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  1. #76
    pt
    Sep 2014
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    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryano View Post
    Dog’s post got me thinking: I read about some of you researching The Spanish Archives for information or clues about these mining operations. It blows my mind that there would still be information detailing the locations of gold and silver mines, storehouses, etc that hasn’t already been exploited by the big boys (billion dollar mining corps, political titans etc)). Surely information like that would be immensely valuable to the people in charge (Royal families, Roman Catholic ecumenical councils) and would be protected through politically turbulent times. If I was a European regent or religious leader and understood that the wealth of America is forever out of reach, I would capitalize on my knowledge and sell that information to the industrial barons or heads of state of 18th/19th century USA.

    So where/how did these maps you guys are sharing or alluding to end up in the hands of mere mortals (no offense, lol!) ??
    It takes money and good connections, including respected academic credentials, to be allowed to research documents in the Seville archives. I've posted the protocols before for those who were interested. Early Spanish sites in the New World and elsewhere can be researched if you have some pretty good info to begin with, since specific documents have to be requested, and I'm sure modern discoveries have been and will be made for the diligent. That said, it's ungodly naive to assume that information leading to fabulous abandoned gold mines is available by browsing in the "Spanish archives." Anyone need an explanation why?

    Same goes with treasure maps, as you alluded to. Why would a schmo ever lay eyes on a genuine map? Even if Noss The Grifter somehow came across genuine maps, how did they come to be published into the public domain? I guess we're all fortunate, eh? Or hopelessly gullible.

    That said, I was given one of these old maps myself a few years ago, either an obvious modern copy or a hoax of some sort. As with the NP map, I would have dismissed it if it weren't for certain symbols and their alignments, which I found independently during prior decades exploring in certain areas, some of these associations not available anywhere else. Do I "believe" the MLCXVI ANNO MARIANO" map? All I can say for certain is that whoever drew it up was well informed.

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  2. #77
    us
    Knight of the Round Bowl

    Feb 2014
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    Jesuit Symbols?

    I suppose one explanation is that the map bearer met a untimely end at the hands of person(s) with a lust for gold ? Murder and thievery seems to be common factor in these stories.
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  3. #78
    us
    Fortune Favors the BOLD, while Karma Favors the Wise!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryano View Post
    I suppose one explanation is that the map bearer met a untimely end at the hands of person(s) with a lust for gold ? Murder and thievery seems to be common factor in these stories.
    That was the case with Willie Douthitt (and his friend Doc Noss).

    In the case of the Jesuits, they were hiding their wealth from the Spanish. They knew the Suppression was coming before their arrests in 1767. When arrested, they were only allowed to keep the clothes on their backs, their breviaries, and a copy of Thomas á Kempis' "An Imitation of Christ". If they had tried to smuggle out a map, they would have easily been caught, and their hidden treasures compromised.

    HIDDEN treasures were hidden for a reason. The hiders didn't want anybody else to find them!

    Mike
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  4. #79
    Charter Member

    Nov 2013
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    I agree that they must have had some knowledge of what was coming for them. They would have hidden their wealth away from the missions. I have a theory on where they may have hidden some of it. There are many signs at places where no missions are known to be. Way to much for a trail. Most of these places are at a 12 mile distance from each other. Well that is only tested in my area. Have anyone noticed this out west?
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  5. #80
    it
    Sep 2016
    Mexico
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    For an explanatiom as to where the dore' bars came from, they came fro the Tayopa mines in Chih, Mexico, see NP's lil map.!
    They was the storage pts for transference from the nines to Chih. city to the l Paso and then to Victori Peak and the Caballo mt, where they had the holding caves ready for a quick trip -realitively - down the rio del Norte to Matamoros to a waiting jesuit ship for transference to Rome See Oro.
    Last edited by Real of Tayopa; Jul 22, 2019 at 10:19 AM.
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  6. #81
    us
    Knight of the Round Bowl

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    The famous Spanish Treasure Fleet lost in the Florida hurricane of 17something that Mel Fisher found - hundreds (thousands?) of tons of bullion - was that gold mined in Mexico ? South America ? Old Mexico/California/Arizona/New Mex ? is it a mystery ?
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  7. #82
    us
    Jul 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryano View Post
    The famous Spanish Treasure Fleet lost in the Florida hurricane of 17something that Mel Fisher found - hundreds (thousands?) of tons of bullion - was that gold mined in Mexico ? South America ? Old Mexico/California/Arizona/New Mex ? is it a mystery ?
    No not a mystery they know were it came from there has been tons of research done on the recovery of that treasure.
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  8. #83
    us
    Fortune Favors the BOLD, while Karma Favors the Wise!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryano View Post
    The famous Spanish Treasure Fleet lost in the Florida hurricane of 17something that Mel Fisher found - hundreds (thousands?) of tons of bullion - was that gold mined in Mexico ? South America ? Old Mexico/California/Arizona/New Mex ? is it a mystery ?

    You should do a bit more research on the subject. Fisher found one ship from one fleet that a hurricane wiped out in 1622. There were several treasure fleets that were decimated by hurricanes. The two largest losses came from the 1622 fleet and the 1715 (Plate) Fleet. There are no "KNOWN" Jesuit owned ships in any of the lost fleets.

    The Atocha was a Spanish Ship. The manifest of the Atocha is a matter of public record. With the exception of smuggled and worn gold and gems, every bar, coin, and emerald is listed in the official manifest.

    Mike
    Last edited by gollum; Jul 24, 2019 at 10:32 AM.
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  9. #84
    us
    Knight of the Round Bowl

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    Jesuit Symbols?

    Sorry guys - I’ve made some lazy posts lately. I’ll try and do my ‘homework’ before posting such questions.

    My thoughts behind that question were of the mentioned rumors of Fisher searching the interior western US because he recovered treasure that he suspected was sourced from N. America.

    I’ll search the forums and post back later.

    edit: Sorry Mike , I realize now im way Off Topic in your thread. Please disregard
    Last edited by Ryano; Jul 24, 2019 at 01:20 PM. Reason: oops
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  10. #85
    pt
    Sep 2014
    2,675
    7021 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryano View Post
    Sorry guys - I’ve made some lazy posts lately. I’ll try and do my ‘homework’ before posting such questions.

    My thoughts behind that question were of the mentioned rumors of Fisher searching the interior western US because he recovered treasure that he suspected was sourced from N. America.

    I’ll search the forums and post back later.

    edit: Sorry Mike , I realize now im way Off Topic in your thread. Please disregard
    I've seen an original correspondence from the Fisher group regarding obtaining rights to certain mining claims on a mountain in the Pinos Altos Range in NM. The mountain was once known by the Hispanic community as Santo Nino de Atocha, who is the Patron Saint of the region. Interestingly, the letter not only referred to gold, but also emeralds. The letter also made a passing reference to another site in Utah. I would have photographed the letter, but I was unprepared and didn't have a camera with me. I remember that the letter was dated after Mel Fisher's passing and that, as I recall, Fisher's son had signed it.

    Here's the front window of the old Catholic church in Pinos Altos. Santo Nino is forever gazing at the PA Range.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #86
    us
    Knight of the Round Bowl

    Feb 2014
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    Thanks Steve. Very cool.
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