Ireland : Metal detecting
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  1. #1

    Aug 2007
    Whites DFX
    7
    2 times

    Ireland : Metal detecting

    Hi,

    There's been a couple of topics on this forum regarding Ireland and the law on metal detecting. I'm based in Dublin and hunt on public beaches for coins.

    The law is very wrong and in my opinion would be thrown out if contested in the European Courts. It was obviously written by a bored, incompetent civil servant with nothing better to do.

    It basically states (from what I can discern) that while it is not illegal to buy or own a metal detector, it appears to be illegal to use one anywhere that the state decides could be of archaeological significance. This could mean your back garden if they so decide. Section 40 (See below for full text) implies : If found in possession of a metal detector you are presumed guilty of searching for archaeological artefacts, until found innocent. Lets reflect on that. Guilty until proven innocent. This is totally undemocratic and would, in my opinion, be thrown out if contested in the European court.

    Source http://www.ncmd.co.uk/law.htm#SOUTHERN_IRELAND

    SOUTHERN IRELAND The National Monuments (Amendment) Act
    1987
    (Section 2) states:

    Subject to the provisions of this section a person shall not:

    1a: Use or be in possession of a detection device in, or at the site of, a monument
    of which the Commissioners or a local authority are the owners or guardians or in
    respect of which a preservation order is in force or which stands registered in the
    Register or

    2a. in an archaeological area that stands registered in the Register or

    3a. in a Registered area

    OR

    b: Use, at a place other than a place specified in paragraph a of this subsection, a detection device for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects or

    c: Promote, whether by advertising or otherwise, the sale or use of detection
    devices for the purpose of searching for archaeological objects.

    Note: `Archaeological area' is defined as ` an area which the Commissioners
    consider to be of archaeological importance but does not include the area of a
    historical monument standing entered in the Register'.

    Section 40 states that `Where in a prosecution for an offence under this section it
    is proved that a detection device was used, it shall be presumed until the contrary
    is proved that the device was being used for the purpose of searching for
    archaeological objects'.

    <End quote>

    I'd also like to add that Minelab has it's European factory producing Metal detectors in Co Cork and has many Youtube vids of officials teaching how to use the Explorer SE on public beaches in Ireland. Go figure...


    Discussion?
    tricasgood likes this.
    DFX, Stock 950 coil, Bullseye II pinpointer

  2. #2
    us
    Jan 2006
    Washington state
    Ace 250
    974
    24 times

    Re: Ireland : Metal detecting

    Quote Originally Posted by DFX Hunter
    I'd also like to add that Minelab has it's European factory producing Metal detectors in Co Cork and has many Youtube vids of officials teaching how to use the Explorer SE on public beaches in Ireland. Go figure...
    I thought I'd read that Ireland wasn't "friendly" to metal detecting. Looks like they were right.

    Doesn't make too much sense to me, either. It's kinda like the Jack Daniels brewery being located in a dry county (alcohol prohibited). Go figure.

    good luck!
    Nan

  3. #3

    May 2006
    Europe
    Adventis II, GoldMaxx Power, Whites Surf Master PI Pro DD, Fisher 1280X Aquanaut, Fisher 1265X, Minelab Advantage, Hartmann 1023, Viking 6DX2
    574
    1 times

    Re: Ireland : Metal detecting

    Bit like some counties (bundesländer) in Germany, Federal law states everyone has the right to discover the past, and any "Treasure" found should be split 50% to 50%, finder to land owner. 13 of the 16 counties have now introduced their own "Treasure Laws", which vary between 50% automatically belongs to the county, and 100% automatically belongs to the county. Federal law also states that anyone wishing to research/search, or dig for antiques, should aquire a permit from the county Archeological office, and that these should be given without hinderance. Try getting one from one of these 13 counties, and you will be in for a lot of hinderance. When you ask, they don´t reply, or they say, we don´t issue any at the moment, or apply again in two years. Makes for long drawn out legal battles which the archeologists loose (At taxpayers expense), and ends up taking 4 or 5 years to get a permit, and after a year you have to reapply, and it starts again. 98% of all German detectorists don´t have a permit, and officially only seach for WW II relics, although the archeologists are now trying to get these classed as archeologically important now as well.
    My hearts in England, but my butts stuck in mainland Europe.

  4. #4

    Aug 2007
    Whites DFX
    7
    2 times

    Re: Ireland : Metal detecting



    True, roswellborn and rayredditch. Apparently the law was changed after the Derrynaflan Chalice find, the detectorist did the right thing: he immediately contacted the National museum and a lawyer. The museum were delighted with the find, as he immediately gave it to them and they proceeded to conduct an archaeological dig and unearthed more artefacts that were in dire need of restoration and preservation. The state then paid him and the landowner 50/50 of the worth. Unfortunately, a certain couple of idiots in the government decided it was too risky to allow future metal detecting as there was a possibility of people using machines in graveyards and so changed the law. I ask you !

    Personally, I consider myself a law-abiding detectorist and if I found anything that was even remotely of historical significance, would hand it in. Although, I would be worried to do this in case I would be arrested. It's a self defeating law.

    Won't stop me using my DFX though. The machine is brilliant.
    Mr.T likes this.
    DFX, Stock 950 coil, Bullseye II pinpointer

  5. #5

    Jun 2007
    88
    15 times

    Re: Ireland : Metal detecting

    I love Archaeology but I get annoyed when they insist that the past is only for them to discover.Shipwrecks...leave them all for us to get around to when we can get the funding,only we can do the job properly...Artifacts...don't metal detect leave them in the ground for us to get to.....etc.etc.Archaeologists want to advance their careers as much as the next person and most of the knowledge they glean is only for others in their field.If something is important and earth shattering then sure,bring in the authorities but if a King went out riding one day and lost his favorite ring well then it's finders keepers in my book.Metal detecting takes a lot of patience and dedication,I'm of the opinion that these things would remain hidden till the end of time..indeed many wonderful things are already permanently buried under roads and cities never to be found.Ultimately there should be a partnership,compensate people fairly and I bet you would be amazed at the items that come to light.
    BluffHunter likes this.

  6. #6

    Aug 2007
    Whites DFX
    7
    2 times

    Re: Ireland : Metal detecting

    Very True, able_walker.

    If anyone is heading over to Ireland to detect, let me know and I'll (Work permitting) try to join you. I'm sure the law is there to prevent Nighthawking and illegal removal of historical artefacts from the country. I'd like to promote responsible MD'ing in Ireland so we can get the landowners and Government on our side.
    DFX, Stock 950 coil, Bullseye II pinpointer

  7. #7

    May 2006
    Europe
    Adventis II, GoldMaxx Power, Whites Surf Master PI Pro DD, Fisher 1280X Aquanaut, Fisher 1265X, Minelab Advantage, Hartmann 1023, Viking 6DX2
    574
    1 times

    Re: Ireland : Metal detecting

    You might have some luck.Over here three counties (Bundesländer) of the 16 work reasonably well with detectorists, the others are still doing the Ostrich thing (Heads in the sand and let the world go by)
    My hearts in England, but my butts stuck in mainland Europe.

  8. #8

    Apr 2007
    13

    Re: Ireland : Metal detecting

    good luck dfx in trying to promote responsible mding . i tried it, i even had the backing of the irish farmers association but when i rang the national museum i hit a brick wall, they did post me out a manuscript of the law. if you can find a loophole please let me know, i am still determind to set up some kind of club to promote the hobby

  9. #9

    May 2006
    Europe
    Adventis II, GoldMaxx Power, Whites Surf Master PI Pro DD, Fisher 1280X Aquanaut, Fisher 1265X, Minelab Advantage, Hartmann 1023, Viking 6DX2
    574
    1 times

    Re: Ireland : Metal detecting

    I love the bit where they say you´re destroying the finds situation by removing objects in the first 12 inches, then come along with a bulldozer, and remove the top 40 inches before they start.
    My hearts in England, but my butts stuck in mainland Europe.

  10. #10

    Aug 2007
    Whites DFX
    7
    2 times

    Re: Ireland : Metal detecting

    True, not to mention the damage the government are doing to the historical site of Tara by building a motorway through it !!

    I'd be up for starting that club with you, Fusion. As far as I know, we don't have one in Eire yet.
    DFX, Stock 950 coil, Bullseye II pinpointer

  11. #11

    Aug 2007
    10

    Re: Ireland : Metal detecting

    Hi Irish people!

    I was living in Ireland from 09/06 until 04/07, I was studying english in Galway, and remember that I tryied to find a Club or a Metal Detecting Association, but it was impossible... I thougth, that Rep. of Ireland and UK had the same law refferd on this hobby.

    My idea was to spend my time with others detectorist and learning english at the same time, but I realized that something was wrong, No Clubs, No Associations (internet), nothing...

    Reading your post I realize that Ireland has different laws in this case, thats a pity, I whish you good luck from Spain, dont give up, and continue fighting for this beautiful hobby.

    My name is Pablo, argentinian, but now Im living in Madrid... I love Ireland!!! Shoulder to shoulder!!! (Ireland`s call)

  12. #12

    May 2006
    Europe
    Adventis II, GoldMaxx Power, Whites Surf Master PI Pro DD, Fisher 1280X Aquanaut, Fisher 1265X, Minelab Advantage, Hartmann 1023, Viking 6DX2
    574
    1 times

    Re: Ireland : Metal detecting

    England, and Wales have much the same laws, but Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Eire (Southern Ireland), all have different laws, mostly where it´s either forbidden, or anything found belongs 100% to the Government!
    My hearts in England, but my butts stuck in mainland Europe.

  13. #13
    Tall-paul

    Re: Ireland : Metal detecting

    Yep for sure,,, i come from England my self lived there for 40 years,, and watched m-d-ing become so very challenged by the goverment through the archeologists,, now in england its only treasure if its over 300 years old, then it has to be reported to the local finds liason officer and a solicitor being a good thing, and require a six figure grid reference as to the place where found.

    I love Archeology and all the history i can learn, but when i first saw the so called top muffins from time team, going in with the heavy jcb's and cats, i was shocked at how they could say we dont ike to damage fins and the m-d-ers do, lmao, .
    i remember tony robbinson saying us m-d-ers where the thieves of the land of archeology, my my, what a statement.

    Now the greatest find i ever remember them finding was a lead coffin from the roman or was it saxon age,, no treasure as such, unlike many m-d-ers out there finding the old banks of romans and saxons and celts, where they put there stash in the ground,, and along comes one of us and finds a nice hole or 3 full of gold..

    Iam all for getting responsable things done for m-d-ing,, but when the goverment will not see light and change the way things are, then what do you do, hang up the detector or just do the local parks of which some of those are out of bounds aswell. i dont think so we go to the farmers and get perrmission, and keep hunting,,, and i know there's a huge amount who night-hawk and get the better finds, cant blame them in this day and age, when you keep hitting them brick walls with the officials.

    now one loop hole would be to become a certified archeologist, and then you would be ok to be on schedueled land, after all this land is for the archies. even they use metal detectors.

    Most historic finds are found through a m-d-er in the first place, then the archies move in,, thats how it should be,, but when they schedual land it takes them forever, m-d-ers and archies should band together and become as one working and smiling together, to uncover great history great finds and show the world history and rare items for learning and just to be amazed.

    I remember one piece of history going on the black market for alot of money, of which the public dident see, and would of amazed alot of people as to the true detail and craftsmen-ship of a chest piece of armoury wore by the romans,and helmet, a person found in doncaster south yorkshire, it was so well preserved it had been oiled and the tunic was in good shape too, although a little had rotted, it was fantastic, maybe it was a second dress piece of a general who knows but it had been placed carefully in the ground to keep in good condition thats for sure, it had its own little tomb like place all folded up and oiled.
    The reason why it was kept quiet it was found on a piece of schedualed land and the owner dident even know anyone was on the farm land in the first place ,, they had just been testing a detector out that had just been purchased,, not bad for a first find with a new detector eh .

    england wales scotland & ireland is so full of ancient history and finds of a life time, there is more gold and silver in the ground than that of which has been uncovered, still there still waiting to be unearthed,

    I say have a shot again at the brick wall, and if it persists to stand there, what are you going to do,, i know what i would do and have done..

    H/H all Tallpaul.

  14. #14

    May 2006
    Europe
    Adventis II, GoldMaxx Power, Whites Surf Master PI Pro DD, Fisher 1280X Aquanaut, Fisher 1265X, Minelab Advantage, Hartmann 1023, Viking 6DX2
    574
    1 times

    Re: Ireland : Metal detecting

    Tony Robinson say´s we´re taking the history out of context when we remove objects in the first 30 cms (12 inches) of ground, but then he and his Time T*ts come along with a JCB or Catapillar, and remove 3 to 6 feet before they start searching at all. Last time a gold coin was found (The best thing ever found by TT according to Robinson), but it was found by a local´detectorist, searching the spoil of the 6 feet deep hole that hab been removed by TT, not found by anyone from TT themselves.
    My hearts in England, but my butts stuck in mainland Europe.

  15. #15
    Tall-paul

    Re: Ireland : Metal detecting

    >>>>>>>>>>Last time a gold coin was found (The best thing ever found by TT according to Robinson), but it was found by a local´detectorist, searching the spoil of the 6 feet deep hole that hab been removed by TT, not found by anyone from TT themselves.<<<<<<<<


    yep i hear ya,,, i forgot that gold coin was found, yes i remember now... all they actually found was how the walls actually met up or dident, ie the layout of roman villas or pottery,,, and he was running around like a little kid all excited over a new trench going in lol .

    they should make a series using a few detectorists on how they do it and what they do when they report the find to the local liason officer and do it properly and show that its then and only then that the archies get to know and they get there chance at it,, it would show that it is the m-d-er that actually finds the place and goods, and if it wasent for us they would find hardly jack sh*t and jack left town.....

 

 
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