JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[audigger53]

From what I read, there were 2 Virgen de Guadalupe stories. One to the West of Arivaca and one to the East. The one to the west was about the Bats and gold, the one to the East Silver. The one to the East was where the priests leaving from Tumacacori (just can't spell right,LOL) going down to Sonyoita stopped and put the chest into the Gualalupe (Silver) mine.

 

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[gollum]

The one with the bats is a very interesting story, but its not the VdeG.

The one East of Arivaca (Javelina Canyon) is not a mine at all (no mineralization around Tumacacori Mountain). In that case, the VdeG is just a man made tunnel made to store wealth before the suppression.

If you want to read a very interesting book on the Tumacacori Treasure, go to Ebay and get a copy of "Enigma at Tumacacori" by Gary Oliver. When you buy it from Ebay

Mike

 

[audigger53]

It was called that because he said it contained a gold statue of the Virgin. As per the story.

Javelina Canyon? I won't comment on as Capt Bill is/was working his site.
But as far as no mineralization around Tumacacori Mountain, please advise where that comes from.
Checked it. I can't see paying $80 with shipping for a 1992 book.
Years back I did talk with a guy in Mo about it and he had grown up around there. Back when they were putting in I-19, he and a friend found a Rock Outcrop between the lanes and it had a strange look to it. They took pictures of it and later he realized it was a carved map on the mountain range. With the trails also on it. He could not find the picture after all the moves and years that had gone by though. Would loved to have seen it.

 

[cactusjumper]

It was called that because he said it contained a gold statue of the Virgin. As per the story.

Javelina Canyon? I won't comment on as Capt Bill is/was working his site.
But as far as no mineralization around Tumacacori Mountain, please advise where that comes from.
Checked it. I can't see paying $80 with shipping for a 1992 book.
Years back I did talk with a guy in Mo about it and he had grown up around there. Back when they were putting in I-19, he and a friend found a Rock Outcrop between the lanes and it had a strange look to it. They took pictures of it and later he realized it was a carved map on the mountain range. With the trails also on it. He could not find the picture after all the moves and years that had gone by though. Would loved to have seen it.

Digger,

Try this: Enigma at Tumacacori Arizona by Oliver, Gary Don: Privately Printed, Portland, OR 9780963381309 Soft Cover, First Edition - Casa Paloma Books

You will also see the book listed, on the same page, for under $13.00 a copy.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[gollum]

It was called that because he said it contained a gold statue of the Virgin. As per the story.

Javelina Canyon? I won't comment on as Capt Bill is/was working his site.
But as far as no mineralization around Tumacacori Mountain, please advise where that comes from.
Checked it. I can't see paying $80 with shipping for a 1992 book.
Years back I did talk with a guy in Mo about it and he had grown up around there. Back when they were putting in I-19, he and a friend found a Rock Outcrop between the lanes and it had a strange look to it. They took pictures of it and later he realized it was a carved map on the mountain range. With the trails also on it. He could not find the picture after all the moves and years that had gone by though. Would loved to have seen it.

Buddy,

Capt Bill has claimed a lot of things over the years. He does not own that site. Gary Oliver had Treasure Trove Permits there since the 1980s. Javelina Canyon has been the most common place to look for the VdeG since 1768. Don't let Bill try and tell you he has rights to anything there. Gary spent a couple of hundred thousand, but ran out of money (and patience of the BLM) before striking the big time. The black soldier that gave part of that canyon the name "Camp Loco" was there. The Shiptons had a cabin there in the 1930s. My friend (that has actual Treasure Trove Permits) is in the next canyon over (Rock Corral Canyon). I can also pretty much guarantee you that Bill does not have a Treasure Trove Permit to legally work that canyon. It is in the Coronado National Forest.

Sorry for the rant, but I get pissed when someone tries to put their claim on something that is public domain and has been looked over, dug up, and blown up over a long time. Bill knows nothing other than the same stories you have already read.

Mike

 

[Crow]

Speaking of Capt Bill is he still alive? I know he was post here years ago? A real character with his trusty side kick bugs more than anything.


Crow

 

[gollum]

The thing that exasperated me about Bill was that he would make appointments to meet with different people in various places, then flake out and not show up. He did that several times and earned a bad reputation.

Mike

 

[Crow]

The thing that exasperated me about Bill was that he would make appointments to meet with different people in various places, then flake out and not show up. He did that several times and earned a bad reputation.

Mike

Reading between the lines of his posts I think that was always part of his nature and character anyway. I just wonder if the he was still alive?

Crow

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

I too Crow, He ad I had a great fencing match when I first came on line here.

 

[deducer]

deducer my friend, simply go to your favorite searce server and type in Jesuit conspiracies. A no are patently biased but an over whelming are very interesting. while you are searching ?

Don't really want to get into that because it's very easy to get derailed. A lot of those are pure speculation anyway. I only want to understand the Jesuits in the context of what they did here, particularly in the Southwest.

Although it's very easy to see why people are so quick to see conspiracies without looking at the facts, such as the relationship between the Jesuits and the Nazis which probably arose from a few comments that Hitler made:

“Above all I have learned from the Jesuits. And so did Lenin too, as far as I recall. The world has never known anything quite so splendid as the hierarchical structure of the [Roman] Catholic Church. There were quite a few things I simply appropriated from the Jesuits for the use of the [Nazi] Party.”

“I have learnt most of all from the Jesuit Order.… So far, there has been nothing more imposing on earth than the hierarchical organization of the [Roman] Catholic Church. A good part of that organization I have transported direct to my own [Nazi] party. …The Catholic Church must be held up as an example.… I will tell you a secret. I am founding an order [the Nazi SS] …In [Heinrich] Himmler [who would become head of the Nazi SS] I see our Ignatius de Loyola.”

This is more an admiration of the efficiency of (and subsequent imitation/institution of) the Jesuit power structure than anything else.

 

[Oroblanco]

Speaking of Capt Bill is he still alive? I know he was post here years ago? A real character with his trusty side kick bugs more than anything.


Crow

Ditto - have not seen anything from Capt Bill in some time now, hope everything is OK? I too crossed swords with him when I suggested that perhaps he might consider taking less of an arsenal along, when he complained that no one would partner up to go hunt treasures, he thought I meant NO guns at all which was not the point. I hope he is alright.

Thanks Deducer for posting that, I had read similar quotes but forgot where I saw it, but it claimed that the SS was deliberately modeled after the Jesuit Order. (Not for the mass murder part, but the organization and loyalty, secrecy etc). There are some other links that deserve some research too, as a great many treasures vanished in WW2.

Wishing you all a very prosperous and Happy New Year! I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[sailaway]

Just tried to call Bill's house and got no answer, but will keep trying as last time I talked to his wife he was in bad shape and could not get out of bed. Will let everyone know when I get her on the phone.

 

[sailaway]

I did call DinkyDick and asked if Bill had disclosed the location of where the hunt was to take place and was told that the exact location of Bill's area was never disclosed. Dick did say that there was more than three locations that Bill was working. Mike and Dick had went to Bill's house to go on a hunt but did things like building a fence and everything else but going on a hunt for two weeks at Bill's double wide trailer house. Bill farted around working on his former Border Patrol International Scout that appeared to have a broken block. It could not make it to town without over heating at sea level, much less out in the desert. Dick was there for two weeks and ended up leaving because Mike and Bill were fighting and Dick was worried they would kill each other while out in Arizona. Both Mike and Bill had a large arsenal so the possibility of a shootout was there. This was when my copy of the Molina Map was made by Dick and Mike had made his own hand drawn copy. Bugs the Great Dane had a skin problem, so it smelled bad.

 

[gollum]

Bad reputation or not, I hope he is okay. I don't wish anything bad on anybody.

Mike

 

[Frankn]

Well Hear are the GPS locations of the missions plus a wealth of information. Check out the ( contents) at the upper right.
Frank


http://southwest.library.arizona.edu/rud...div.7.html

Well this address gives a wealth of info. It opens with the location of the missions.

Check out the other info in the upper right hand 'topics'.

 

[Crow]

I did call DinkyDick and asked if Bill had disclosed the location of where the hunt was to take place and was told that the exact location of Bill's area was never disclosed. Dick did say that there was more than three locations that Bill was working. Mike and Dick had went to Bill's house to go on a hunt but did things like building a fence and everything else but going on a hunt for two weeks at Bill's double wide trailer house. Bill farted around working on his former Border Patrol International Scout that appeared to have a broken block. It could not make it to town without over heating at sea level, much less out in the desert. Dick was there for two weeks and ended up leaving because Mike and Bill were fighting and Dick was worried they would kill each other while out in Arizona. Both Mike and Bill had a large arsenal so the possibility of a shootout was there. This was when my copy of the Molina Map was made by Dick and Mike had made his own hand drawn copy. Bugs the Great Dane had a skin problem, so it smelled bad.

Thanks for the update.

Crow

 

[sailaway]

The "Mystery of the Lost Bells"
Bells were vitally important to daily life at any mission. The bells were rung at mealtimes, to call the Mission residents to work and to religious services, during births and funerals, to signal the approach of a ship or returning missionary, and at other times; novices were instructed in the intricate rituals associated with the ringing the mission bells. In 1846, two bells, the oldest in Alta California, were purchased from Misión Nuestra Señora de Loreto Conchó (Our Lady of Loreto) in Loreto, Baja California Sur, Mexico in exchange for six burro loads of barley and wheat. The bells were inscribed: "N.S. De Loreto 1723" and "San Pedro 1767." After the Mission began to deteriorate in the 1830s, and the bells were hoisted onto the yoke shown in the photograph at right. On a summer night, in 1926, the bells disappeared, apparently stolen. The day after they disappeared, a local named Jose Maria Osuna found the clappers (bell ringers) and took them home for safekeeping. After Osuna's death, the clappers were passed down to others, until they were eventually returned to the Mission in 1959. In 1966, a remnant of one of the bells was discovered; details regarding where and how it was found have never been revealed.
In 1993, a local molder named Ed Schwaesdall and his son John struck a new bell (made mostly of brass and copper) and donated it to the Mission in honor of the installation's 175th anniversary.
In 2012, a piece of one of the mission's original two bells was recovered after the unearthing of an anonymous account of them in an oral history transcription.
Santa Ysabel Asistencia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It would be interesting to know how San Pedro's bell ended up in the Baja of California area, and why it was stolen.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Just tried to call Bill's house and got no answer, but will keep trying as last time I talked to his wife he was in bad shape and could not get out of bed. Will let everyone know when I get her on the phone.

Ya see? Right there ^ there it is ^ ... the reason why I can't give you all my numba.

You all would be calling me when I was dead. Or worse yet you would be callin' my wife

 

[sailaway]

Conceptual, I find that statement of yours very interesting , coming from you as you are a self proclaimed former Jesuit. I thought you had been in the business of life after death? Do you no longer believe that there is a place for you in Heaven? Did you not rush to the bedside of those in your flock when on their death bed? Pray for the souls of those that had passed on? Comfort those who where left behind? Why would it not be a good thing to be concerned about the health of the living, or give condolences for the loss, which ever the case may be? I did check the local newspaper and found no article in the obituary section online, before calling. (does not mean that was not found)

 

[gollum]

Conceptual, I find that statement of yours very interesting , coming from you as you are a self proclaimed former Jesuit. I thought you had been in the business of life after death? Do you no longer believe that there is a place for you in Heaven? Did you not rush to the bedside of those in your flock when on their death bed? Pray for the souls of those that had passed on? Comfort those who where left behind? Why would it not be a good thing to be concerned about the health of the living, or give condolences for the loss, which ever the case may be? I did check the local newspaper and found no article in the obituary section online, before calling. (does not mean that was not found)

You have it all wrong Sailaway! CN is worried that he might be watching from Heaven as a bunch of people call his wife checking up on him and hitting on her!

Mike