Lost City of Paititi....................The greatest treasure hunt of our lifetime.

Phil

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In 2001, Mario Polia, an Italian archaeologist, found a letter in the archives of the Vatican. It was a manuscript of the mid-sixteenth century of the Spanish Jesuit Andrés López. This letter recounts a 10-day trip that the Incas made between Cuzco and Paititi, a kingdom or a city where there was more gold than in Cuzco.

Along with this manuscript was the papal authorization to evangelize Paititi by the Jesuits, although they never gave more clues of the exact location, to avoid “gold fever”.

This famous fever had led to a rampant persecution of the Spanish conquistadors of any vestige of gold. Francisco Pizarro, a former pig keeper, had arrived in Cajamarca (Peru) in 1532 and began the sacking of the Inca empire. The abundant gold was used only for decorative elements and seemed inexhaustible. In fact, Pizarro executed Atahualpa (the last Inca, name held by the sovereign) even having received the ransom for it, which consisted of a room of 6 by 4 meters full of gold and two silver.

Before the requirements of the conquerors on the origin of so much gold, the Incas always responded that they were “beyond” any city, where the ambitious warriors were presented. I do not know if the affirmation is true or to get rid of them. The case is that the legend of El Dorado is born, a hypothetical city full of gold, just as they had been in Cuzco, for example, the temple of the korikancha, with gold-plated stone walls with niches where the solid ones were located and heavy statues of precious metal.

Throughout the centuries, many have been the archaeologists, explorers and seekers of fortune who have died in their attempt to find El Dorado. The survivors never found their whereabouts. Today it is no longer the thirst for gold that guides the new discoverers, but again they want to find the location of the mythical city, driven by that recent discovery of the letter of the sixteenth century.

It is known that at the bottom of Lake Titikaka are treasures thrown by the Incas before their fall into Spanish hands, but the difficulty of diving probably leaves them forever in the background. However, this is not the historical place to locate the golden city. El Dorado may not have existed, but what was clear was that there was Paititi, northeast of Cuzco, there was more gold there than in the capital of the Inca empire itself.

Paititi is considered today the great archeological enigma of South America. There is an area at the distance described by the famous letter (10 days of walking), in the jungles of the Madre de Dios River, like the Pantiacolla plateau, where what Paititi has been discovered can be discovered. In 1996, Greg Deyermenjian, discovered the Paratoari pyramids in that jungle, despite arriving on foot and flying them in a small plane. He has not been able to determine whether they are natural or artificial constructions because of the extensive foliage that covers them.

Deyermenjian is leaving his life exploring Peru, obsessed with Paititi, in the same way that Hiram Bingham did with Vilcabamba but discovering Machu Picchu. However, it was in 2002 when an international team, guided by the letter discovered in the Vatican a year earlier, thirty researchers led by Jacek Palkiewicz, who after two years of expedition announced the discovery of the Inca city of Paititi. It is located in an area adjacent to the Manu National Park, between the departments of Cuzco and Madre de Dios, just 10 days from the road to Cuzco.

In the 17th century the legend about Paititi placed it under a lagoon, on a plateau of 4 square kilometers and covered entirely with vegetation. Up to this point, this international team arrived, discovering with its georradores an important network of caverns and tunnels under the lagoon. But no treasure has been found.

Five centuries ago gold pushed to risk the lives of the conquerors. Today explorers and adventurers continue to risk not for the gold but for the thrill and glory of the discovery; such was the case of Lars Hafksjold, a Norwegian anthropologist who disappeared in 1997 in the waters of the Madidi River. Some mysteries are resolved but under the Amazon jungle there will still be something hidden, waiting for some adventurers to bring it to light.

By chance, is anybody here researching this?
 

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Hola amigo


Interesting story amigo. In 1997 Lars Hafksjold was so obsessed he pushed into a native Toromonas territory that was hostile to outsider even other native tribes. One of reasons why they fear white men as miner penetrating the amazon steal the native women and children to use as slaves. But he against advice of others pushed on. Without negotiating first with the use of neighboring tribes that had limited contact with the Toromonas tribe that may of negotiated contact. Yet in his arrogance he pushed on and most likely cost him his life.

larsen7.jpg

Kanacki
 

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Crow

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Gidday Phil

The english translation of the document has some fundamental errors. For example "Madre de Dios" was taken for the river known by that name to day.

Madre de Dios means "Mother of God" in Spanish But that was the Spanish "Name Given to describe" to the deity that city Patti represented.

Pachamama is a goddess revered by the indigenous peoples of the Andes. She is also known as the earth/time mother. In Inca mythology, Pachamama is a fertility goddess who presides over planting and harvesting, embodies the mountains, and causes earthquakes.

Pachamama is a modern name version.

Inti, also called Apu-punchau, in Inca religion, the sun god; he was believed to be the ancestor of the Incas. Inti was at the head of the state cult, and his worship was imposed throughout the Inca empire. He was usually represented in human form, his face portrayed as a gold disk from which rays and flames extended.

The word Paititi is a Spanish amalgamation of Pachamama Earth mother the and the sun god, Inti,

To confuse it even more Paititi is modern spelling version of that early Spanish Name Payatti. Since the letter was written by a Jesuit priest they used the word "Patti", "Pattie", or "Patty" is a feminine given name, and/or a surname. As a given name, it can be a short form or diminutive of Patricia, meaning 'noble woman'(as derived from Latin).

The only native languages in the Andes that are common are Quechua, Aymara, Jaqaru, and Kawki

For example the Pachamama is blending of two words. Pacha ( meaning earth in Quechua )
(Mama meaning mum in Spanish )

Crow
 

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Megantoni

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Paratoari

There are indeed some of us out there, in the field, fleshing out the story behind the Legend of Paititi. There are still many undiscovered "ruinas" lying under a layer of moss and five hundred years slow accumulation of vegetation, waiting to be located and documented.

One correction: no one, including the 2002 project of Jacek Palkiewicz, has discovered or identified Paititi, as yet.

Also, based upon our 1996 first hand examination of the formations known as "The Pyramids of Paratoari," we are confident that the pyramid-shaped forms are of natural origin, composed of easily malleable (by wind, rain, and geological movement) sandstone.

Thanks.

Greg Deyermenjian
 

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KANACKI

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Hola amigo Greg

Have you come across Thierry Jamin in your travels?

Kanacki
 

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Phil

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Gidday Phil

The english translation of the document has some fundamental errors. For example "Madre de Dios" was taken for the river known by that name to day.

Madre de Dios means "Mother of God" in Spanish But that was the Spanish "Name Given to describe" to the deity that city Patti represented.

Pachamama is a goddess revered by the indigenous peoples of the Andes. She is also known as the earth/time mother. In Inca mythology, Pachamama is a fertility goddess who presides over planting and harvesting, embodies the mountains, and causes earthquakes.

Pachamama is a modern name version.

Inti, also called Apu-punchau, in Inca religion, the sun god; he was believed to be the ancestor of the Incas. Inti was at the head of the state cult, and his worship was imposed throughout the Inca empire. He was usually represented in human form, his face portrayed as a gold disk from which rays and flames extended.

The word Paititi is a Spanish amalgamation of Pachamama Earth mother the and the sun god, Inti,

To confuse it even more Paititi is modern spelling version of that early Spanish Name Payatti. Since the letter was written by a Jesuit priest they used the word "Patti", "Pattie", or "Patty" is a feminine given name, and/or a surname. As a given name, it can be a short form or diminutive of Patricia, meaning 'noble woman'(as derived from Latin).

The only native languages in the Andes that are common are Quechua, Aymara, Jaqaru, and Kawki

For example the Pachamama is blending of two words. Pacha ( meaning earth in Quechua )
(Mama meaning mum in Spanish )

Crow



It's a fake?
 

Crow

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Gidday amgios

This report, dating from 1567-1625, was discovered in the archives of the Society of Jesus (the Jesuit order) by an Italian historian and archaeologist ,Mario Polia in 2001.

The author of the report and the addressee are unknown, but there is no doubt to historians about existence of the Father Andrea Lopez, which will be told. Moreover, the rank of the involved historical figures allows us to say that it is not just about rumours, but verified information. However, the papal order on evangelisation of Paititi residents, which could confirm the stated event, has not yet been found.....


When Father Andrea Lopez arrived in this city of Rome to our Father General [of the society of Jesus] as a procurator from those lands [i.e. as a representative of the Jesuits order from Peru], he made a report about a miracle, that the Lord in his mercy showed in those lands. The aforesaid Father Andrea Lopez, as a rector of the College of the Society of Jesus in Cusco in those Indies of Peru, says that there were few Indians (three or four) in that city, who—despite being Christians baptized by his own hand—got angry by maltreatment of several soldiers of the presidio [a small fortress with a garrison inside]; they decided to depart from that place to go to another Kingdom in ten days from this Peru, which is called Paÿtiti and has the size of thousand large Spanish leagues [6694 km] which makes three thousand Italian miles [5553 km], and they [Paÿtiti residents] are as white as Germans, very warlike and civilized in their life and governing. The king is very powerful and keeps the court in the manner of the Great Turk [Turkish sultan] with great majesty; his Kingdom is very richly decorated with gold, silver and many pearls in the way that they use it for pots and pans as we use iron here.


After the mentioned Indians had escaped from Cuzco, they arrived in this Kingdom of Paÿtiti, where on the frontier guards searched their bags and belongings, which they were carrying; as these Indians in fact were Christians, they carried a wooden crucifix, which Father Andrea Lopez had given them before their departure; and the border guards asked them, what was that “crucifixion”, because the guards were confused to see a figure of a wooden man; the Indians answered them that it was the figure of the God of the Christians. Then the guards began to joke and sneer with contempt, but let them freely pass into the Kingdom; they [Indians] arrived to the city, where kept his court the king of the Kingdom of Paÿtiti, who had been alerted about the arrival of these Indians carrying the figure of the God, adored by Christians; out of curiosity he called them in his and all his court presence, where all main noblemen gathered, curious to see the figure of the Christian God, and to hear the speech of the Indians, what they would say to the king.


Now the king grabbed this crucifixion and began to laugh at it and with his courtiers ridiculed the figure, joking over the crucifixion; he put it back into the hand of the Indian, saying him to go away with his Christian God; pronouncing these words, when the Indian had already received the crucifixion back, he spat with great contempt in the face of the crucified Christ; and then such a miracle happened, that the crucified Christ lifted up his head, which had been bowed—as usually wooden crucifixions are carved—and lifting his head he wrathfully glared, turning his gaze and head to the right and left; and the gaze was so creepy and scary that the king and all the surrounding suite fell to the ground for three hours—every one, except the Indian that stood untouched and was all astounded, holding the crucifix in his hand.


In the end the first who came around was the king, and then gradually all the others, one by one, amazed and dumbfounded; the king raised his voice and said, like St. Paul the Great [referring to the Apostle Paul, with whom there was a similar story: contempt and hatred for Christianity, the subsequent wrath of God, and in the end—conversion] that the God of the Christians is great and mighty, and all others were concordant; and immediately the king with the whole court rushed to the ground, venerating that crucifix; and in the courtyard of his palace he ordered soon to build a prayer house, a type of a square chapel, all of pure gold, decorated with precious stones, where on the altar he placed the mentioned crucifixion; there with his son, the prince and the successor to his Kingdom, with all the Royal court, he went every day, and not one but several times, to worship the crucified Christ.


A few days later, in his holy zeal, very sincerely and with great curiosity, he spoke to the above-mentioned Indians, interrogating and questioning them about matters that the Christian law contains, and promising to those Christians to enrich them in his Kingdom if they could give him orders and a way to talk to those learned people, who know the Christian law; so the king, with six of his main courtiers, along with his only son, the prince, decided to go with the above-mentioned Indians to visit the Fathers of the Society [of Jesus], and especially the Father Andrea Lopez; they arrived together, and the king’s zeal was so great, that later, satisfied with the Christian doctrine, preached by the aforesaid Father Andrea Lopez, the king was praying with great fidelity, so that the Father wished to baptize him and his son together with six of his first cavaliers, whom the king brought with him; and so, the mentioned Father, satisfied by the faithful king, baptized them all; and the king was all inspired by the piety that pleased the Lord, and he gave him a fever, from which he died; and before his death, with great faith, the king received all the sacraments with such a piety that is impossible to express; the king gave orders to the son, and the other six cavaliers, to watch over the law of the Christian, and not only that, but also to spread it in his Kingdom, asking the father Andrea to go along with his son in his Kingdom, to plant the faith, promising to build a magnificent сollege, and especially a сhurch, where walls would be of solid gold; from these words we can feel the great piety and zeal that the good king had towards his Kingdom.


After our Reverend Father General learnt about the mercy of God that found its way into these parts to convert their [Indian] souls, he made a report to His Holiness [the Pope], and together with our Father General they are determined to send a mission to the mentioned Kingdom of Paÿtiti the Father Andrea with a few others that are ready to go by order immediately after Easter.

With the favour of Your Reverence, ask God for protection in this holy mission. After the aforementioned Father Andrea Lopez found in that Indies of Peru some Indians, wild in faith, who were not baptized and did not have the Christian law, he began to teach them the Christian law; during this occupation he found the god which they worshipped, and which was a big strange [there is an adjective ‘bazarro’ in the original text that we doubtfully translated as ‘strange’] stone, with the size of a melon, weighing sixty-seven ounces, on which they burnt incense as worship to their god from stone. Father Andrea asked them how long they had had the god of a strange stone, and they answered that not so long, about a year.

The said Father Andrea questioned them, what god they had had before, and they answered that the Moon; they said that they accepted the new god of a strange stone, because of a never-ending miracles that the stone did in healing of those diseases, which were incurable, when his power was applied; the fact that the god gave them the stone against some diseases was a miracle. So, each time bringing to the god a sacrifice on a stone, they chip a piece off to give to the ailing and sick with incurable diseases, that the stone was able to heal.

Now Father Andrea Lopez, with the grace of God, convinced them that it is all a deception of the Devil, and that it is much better to worship the one God, from which the stone got its power; they believed very good, that pleased the Lord, therefore the said Father baptized them. And now they are good Christians, and Father Andrea brought with him the mentioned strange stone, which they worshipped as a god, and presented it to the Pope; the stone was very pleasing to His Holiness, both as the mercy that God showed towards those who had converted [to Christianity], leaving the aforesaid stone, and for the power of the stone, which cost was estimated as four thousand scudo [an Italian coin].

As you can there is very little detail in regarding the location of this alleged city?

Crow
 

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GoDeep

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Very few, if any, of these "lost" cities were ever lost. The locals always knew of them. They were "lost" to outside non indigenous explorers. Machu Picchu was heralded as one of the greatest "lost" city finds of the 20th century, problem is, the indigenous locals always knew of it and even guided the "discoverers" to it. It's like if an American or European Explorer didn't know about it, it was lost...lol
 

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Crow

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Very few, if any, of these "lost" cities were ever lost. The locals always knew of them. They were "lost" to outside non indigenous explorers. Machu Picchu was heralded as one of the greatest "lost" city finds of the 20th century, problem is, the indigenous locals always knew of it and even guided the "discoverers" to it. It's like if an American or European Explorer didn't know about it, it was lost...lol

Gidday Amigo

That is only partly true amigo.

When the conquistadors conquered Peru they brought with them diseases such as smallpox. That totally wiped out many settlements across the Andes. In areas below the altoplano the growth rate of jungle grows astronomically with a few years jungle can overgrow such abandoned settlements.

Such as ruins of Inka Tampu and the third Llaqtapata. Monte Punku, the citadels of Pantipayana (area Rataratayuq), Apucatina (area Pallamiyuq), Inka Raqay (area Qurimayu), Chawpichullu (area Chawpichullu), Hatun Monte (area Juy Huay) and Puma Qucha (Juy Huay) Among a many other areas.

While indeed locals do know some of sites, while there are other sites virtually unknown since the time of them being abandoned.

Crow
 

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Phil

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Gidday Phil

There is no easy answer to that question.

There is certainly historical references to "Payaiti"

Crow



Hi Crow,

I read the letter a few years ago, and one of the guards at the gate had a child who was very ill. The Priest wrote about praying for him and he was miraculously healed. In addition, the King's son died one day before the Priest arrived, and he wrote about praying for him for two days and miraculously brought him back to life. And lastly, he spoke of meeting three Germans at Paititi.

Somebody modified the original, which explains the use of modern terms.
 

Crow

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Hi Crow,

I read the letter a few years ago, and one of the guards at the gate had a child who was very ill. The Priest wrote about praying for him and he was miraculously healed. In addition, the King's son died one day before the Priest arrived, and he wrote about praying for him for two days and miraculously brought him back to life. And lastly, he spoke of meeting three Germans at Paititi.

Somebody modified the original, which explains the use of modern terms.

Gidday Phil

Its not uncommon that people with ulterior motives to manipulate the document to suit their agenda.

The fact remains yes there is a mention of this city of Payititi but is it an actual account or a Aesop fable like story to illustrate evangelism in the Peru?

Crow
 

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Phil

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Gidday Phil

Its not uncommon that people with ulterior motives to manipulate the document to suit their agenda.

The fact remains yes there is a mention of this city of Payititi but is it an actual account or a Aesop fable like story to illustrate evangelism in the Peru?

Crow


Is Paititi a myth?


In 1532, Francisco Pizarro took the Incan King, Atahualpa, hostage and demanded a ransom of gold that would fill a room 24' long by 18' wide and a height of 8', and double that amount in silver. In 1533, fearing an attack by the king's army, he executed the King. Unbeknownst to him, the army he seen was led by Inca General Ruminahui, who was transporting 750 tons of gold to pay the ransom (DOH!). Upon hearing the king was murdered, General Ruminahui hid the gold in a "cave" deep in the Llanganatis Mountains. So...........where did the Incans acquire over 750 tons of gold? There are very rich deposits in Ecuador and Peru, but none producing that volume.

On a different topic, one version of the legend says the Incan god, Viracocha, is living in an underground city with his army, and will one day come out of the city and rebuild his empire.

And lastly, Jesuit Priest, Andrés López, mentioned three German miners towards the end of the letter to the Vatican, which is not unusual because it is well known Spain relied on German mining engineers in the New World.

Is Paititi a myth? My personal theory is Paititi is very real. However, it is not a "city"...........It is a massive underground gold mine.
 

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Gidday Phil



If we look at paragraphs.

and they [Paÿtiti residents] are as white as Germans, very warlike and civilized in their life and governing. The king is very powerful and keeps the court in the manner of the Great Turk [Turkish sultan] with great majesty; his Kingdom is very richly decorated with gold, silver and many pearls in the way that they use it for pots and pans as we use iron here.


(are as white as Germans )That is not saying Germans are there? Its just comparison description of the people
Father Andrea Lopez encountered.

(The king is very powerful and keeps the court in the manner of the Great Turk [Turkish sultan] Its just comparison description of the leader he was not a Turkish sultan. it was way Father Andrea Lopez described what he saw by making comparisons.

But you can see how quickly things can be taken out of context.

Crow
 

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Crow

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Oh I should answer your question Is Paititi a myth?

I suspect Its a real place amigo. Its just details got lost in translation that created myths about it.

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Phil

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Oh I should answer your question Is Paititi a myth?

I suspect Its a real place amigo. Its just details got lost in translation that created myths about it.

Crow

Hi Crow,

I said it was a "personal theory"................I didn't say it was a good "personal theory". LOL


As for the Germans mentioned in the letter, it was written by a Jesuit, and the reason I am researching Paititi is because I think it is a heavily coded map. Albeit, my knowledge pertains to the Spanish code, and I am just beginning to research the Jesuits. So, you may be correct and it is nothing more than a report to the Vatican about their progress in the new world.

What do you think?
 

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Hi Crow,

I said it was a "personal theory"................I didn't say it was a good "personal theory". LOL


As for the Germans mentioned in the letter, it was written by a Jesuit, and the reason I am researching Paititi is because I think it is a heavily coded map. Albeit, my knowledge pertains to the Spanish code, and I am just beginning to research the Jesuits. So, you may be correct and it is nothing more than a report to the Vatican about their progress in the new world.

What do you think?

Gidday Amigo

You pretty much answered you question. it is nothing more than a report to the Vatican about their progress in the new world.

But there is some thing incredibly interesting about the document amigo?

Crow
 

KANACKI

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Hola Amigo Don Crow.

I see what your getting at?


Francisco Pizarro, a former pig keeper, had arrived in Cajamarca (Peru) in 1532 and began the sacking of the Inca empire. The abundant gold was used only for decorative elements and seemed inexhaustible. In fact, Pizarro executed Atahualpa (the last Inca, name held by the sovereign) even having received the ransom for it, which consisted of a room of 6 by 4 meters full of gold and two silver.

Look at the above date of events 1532?

The Jesuits arrived in Mexico and Peru in 1568. By coincidence, they arrived on the ship bearing Peru's most important viceroy, Francisco de Toledo.

1568? A whole 36 years after execution of the Inca emperor Atahualpa and looting of his ransom?

Yet here we are a This report, dating from sometime between 1567-1625 tell of an meeting with a king and an abundance of gold? So who was this Inca king with his Kingdom is very richly decorated with gold, silver and many pearls in the way that they use it for pots and pans as we use iron here, Father Andrea Lopez encountered?

And within ten days walk of Cusco?

Kanacki
 

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Gidday Kanacki

Exactly and What Inca King fled from the Spanish around that time frame?

Crow
 

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