deserves a much more detail story of that mans life as it intriguing as well inspirational in some respects in exception of his personality of the man. For he was one of Britain's tragedies after WW2 a lost legion of unwanted orphans that was sent out to Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Rhodesia. They are now called today the lost children of British empire orphan dumped onto their past colonies. Some ended up in homes adopted by loving parents overs ended up living with different orphanages run by Priests that abused them. Leaving a whom a generation of scars and loveless people. Derry was one such person. He grew up after years of physical abuse by the church to become mining contractor then drilling contractor in Rhodesia running his own multinational company. He was a tough as nails and skinny as a rake full of muscle not an ounce of fat of goodness. His soul was dark and hard. A man with no interest in life other than work. It was perhaps for him his only escape. He hated Africans with a passion, we guessed it had some thing to with scar down the left hand side of face where at one time some one had a go at him with a machete.

Derry;s strong dedication to work he built up a small empire of Drilling rigs in South Africa, Zimbabwe, Chad, Cameroon. Peru ,chile Bolivia, Australia and New Guinea. He had relocated himself to base himself out of Australia. Some say it was because too many people tried to kill him in South Africa. Personal people skills was almost non existent. How major mining companies dealt with him is beyond me. However even big corporations are not squeaky clean and Derry was an ideal consort for some of their difficult operations. Woe betide falling foul of him I saw him fire men leave them stuck in foreign country with no money. He was a hard hard man to work for and yet in rare moments he would very generous, but his old self was never far away. Trust was neither expected or given either way.

How Ironic was it that his wife was Ethiopian beauty with a personality to match who had lived for a time in Denmark and had a Danish accent. How he kept her was beyond me. He was indifferent with me, Loved Hardluck he could do no wrong. Kanacki he hated for some reason as kanacki never reacted to him. Some say in Australia one of Derry's drillers got on a little too friendly with his wife. The man was found murdered tied to the ground and fence star picket hammered up his back side. There was accusations but nothing ever proven.

That was in some respects our boss who hired us. For us as the company we worked for New guinea came to an end. For them they got caught up in a big mine project that collapsed and they were not paid for all the contact work they had done. This does in the mining game as mining can be a dirty business my friend. Derry took some of the workers. I was first followed by hardluck and Kanacki. how we got to South America in which we met host of interesting people. Such as the tobacco chewing Texan Denis Geologist aka Fog Horn Leghorn whose favorite saying to newbies on the job "Aint in Kansas anymore Toto!" He gave as good as he got! In the spirt of fun and forget the Irish can talk this guy could talk like a runaway freight train.

It was out ticket for us to see South America in a way few people will never see. What we wasn't told the previous few drillers had got their heads cut off by Light of Shining Path Guerrilla group that was active at the time.
However perhaps it was the experience we had gained in New guinea we repeated in South America and by enlarge we got on rather well with the locals. Kanacki had this obsession to bring small plastic toys to village where we went it brought smile to the Kids and perhaps eased the concerns of the elders. With local crews we mixed ourselves dining and living with them as equals. There was no them or us. We shared what we had with them and in some respects the local Peruvian crews who were paid almost nothing appreciated it. And in some cases we assisted some of their family's with medical treatment.

That and respect for the locals went a long way. It was in the course of lunch break one day working about about 100 mile south of Cuzco that the conversation came on my crew about treasure legends and Juan a full blooded Inca, a small wiry fellow with always smiling and a little more intellect than some of his fellow workmates. Told me he was from Tinta. The following story he gave was dating back from the time when Atahulpha was murdered by Pizzaro. The Incas used to mine gold near Tinta and large load of gold was hidden in cave in the Mountains. Was the story True or just another Yarn to pass the time?


Year later I came across the following newspaper story in the Daily Alta California dated 23 June 1885

Daily Alta California, Volume 38, Number 12854, 23 June 1885 INCA TREASURE CAVE.jpg


When Atahualpa . was made ; prisoner at Cajamarca he offered as a ransom, not merely to cover; the floor, but to fill the room- in which I he stood with gold as high as he could reach. The offer was accepted , by the bold but unscrupulous Pizarro. And according to an Indian ' tradition a line was drawn on the wall, all round the room, as high as Atahualpa could reach ; with his right hand, with a red earth called by the Indians taco.

As soon as the agreement '. was : concluded " between Fizarro and Atahualpa the unhappy ; monarch sent chasquis (foot couriers) to all parts ; of his empire, calling upon his subjects to - bring in the promised ransom. A deputation consisting of three Spaniards Pedro Moyner, Francisco Martinez de Zarate and Martin Bueno— marched to - Cuzco ' where, on the recommendation of Atahualpa, they were received with honors and were hospitably : entertained.

The simple-minded ' Indians , had occasion, very soon, to repent of the attentions they "had paid to the Spaniards, for the latter began to 'commit all kinds of excesses. A complaint of the conduct of the members of the deputation having been sent to Pizarro, that chieftain sent his brother, Hernando Pizarro, in January, 1533, with twenty cavalry, to Cuzco, and he returned shortly afterwards to Cajamarca bringing with him twentyseven loads of gold and two thousand marks of silver. The extraordinary activity displayed by the different caciques of the Empire to give effect to the order of their sovereign, is easily ' explained by the intense love the Indians ' felt for their monarch, whose life was now at the mercy of the avaricious Spaniards.

The roads were thronged in all directions with caravans of Indians bearing treasure. Twenty Indians were sent by the cacique Cchnmp-Chupi from the heights of Chumbibilcas, where there exist not only veins of gold, but also gold washings, with a large quantity of gold which they were to deliver' in Cajamarca on account of Atahualpa 's ransom. The faithful Indians pressed on at the top of their speed, their thoughts completely absorbed in the fate of their beloved monarch, when at the Gombapata junction on the road which passes through Tinta to Cuzco, they fell in with an Indian clothed in a scarlet mantle and wearing black tassels on his brow, who amidst tears and lamentations told them the sad story of Pizarro's treachery, and of the murder of their unhappy sovereign.

The poor Indians, realizing that they had lost father, their country and their liberty, burst into tears, and without uttering a word they raised their hands towards heaven. At length one of the Indians in a burst of anger threw down his heavy load, and exclaimed ccata hueqque ! This exclamation is full of meaning. It signifies tears embittered by the thought that the misfortune which causes them cannot be remedied, and at the same time it" is a fierce malediction hurled against the authors of the misfortune. . That word was the signal for the compact among the Indians of war to the death against the murderers of their monarch. It was the signal for the concealment of the wealth of the Empire, and it was repeated while a thousand hiding-places were being dug. The twenty Indians from the heights of Chumbibilcas dug a hole in a cave in the hard rock at Combapata, but where and in what direction is not known, and in it they buried the treasure sent by the caciqne Cchumpi-Chupi.

The sombre cave of Ccatta-Hueqqae still exists, at the distance of half a mile from the historic village of Tinta.It appears to be formed of petrifications, and in every direction the rock appears to be studded with drops of water on the point of falling. Is the hard rock weeping for the unhappy fate of Atahnalpa, or are the drops of the ccatta hueqque — the embittered tears of a disinherited race ?


Was there any truth to this story and is the cave still assessable?


The following picture of Tinta

TINTA VIEW s.jpg

Today Tinta is a rather sleepy rural town.

Tinta_2 CHURCH.jpg

And so my friends the countryside around cuzco still echos the story of legends.

Perhaps that is why I found Peru so facinating.

Crow
 

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Hello Crow

I recall a similar story about a part of Atahualpa's ransom being secreted in present-day Ecuador by some of his captains after his murder at the hand of the conquistadors. That cache was discovered by descendants of the very same Incas who had hid the treasure and were 'looking over it' up until sometime in the 18th century. The story is detailed partially in Hamish McInnes' book: Beyond The Ranges, when he went on a search for the Llanganatis treasure in the mid-1980s. The fella that uncovered the ransom treasure, took it to Quito and bought himself a fancy title and ingratiated himself in polite society.

I have no doubt in saying that many such portions of the infamous ransom where buried/secreted/sunk, in order to keep them away from the rapacious Spanish. I would also hazard a guess most have been discovered and quietly converted into wealth for the finder(s), but due to the history, cultures, environment and sheer geography of the west coast of South America, substantial hoards must still exist. There is another book by a chap - Romain Wilhelmsen (The book is "The Legend Hunter" )- still living in the States - who showed evidence in picture form and testimony, of a great hoard which an American crew discovered in the 1950s and smuggled out of Peru in a plane shortly thereafter. The group said they had discovered evidence from Spanish archives that led them to the site and that it was also a part of Atahualpa's ransom that never reached Cajamarca. From the pictures shown, I would hazard a guess that it wasn't Inca artefacts but Chimu. More than likely they simply dug into a rich burial mound/pyramid and got lucky. But there is no denying the beauty of the pieces shown.

Some day soon, I am sure you will tell us of another great story of treasure and then end it with "And that is exactly how we found it and came away with it...":thumbsup:

But whatever happens, please continue with sharing your amazing knowledge and experiences with the rest of us who will never have such privileges.

Regards

IPUK
 

doc-d

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South America has much in the way of gold, both in history and still in the ground today……..
Living here, I am aware of some legends, the historical gold found in museums and churches today, and many largely unexplored rural locations.
More so than the USSA, people buried their wealth and as happens, die or are killed and no record remains……
The seas are unforgiving also and more than a few ships with treasures have gone to bottom, remaining to be recovered……
There is much here, waiting to be found.
Viva Christo Rey!
 

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doc-d

Your slightly cryptic message would suggest that you are aware of the things that you describe and might have details on one or two.........

Are you aware of the story of the 'Lima Treasure' ?
I have been researching that story for some years and instead of Cocos Island and the rest, I believe that there is other, more viable, destinations.
 

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Crow

Crow

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In the book North American review publish in 1818

Tells the story of the native Incas in Tinta hatred for the local corregidor Don Antonio Areggia who dealt then harshly with taxes and finial bondage as virtual slaves with over enthusiastic zeal. Tupac Amaru 2nd had led a local revolt where the Corregidor was tried and hung in plaza of Tinta and Don Antionio Areggia personal fortune was confiscated as well as local government treasury and dispersed by the natives or so it was claimed?. This was in 1780 the start of the Indian revolt and it steam rolled from there to other Corregidors that were targeted thus collecting huge sums of money. Most of this money must of hidden somewhere near Tinta. By 1781 the Incas came close to winning back their freedom however by mid 1781 the revolt lost momentum and the Spaniards regrouped and took vengeance on the capture leaders

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Hi Crow

It is known that some great hoards were kept secret and watched over by Incas and their descendents until they were needed to purchase supplies and weapons. When the revolt finally failed they were left exactly where they had been buried/hidden until they would be needed again. I reckon in some cases, the guardians simply died, moved, forgot exact locations etc., and these sort of reasons were why the above group got lucky.

IPUK
 

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Crow

Crow

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Hello IPIU

A most likely scenario. However it makes one wonder how many other treasure caches from that Inca revolt are still out there?

Crow
 

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Hi Crow

A point to note would be that as the conquistadors held Atahualpa at Cajamarca and sent some of their men to Cuzco to speed-up the process and also to Pachacamac to strip the temple there on the advice of the Inca himself, they left eyewitness accounts about how there was shrines on the Inca highways and holy spots where gold and silver offerings were simply left as tribute. After close to a year at Cajamarca, when the Spanish finally left to fully conquer Cuzco and the magnificent empire of Tawantinsuyu. What they found to their dismay, was that much had disappeared and simply taken out of sight and reach as the Incas sadly realised why the alien invaders had really conquered their empire. When that fine General of the Incan northern forces of Atahualpa left Cuzco (the wonderfully named QuizQuiz) after learning of the demise of his Emperor, there was more or less a quick breakdown of order and governance due to the high level of control that normally prevailed in their society. The only way to strike back was to carry out a war of attrition and deprive the greedy conquistadors of what they most lusted after. Gold. Hide it. Sink it. Bury it. Wait for the next cycle when the Incas would rightly come back to claim what was theirs. The sun disc (Punchao) from the temple in Cuzco was originally hidden, but was discovered in the Vilcabamba site of the rebel Incas sometime in the 1570s.

I can recall reading a very old book online (1840s I believe), about a German or Swiss gentleman explorer who discovered a great Inca treasure on the side of some mountain which was venerated by the Incas and had some sort of holy site associated with it. During the retreat, Incan soldiers had simply caused a landslide to cover the site in order to stop the Spanish getting their hands on its treasures. This European chap had found out about this place and hired 'outside' labourers to help him excavate the site as locals would not go anywhere near it. He and his cargo sailed for the auction houses of Europe soon after.

Also, the Incas themselves had no compunction in raiding the sites of tribes they conquered - look what they did to the Chimus - for precious metals and objects. They did not do so to their own sites, so old Inca temples, towns etc., could have all manner of riches awaiting the lucky explorer.....

IPUK
 

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Crow

Crow

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There is a huge Irony today

As strange enough most of the gold artifacts found today are not of Inca origin. Most are from the coastal cultures , Wanka, chimu, Moche, nazca people among others. It seems most of the Inca gold artifacts was melted down and their cultural significance lost to history.

How ironic we have today Governments listening Spain whine about treasure hunters raping their cultural assets in shipwrecks from the Newworld. When most of the cargo was from plundered from the Incas and other cultures or the from exploitation of the local population.

Not much different from the Nazis wanting thier plundered treasure from Europe back is there?

Crow
 

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I really do not know on what basis the Spanish government can keep a straight face when making such claims about 'their heritage' and 'culture', when they practised slavery and bondage to such a degrading and inhumane level. I suppose the time in question has to be acknowledged to some degree, but is no excuse and no real regret has been shown or practised.

You are right Crow, the coastal cultures bore the brunt of being annihilated for their beautiful precious objects and folk not knowing the difference between them and Incan artefacts. Most visitors even today describe the desolate deserts and mountains of Peru where the spoils of centuries has been dug and stolen by many. Yet a lot more remains, and items are still 'found', smuggled, sold, melted down for their gold/silver value and the looting continues.

One thing puzzles me though, if Atahualpa wanted to get a ransom together as quickly as possible in the mistaken belief that the conquistadors would then release him, why did he send orders to Cuzco and not to Quito where he was living and had palaces of his own and his father's to rival the ancient homeland of the South?
When Quito was torched on the orders of Ruminahui before the final battles with the Spanish in the north, was there any treasure there?
Did the de facto ruler order its removal?

The above has always puzzled me somewhat and I have never fully understood what might have taken place.???


IPUK
 

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Crow

Crow

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Hello IPUK

To be fair they was not the only European country to exploit the new world. However it was the norm of those times. life was pretty cheap for the common person in Europe.

I suspect even though Atahualpa has won against his brother his main support was in north. Cuzco was his fallen brothers part of the Empire and when Atahualpa was captured he was not bargining for his freedom but his life. Pizzaro the pig Herder to be fair had outwitted him. 169 men against 80000 Inca. Atahualpa had grossly under estimated the Spaniard fighting capacity to point of being over confident perhaps still abuzz from his victory over his brother. In truth Altahualpa could of slaughter the Spaniard to the man if he had sat back and just attacked.


By shear numbers once the Spanish had broken line they would of been cut to pieces.

The offer of gold from Cuzco was a desperate offer to stall for time perhaps for some for a counter attack and perhaps escape to the North to regroup?

Crow
 

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Hello again

I should Ad the Spaniards where roughly outnumbered 473 to one.

On a tactical side, Pizarro's tactic was brilliant. Cut the head off the snake and the head was Atahualpa

Crow
 

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Yes, fair point Crow, many countries in Europe were at it, not only them, the native empires were not impervious to annihilating one another as well.

Pizarro had his strategy formed after talking to Cortez back in Spain when he went to get a royal decree for the lands he was about to counter, and the complete authoritarian level of governance badly let the Incas down plus their mode of warfare which was more akin to the Stone Age. When the conquistadors sent De Soto to 'invite' the Inca emperor to meet in Cajamarca, he showed his mettle and royal upbringing by not flinching even when the horse was snorting close to his face on the baiting of the Spanish horseman who wanted to awe the present nobles and warriors. After this episode, the Inca had a whole regiment slaughtered that had shown fear in front of the Spanish delegation. The Inca was incredulous that such a ragtag bunch could challenge him in his own domain. In time, the retreating Incas did score some decent victories against the Spanish, but of course it was too little and too late.

Going onto the Cuzco thing, I accept what you are saying, but why no mention of going to Quito??
There, his orders would have been obeyed implicitly and he could have still bought time with this request. I think what I'm trying to say, is that was or wasn't their a considerable treasure in the northern capital of Quito which Huayna Capac the Great and Atahualpa himself, so loved..........


IPUK
 

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Crow

Crow

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Personally I am not sold much on the Llanganatis story. For some that would seem like blasphemy

As the old documents I have read and Journal do not say clearly that in particular any treasure was being sent from the north. I have had not found any publication prior the early 19th century that make any reference to treasure being brought down from the North.To me it seems to be a mid 19th century invention when claims about the Llanganatis started. Not to say there is a early reference however I have never seen it.

As for treasure in the northern Inca realm of course I have no doubt Inca caches are hidden just like in the South but not in mythical size Llanganatis has become.

Crow
 

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I have not much time for the Llanganatis story as well, Crow. Seems too brilliant and very unrealistic and fantastical.

In the course of looking through things, I have come across various references of caches being found here and there in present-day Ecuador. But nothing on the 'humongous' scale of myth and fable. Might be worth bearing in mind that the Incas had barely been in those parts for more than a couple of decades and had serious troubles with some of the local tribes.

IPUK
 

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Crow

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Hello IPUK

I have some where a newspaper story about a find in Ecuador dating from about the 1930's? If my memory fails me its my whiskey sodden brain so please forgive if I am wrong. It tells the story a cave found in Ecuador was found with skeletons and a gold Idol and gems found by a road crew cutting away along the side of hill. I cannot remember much as its late I have been on Dog watch its nearly 3.30am and the eyes are hanging out of my head. And sweet Lilanai has come to relieve me er.... not that... just her turn to keep watch.:laughing7: Even at anchor we always have some one on watch if not a full shift crew.

Until next time..

Cheers

Crow
 

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No worries Crow - apologies for keeping you away from your other...erm...activities?:occasion14:

Get your head down for some kip mate.

And we'll resume soon. Thank you.

Take care

IPUK
 

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Crow, Britlander yer on my list if you stop here. I expect a continuation later or else. I apologize in that I have nothing to contribute, just quietly absorbing your data.


Don Jose de La Mancha

Hello Don Amigo ya a hard task master my friend. Can't a guy get some R and R with a massage by a beautiful Vahine and a drink of Pina Coloda on the deck of the Drumbeat. More stories more stories .... I cannot see too well the lap top during the day in the brightness. And besides I rather something else on my may lap top.:laughing7: it is very distracting in with the gentle cool breeze drifting off the warm sparking water with the sweet smell of vanilla tainting the sea air. It cannot get much better than this. er... after seeing Lilanai stretched out sunbathing on deck er.. oh yes it could.

The view is quite stunning and seductive ...Especially when the Drumbeat has this very gentle rocking motion.

Here is a picture of the Bay where in.

46161510.jpg

And yet Don Jose you cannot get enough of this punishment this old pirate going through. Perhaps its an incentive for you to finish your quest and write that dammed book, others have been hounding ya about? I haven't had the liberty of living to a 160. so crack to it or I will get Kanacki and the girls to keel haul ya.

As you can see IPUK I would need a powerful persuasion to haul my as back to south America.

Gee I wonder why my girl friend is not talking to me back in Australia at present. Anyway off for a game of tennis with the girls then off for a meal in a restaurant with Kanacki and Family. I keep telling people I am working they don't believe me.

Anyway my friend I need to go hassle that no good that dead beat of captain of mine who shanghaied me. We are off to Bora Bora in a few days.

The real treasure is not gold or jewels even if they I admit help you to where you want go, but it is experiencing these places and the people you meet that are the real treasure.

Crow
 

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