Cant hunt school property without a 1,000,000 insurance policy.

GuitarGuy

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Was what the Pike County board told me today asking permission to hunt a school in which the principle required me to do before she would allow me. Guy at the board said he didnt care that I hunted it, but I would have to have a 1,000,000 dollar insurance policy before I could be on school property during non school events.
 

1320

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I would respectfully ask for the legal citation...could be something local but generally speaking, someone just doesn't want you there is my thinking. I have never sought permission to detect a public school even though at some locations it is a good idea to have a blessing. If you want to detect that place that bad, that type of policy can be bought for ten bucks. However, if you did buy it..chances are she will continue to find other ways to halt your effort or at least slow you to a crawl while waiting for "approval" from a higher authority. She may be considering you as a vendor, sometimes they are required to have a policy...
 

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l2hunt

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wow, that's crazy! i'm so lucky with my school district! anyway, a couple pointers for ALL when it come to school districts! first hunt school grounds only on weekends, preferably when there is no school/sports events etc. second, hunt schools during summer break, for the most part no one is around except custodial folks and maintenance and generally they aren't worried about you cause they are overwhelmed with extra projects they can't take care during the school season...that's my two cents from a guy with inside knowledge:)
 

1320

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wow, that's crazy! i'm so lucky with my school district! anyway, a couple pointers for ALL when it come to school districts! first hunt school grounds only on weekends, preferably when there is no school/sports events etc. second, hunt schools during summer break, for the most part no one is around except custodial folks and maintenance and generally they aren't worried about you cause they are overwhelmed with extra projects they can't take care during the school season...that's my two cents from a guy with inside knowledge:)[/QUOTE

Great advice
 

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GuitarGuy

GuitarGuy

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Just to clarify, the principle (lady), requested I get board permission because she wasn't sure it was even allowed.
The guy I called at the board was the one who said I would have to have the 1,000,000 medical coverage to be on school
property during non school events. He said it was a state wide policy, not local.
 

1320

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I seriously, seriously doubt what the board member is telling you. Just about every school in Kentucky serves as a voting precinct, hosts a donkey basketball game, Shriners circus, becomes an after hours park for joggers, families on the playground, bake sales, benefit walks for cancer....you name it. All of these are non-school events. I bet that even the school in question hosts at least three of four of these and I guarantee you no one has a million dollar insurance policy. Just hunt it......
 

Tom_in_CA

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guitar guy, let's be honest: If you drive by that school after hours (like on a Saturday, for instance), is anyone else out there using the school grounds for "non school events" ? For example: anyone jogging the track? using the monkey bars or swing sets? Etc.... If so, do you think THEY got a $1,000,000 insurance policy? I think you are merely the latest of victim of "no one cared ... TILL you asked".

In my area, we just detect schools after 5pm, or on weekends. No one cares unless you're being a nuisance in some other way. However, I'm sure if I asked enough bored city councilmen, or school admin "can I?", I'm sure it'd have to go before a committee, they'd have to vote, they'd require insurance, a parade permit, and so forth. Moral of the story? If you ask enough people if you can pick your own nose: Someone will eventually tell you "no".
 

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GuitarGuy

GuitarGuy

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Thanks for all the advice. The "just show up and start swinging" method was how I did approach the property that day. It was after school hours around 6PM. They were having a little league game/practice and my guess was that someone phoned the principle and she came walking out and asked me to leave nicely because she wasn't sure I was allowed to do that on school property. This is her 1st year as a principle and I think she was just gun shy and worried that by allowing me to continue would look bad on her if she was wrong to do so.
 

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GuitarGuy

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Update on this. Here is a reply sent from the principle via email today of me asking again and pointing out the fact that the property always has parents and kids seen playing on the school equipment during after school hours and during school break and if they were required to have insurance.

"Thank you for emailing me asking permission to dig metal on our school grounds. I must abide by the school policy (which is the law) and give you permission only if you provide the insurance policy. I wanted to have my baby shower here at the school and if I had proceeded then I too would have had to pay the $1,000,000 insurance policy which is around $200 at both insurance places I called. I found another location for my venue. We do not allow birthday parties, showers, use of facilities, etc. except to those who pay the insurance policy. The little league has their own insurance policy. As for people who use the track or playground, that is off limits but if they trespass then they are responsible for their own injuries. I am attaching the "Use of Facilities" and "Rental" Policies for the Pike County School System. I have spoken with assistant superintendent regarding this issue. You are welcome to call him as well."

They actually sent me school rental contract policy forms. :icon_scratch:
 

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1320

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So, she in fact acknowledges that the school system allows trespassing without an insurance policy. I would consider you just another trespasser who's responsible for his own injury....lol. Selective inforcement, double standard. Don't think you can win this but at least the principle is working with you. As I mentioned earlier, if you bought a policy someone would find a way to keep you off. Thanks for the update.
 

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I've never had luck dealing with pencil pushers like principles, superintendents, etc. On the last school property that I detected, I got permission from the director of facilities. He is in charge of lawn care, cleaning, maintenance, and stuff like that. This guy actually had a bit more common sense, and didn't seem to care as long as I didn't make a mess or leave any big holes open.

People in the office have plenty of time to read through countless rules and regulations, to find a reason to justify telling you "no". Someone in charge of upkeep of the school has plenty of other things to worry about, and isn't going to worry about some guy metal detecting and suing the school for a million bucks.

Sounds like the school is a lost cause for now. Wait a while and let them forget about your request, and ask somebody different next time, like the head of maintenance or something.
 

Tom_in_CA

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reply

Update on this. Here is a reply sent from the principle via email today of me asking again and pointing out the fact that the property always has parents and kids seen playing on the school equipment during after school hours and during school break and if they were required to have insurance.

"Thank you for emailing me asking permission to dig metal on our school grounds. I must abide by the school policy (which is the law) and give you permission only if you provide the insurance policy. I wanted to have my baby shower here at the school and if I had proceeded then I too would have had to pay the $1,000,000 insurance policy which is around $200 at both insurance places I called. I found another location for my venue. We do not allow birthday parties, showers, use of facilities, etc. except to those who pay the insurance policy. The little league has their own insurance policy. As for people who use the track or playground, that is off limits but if they trespass then they are responsible for their own injuries. I am attaching the "Use of Facilities" and "Rental" Policies for the Pike County School System. I have spoken with assistant superintendent regarding this issue. You are welcome to call him as well."

They actually sent me school rental contract policy forms. :icon_scratch:

guitar-guy, read through what you yourself are writing in s-l-o-w motion. You say yourself:

".... pointing out the fact that the property always has parents and kids seen playing on the school equipment during after school hours and during school break ..."

From that I infer that other people in the neighborhood can be seen, when the school is not in use, doing innocuous things like using the monkey bars, flying a kite, jogging the track, etc... (unless the perimeter is fenced like Ft. Knox??) You point that out to her, right? And ask if THOSE users are getting that insurance she speaks of. And your implied point, of course, is that obvsiously they are NOT getting that "insurance" and are just people who .... just go. And you think that by pointing that out to her, that she's going to see the folly of her stance, and also "allow" YOU to "just go" as well.

And also I notice something very telling in her answer to you: she refers to your hobby NOT as "metal detecting", but rather, as "dig metal". Where the h*ck did the word "dig" enter into that conversation? Is that how you characterized your hobby and request? As in "Hi, can I please go dig on your school grounds please?" No, of course not. You probably just asked to "metal detect". The "dig" part is probably just her own mental image of what you're going to do. But she can't sit there as split hairs all day about who gets booted (and given the "insurance" song & dance) because she thinks they're doing something "weird". Verses who DOESN'T get booted (those other people we all know simply "go" and no one cares or boots them). Can you blame her?


And you say yourself that probably the only reason you ever got the boot that first day, was that little league parent probably had a bee-in-their-bonnett when they saw you during a game there. But put yourself in that admin. lady's shoes: If she says "sure, go ahead", then she's "responsible" for you now. SO TOO would she have to tell those track joggers and kids on the monkey bars the SAME line about insurance, if THEY were to ask. So your answer as to why those other people job the track and use the monkey bars, without insurance, is: THEY DIDN'T ASK (hint hint). If they had asked, then they too could start forums and make posts lamenting their loss of freedoms, of how unfair it is, etc...

Now, I'm not saying that you should ever defy an order or a scram. Sure, give lip service and leave at that time. But I would have just returned when she, and any such little league things weren't there. You have to remember that you're in an odd-ball hobby that draws curious stares, and has admitted connotations. So sometimes you have to be a little more "discreet" than someone like a monkey-bar user. Sometimes you have to pick "lower traffic" times than the track jogger.

But if it were me, I would just take that as a "come back later when all such busy-bodies are truly gone". In other words, do what 1320 is telling you: You're just a trespasser who's responsible for his own injury. But for pete's sake, use a little discretion on your timing. Because now that you've gone and made a big spectacle of yourself (thinking you needed to "win her over" and "get her permission" with all your letter-writing), you've now got a new problem to deal with: She's now going to remember you. In other words, perhaps she'd never have given the matter thought after the initial encounter, and just forgotten it. But now that you've put this "pressing issue" front and center for her to compose detailed legal responses to, well guess what's going to happen the next time she sees you or another md'r out there? She's going to subconsciously think: "Aha! There's one of THEM" and start booting others. So I think you just dug your hole deeper by making yourself a big red X. Should have just walked off, given it a few month break, and just returned at a more opportune time when no games or school admin. were going on.
 

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GuitarGuy

GuitarGuy

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I also noticed how she worded it as "digging metal"..I asked to metal detect and look for coins..I said look for coins exactly as to make it clear as to what it was I was looking for and to not make it appear like I wanted to look for large scrap metal, which is a big problem in my area with pill heads stealing metal from private property, power lines, etc.

I agree that it wasn't the best thing to do by emailing her and drawing more attention to myself..it just rubbed me the wrong way and I had already written off detecting it without doing it her way and just wanted to see how she would explain all the other people who "trespass" and are not asked to leave. This school is smack in the middle of a busy small town high traffic area and is surrounded my houses and businesses so its impossible to be there without being seen by someone.

She lives just down the street from the school as well and would more than likely drive by and see me there herself so I had no plans on making things worse by showing up again and being spotted again. Talking with people in the area who know most of the staff at this school has told me that its treated like her own private property and that most of the people seen there playing are her neighbors and friends, whom obviously gets a free pass and don't like strangers around.

Unless I can get the insurance dirt cheap, I'm just gonna write this one off, but just wanted to make her aware that I know other local people are getting access to the school without the same treatment.

Question on the insurance..would this be an add on to a car insurance policy or a what? I can't nail down the exact kind of policy I would need..I think its a 'PIP' Personal Injury Policy..or something to that effect, but looking online I cant nail down exactly how to go about getting it done..if its cheap enough..I will do it just to be able to hand her the papers and start swinging away as this is all the board said I needed and that they would approve it themselves with the policy to cover their butts.
 

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Tom_in_CA

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If the school yard were giving up nice old silver coins ........ and it were me ..... I'd just go at night. Even though she may live "just down the street", CERTAINLY she's not parked there, after dark, with infrared or night-vision goggles, is she? But that's just me. I wouldn't spend one cent on insurance, (unless the site were REALLY good, and there truly WAS no other way).

But that's just me.
 

1320

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The type of insurance isn't an add on type, it's a stand alone policy. Event Liability, Commercial Umbrella, Hold Harmless insurance, something along those lines. You'd have to go thru an insurance broker to get it. Would be best to get the specific requirements from the school if you're seriously looking into it. Would be interesting to see if the school would provide you (in writing) the actual type of policy they require. If it's a local "law" then the specifics should be written somewhere other than an email from her to you. So much of what you get from someone "in charge" is often hearsay that continues to get passed around from person to person, year to year. I would just point blank ask her this "If I purchase this policy, will I have your blessing to look for coins?" If she "owns" the school then give her ownership of the decision. So, if you do get the policy and she grants you permission then.. any down stream *****ing from Little League moms belongs to her. Same would be true for the up stream *****ing with the Board. I can almost guarantee you that purchasing the policy would not be the end of your battle.

If everyone that wanted to search this ground was denied permission and every person that searched without permission was kicked off....you just might be sitting on a gold mine.......hmmmmmm.........best of luck.
 

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GuitarGuy

GuitarGuy

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It dates back to the late 40's..so it should be a good spot comparable to the other schools built around that time that I have done. Its never been detected before..I'm almost certain..I'm almost 40 and while growing up here all my life, I have never witnessed anyone out metal detecting at any place or time. The older people around here are a little apprehensive about it all on private property...its like walking into an Amish camp with a video camera..lol

Add to that, we have a lot of the shotgun wielding old timers with the "Stay off my property" mentality and lots of illegal pot growing in some remote areas that will get ya on some milk cartons if ya stumble into the wrong spots in the woods.
 

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EastKyMiner

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It dates back to the late 40's..so it should be a good spot comparable to the other schools built around that time that I have done. Its never been detected before..I'm almost certain..I'm almost 40 and while growing up here all my life, I have never witnessed anyone out metal detecting at any place or time. The older people around here are a little apprehensive about it all on private property...its like walking into an Amish camp with a video camera..lol

Add to that, we have a lot of the shotgun wielding old timers with the "Stay off my property" mentality and lots of illegal pot growing in some remote areas that will get ya on some milk cartons if ya stumble into the wrong spots in the woods.

There is about 6 of us on here that has hunted many of schools in Pike County. Dating back to the early 90.s. I have been busy with some personal matters but shoot me a pm and be glad to tell you the schools and some fellow Tnet friends will help you anyway we can. We have never been told not to hunt. But there is first time for everything.
 

EastKyMiner

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There is about 6 of us on here that has hunted many of schools in Pike County. Dating back to the early 90.s. I have been busy with some personal matters but shoot me a pm and be glad to tell you the schools and some fellow Tnet friends will help you anyway we can. We have never been told not to hunt. But there is first time for everything.

When I mean the early 90.s we have been hunting that long.

HH. Miner
 

Tom_in_CA

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.... We have never been told not to hunt .....

Well gee eastkyminer, you know what that means don't you? You didn't ask enough people "can I?" or tromp around during little league games with a big-red-X on your back. Congratz for "getting it". I too hunt schools in all the cities around me, and ... so long as you're not there when any staff is there, then presto: out-of-site is out-of-mind.
 

EastKyMiner

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Well gee eastkyminer, you know what that means don't you? You didn't ask enough people "can I?" or tromp around during little league games with a big-red-X on your back. Congratz for "getting it". I too hunt schools in all the cities around me, and ... so long as you're not there when any staff is there, then presto: out-of-site is out-of-mind.

Hey. What I mean we are allowed to hunt school property as long as there is no school in session or functions. We also do not get on new fields or enclosed areas with lock. And yes we have permission. Gee..just trying to help. Sound like he wanted to hunt and older school area. Sorry to get you so upset.
HH..Miner
 

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