KGC Compass Help

[sniffer]

sounds like beale has a giant pot, opps I mean, chip on his shoulder

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Shucks my friends, the energy needed to move a compass needle, regardless if whether it is of a vertical or horizontally pivoted construction, can readily be computed for each compass., Also the energy of the concentrated magnetic field of a buried magnetic materiel can also be calculated.

I am sure that SWR, my friend, can dig up the formulae for us.

I do have a question, what if you subject a small area to a high voltage DC current aligned with the magnetic declention of the location?

Don Jose de La Mancha

"I exist to Live, not live to exist"

Don Jose de La Mancha

[Kentucky Kache]

I do have a question, what if you subject a small area to a high voltage DC current aligned with the magnetic declention of the location?

Don Jose de La Mancha

"I exist to Live, not live to exist"

Don Jose de La Mancha

I give up, what would happen?

[lamar]

Dear group;
IMVHO, compasses are so passe! Why not use a GPS? They are much easier to manipulate and have far greater accuracy than any compass, plus they have an entire range of nifty features! Is there an official KGC approved handheld GPS available? If not, there will be once everyone reads this post.
Your friend;
LAMAR

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning my lost friend Lamar: Where have you been? I have honestly missed you. You have a wealth of information which I intend to milk out of you.

As for the GPS, apparently you missed the original post in which she ( my lost luv, sigh ) is curious if a standard compass wil react to a buried treasure. For this, a GPS would be useless, it is only for locating one's position on the earth.

Don Jose de La Mancha (alias Tayopa, Til Eulenspiegel, and on)

"I exist to LIVE, not live to exist"

[Gypsy Heart]

Well I cannot get it to work.
I have a new standard issue Army compass. This morning I stood over a iron dutch oven..held the compass at one foot...nothing ...perfectly still
Held it over the riding lawn mower,the washing machine ,the kitchen stove and engine block ....nothing.....if I am standing perfectly still I get nothing. If I walk or move or basically breathe ,it gently moves perhaps a degree....so with a person walking the woods on a line ,its going to waver a bit.....but when over an iron nail horseshoe etc that they used as signs ,I am not going to be able to do this and need to use my detector.
Thanks everyone for their help and I am going to be posting some signs and would appreciate any help .

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Allo boattow: I have the same exact dip meter. The instructions are quite specific, you must align it with the local magnetic north before staring to grid with it.

It "IS" far more senitive than a conventionally pivoted compass, but still not my choice for detecting.. It gives me a 90* movement 6 ' from my keyboard, while my Brunton and Military prismatic don't even quiver.

Incidentally, mine reads AGUA instruments, Cincinatti.Ohio. also.

Don Jose de La Mancha

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Cache crazy: Subjecting the area to a hi voltage DC current, aligned to the magnetic declension, would reinforce the natural field greatly in any magnetic susceptible material.

Don Jose d eLa Mancha

[Kentucky Kache]

Cache crazy: Subjecting the area to a hi voltage DC current, aligned to the magnetic declension, would reinforce the natural field greatly in any magnetic susceptible material.

Don Jose d eLa Mancha

A DC signal, pointed in the direction of the "hit" signal? How strong would the DC signal need to be?

[lamar]

Dear group;
How can such a silly thing work? A compass will ONLY respond to ferrous metals, ie, iron. Therefore, how can ANY compass be used to locate gold or silver? In my very humble opinion, anybody who states that a compass can be used to locate buried gold is trying to pull a fast one, my friends.

And, if using a compass to locate iron artifacts, why not simply use a decent metal detector? A Metal detector will locate iron objects MUCH deeper than if replying on the iron to deflect a compass needle in any noticable way. Trust me everyone, if ANY of this nonsense were true, would it not stand to reason the US Navy would be VERY interested in a device such as this?
Your friend;
LAMAR

[Clueman]

I took a $4.99 walmart cheap piece of compass taped it to a 3'stick, with the compass perpendicular to the ground (NOT PARALLEL)
passed it over REAL CLUES I've already found (plow points, stove parts) going VERY SLOWLY the needle DOES Fluctuate.

ANY DEVIATION of the needle would suffice to indicate a metal clue ........CAREFULLY , GENTLY , expose the clue then grid, graph, it's direction, and follow the clue........To the $$$

Their system does work....it did then......it does now. I know at least 6 guys who have seen the shiny proof.
You guys shouldn't invest the time reinventing the "wheel"..... remember mapping the clues, and their position in the grid is crucial.

Besides NOW we have metal detedtors.

FYI dowsing does work.....just not for all of us. Many of my neighbors dowse (witch ) for water, as well as other things.

I've kept quiet here, waiting for my lawyer to say I can legally announce our Arkansas proof. (NOT THE 9 JACKS...That will take 3 weeks and some investment.)

Follow the bent trees.......find and analyze the clues......map the trees, and clues and ALL their lines......then get your mattox,
detector, and HUNT. Properly executed, you WILL be met with proof positive. (unless one of "them" , or I were there first)

Clueman

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI: two words: "DO WE" ??

Don Jose de La Mancha

"I exst to LIVE, not live to exist"

[Clueman]

Hey Row Boat, or tow boat, or whatever........They (Templar Knights, Masons, KGC ) did exist. They EXIST NOW.

I, and others, have heard one of our local Judges here, in NWA , recently brag about his ACTIVE KGC , involvement. You obviously have been met with failure and so........
since you are full of yourself........other folks obviously couldn't be better , or ...... know MORE than you.......Are you more off, or moron. Since you have been met with KGC hunting failure, why should anyone fail to recognize your expertise?

WHAT color is the sky in your reality?

Mine has had another golden rainbow!

Since you can't row the boat, get it towed.

[Gypsy Heart]

Listen boys ...I didnt come here to start an arguement...I wanted proof that a compass could be used to find KGC clues in the ground while walking the line.
I know I have good detectors. I have read stories about people following the KGC lines before detectors were available and finding caches using a compass.....I am just trying to sort fact from fiction so I know if other clues or stories told are true
I know that in the thirties that people were claiming they had used compasses to find caches...I want to know if this is BS or if it happened.

[Rob in KS]

I found this article about land surveying. It talks about when they started placing an iron pipe next to stone survey markers to aid in locating them. They mentioned using a dip needle to.

I just thought it was interesting.

[okietreasurehunter]

A dip needle is a bit different than a compass. I've done the compass thing and you'll find it moves around with each step. The dip needle is more stable and does react to iron in a manner in which you can tell. You can buy these on ebay fairly cheap, but I still put my faith in a good detector. Keep chasing them KGC clues boys and girls.

http://okietreasurehunter.blogspot.com/

[Rebel - KGC]

WELL! THIS has been interesting... SDN reacts to iron, eh? SOME compasses reacts to iron, eh? Has
ANYONE thought that MAYBE, KGC, etc. buried treasure UNDER iron "junks" on top of it a FEW feet? Iron pipes were put along KGC "markers" to aid in "guided clues"? LOL...

[okietreasurehunter]

I've been hearing about the KGC for years now and as to date there has been nobody come forward with undeniable proof of any KGC burials. Oh, I've heard many claims of people knowing people who have found stuff, but that goes for about anything in life. Here's the problem. How do you prove a cache is KGC. I highly doubt it will be marked property of the KGC. Unless you have a map that came from a known KGC member or have found some KGC records that describe the cache, you can only speculate. I've found many things that I could claim to be KGC, but I'd have no proof of it. It would make good print for a KGC related book, which is the only way you're going to get rich dealing with the KGC.

[Old Dog]

Hi Beale,
This is the compass and Dip needle compass that I have. I don't think they get much better than this but I can't get them to react to small iron objects. I only did this to test the claim that this is what the KGC did. I don't really think they found the markers this way. I have an aluminum tripod and mount for the pocket transit which is great for measuring bearings down to the degree.

http://www.tylertool.com/brunton5008...rce=googlebase

I always use a Silva liquid filled and only one time has it given me fits.
That was when we tried to get a good compass reading and a photo at the same time.
had to have the compass about 10 inches away from a broken Boiler door that was laying on the ground,
(the needle would creep until the North end of the needle pointed to the door)

we have found that smaller items such as hay hooks, shovel heads and such needed the same distance as they are thick enough to affect a compass.
But have never been able to find a buried object using a compass.

Thom

[Texas Jay]

Here is the LA Times article where Bob Brewer reported finding $200,000 worth of the treasure. He was required to pay taxes on this money and provided photos of some of it. I don't know how anyone can offer more substantial proof of KGC recoveries than that.

***
Shadowy path may lead to treasure

Email Picture
Tom Ewart / For The Times
CODE: Bob Brewer points out arcane symbols on a tree in western
Arkansas that he believes are clues to a treasure stashed away by the
Knights of the Golden Circle, a secretive Confederate group.
A man seeking Confederate gold and his own family's hidden history
uncovers a cryptic trail that may stretch back to a secret society
and Jesse James.
By Kim Christensen, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
December 5, 2007
HATFIELD, ARK. -- Deep in the woods near Brushy Creek stands an old
beech tree, its smooth bark etched with dozens of carvings, including
biblical references, a heart and a legless horse.

Bob Brewer was 10 when his great-uncle, W.D. "Grandpa" Ashcraft,
pointed it out on a logging trip 57 years ago.


Found
click to enlarge



Map

"He said, 'Boy, you see that tree? That's a treasure tree,' " Brewer
recalled on a recent visit to the site. " 'You see that writing? If
you can figure out what that is, you'll find some gold.' "

The old man didn't elaborate, but his words stuck with Brewer through
childhood and two tours of duty in Vietnam as a Navy helicopter
crewman. So did memories of Grandpa's frequent, unexplained horseback
rides into the nearby Ouachita Mountains.

In 1977, after retiring from the Navy, Brewer returned to western
Arkansas and took up an obsessive search -- for buried treasure, and
for his family's links to a secretive, subversive Confederate group,
the Knights of the Golden Circle, or KGC.

After many years of research, he is among those who believe that the
group buried millions in ill-gotten gold across a dozen states, to
finance a second Civil War that never came to be. And he thinks
Ashcraft and his son, Odis, had something to do with it.

"I think Grandpa Ashcraft and Uncle Ode had a secret," Brewer says.

A similar theme will play out on the big screen Dec. 21, when Nicolas
Cage returns as code-breaking treasure hunter Ben Gates in "National
Treasure: Book of Secrets," a sequel to Disney's 2004 hit. Brewer is
a consultant on the film.

But although Cage's character searches for Confederate gold and his
ancestral ties to the Lincoln assassination, Brewer's journey shows,
once again, that real life can be stranger than fiction -- or at
least as intriguing.

Steeped in the history of the South and the West, his quest is
haunted by the legend of Jesse James and imbued with the mysterious
stuff of Freemasonry, coded treasure maps and conspiracy theories
dating to John Wilkes Booth.

Along the way, Brewer says, he has unearthed about $200,000 worth of
gold and silver coins. It's enough to support his modest lifestyle,
and to thumb his nose at those who might think he's just another old
coot with a metal detector.

"It's my damn story," he says, "and if they don't believe it I'm not
gonna worry about it, damn it. Pardon my French."

Brewer's life is detailed in "Shadow of the Sentinel: One Man's Quest
to Find the Hidden Treasure of the Confederacy," a book he wrote with
Warren Getler, a former Wall Street Journal reporter.

The authors say their 2003 book, reissued in paperback as "Rebel
Gold," sheds new light on the hidden history of the KGC, even as it
lays out Brewer's efforts to trace his familial connections to the
group and crack the code behind its legendary "depositories."

Having found smaller coin caches, Brewer says he's now on to "a big,
big one" in Oklahoma -- big enough to more than validate his 30-year
search.

"It was supposed to have been $2 million when it was buried," he
says. "We figure it's about 80 times that face value."

The hunt that brought Brewer to this point began in earnest after he
retired from the Navy in 1977 and started spending time at a Hatfield
coffee shop, where talk often turned to treasure-hunting. Some spoke
of "Spanish treasure signs," similar to the markings his great-uncle
had shown him.

Spaniard Hernando de Soto had explored the nearby mountains in 1541
and local legend held that he stashed gold there. Over time, Brewer
came to doubt the Spanish angle, but linked what his forebears had
told him to what he was hearing in town.

He sketched the symbols others described, tracked them down when he
could and plotted them on topographical maps. During a stint as a
state inspector of beekeepers, he explored remote areas of the forest
and found more carvings on trees and rock faces.

Many were recurring symbols: snakes, turtles, crescent moons,
crosses, numbers and letters with odd flourishes. Brewer figured they
were cryptic indicators of distance and direction, clues to buried
riches.

By mapping them, Brewer surmised that they ran along lines that might
extend for miles as part of a larger "treasure grid." Tracing the
lines with a metal detector, he says, he learned to systematically
find buried clues, one leading to the next, everything from gun
barrels to farming implements to milk can lids.

If that sounds far-fetched, it did also to some of the 400 or so
residents of Hatfield, including Brewer's wife, Linda.

"A lot of her friends, and even my own family, were telling her, 'You
better watch Bob because he's going off the deep end,' " Brewer
says. "She was beginning to believe it, too."

But Brewer persisted, and concluded that clues could be found not
only in carvings on trees but also in the trees' shape. Some appeared
to have been contorted as saplings, or had oddly grafted limbs that
caused them to grow into unusual shapes and directional pointers.

Following a line from one such "hoot owl tree," Brewer says, he found
the carved beech that Grandpa Ashcraft had shown him several decades
earlier.

He studied its symbols, "walked the lines" radiating from them and
found buried horseshoes and other clues that led to his first cache
in 1991 -- a canning jar filled with gold and silver coins from the
1800s, their $400 face value a fraction of their actual worth.

Brewer says he was "stunned" by the find, in the forest about 10
miles from his home.

"I was totally wiped out for a couple of days and couldn't sleep for
a couple of nights," he says. "I thought I had it all figured out and
I'd be rich within a week. I was a little wrong about that."

The Brewers made a video about the carved beech, dubbed the "Bible
Tree" for etchings such as "1st Thess 3:2," an apparent reference to
First Thessalonians. It was a hit at treasure-hunting shows, and
Brewer soon was trading stories and information with others who
shared his esoteric interest.

In 1993, one of them showed Brewer a book about Jesse James, with
passages about the Knights of the Golden Circle, buried Confederate
treasure and cryptic symbols.

Founded in the 1850s by George Bickley, a former Virginian living in
Cincinnati, the group was reputed to include prominent political
figures and Confederate leaders, among them Gen. Albert Pike, a high-
ranking member of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.

One of the things that led Brewer to link his family to the KGC
were "Pike" carvings he'd seen on trees. Another was Grandpa
Ashcraft's mysterious, daylong rides into the woods.

Sometimes his great-uncle told him he'd been hunting "cows," says
Brewer, who only much later learned it might have been short
for "cowan," a Masonic term of contempt for intruders. Grandpa had
shown him where one was buried amid the pines and hardwoods.

"He said the man got in here, got to messing around and putting his
nose where he shouldn't have, and got himself killed, " he says.

Eventually, Brewer concluded that Grandpa and Uncle Ode were part of
a generations-old network of "sentinels" who watched over caches of
KGC money. Much of it came from government-payroll holdups and train
robberies, according to Brewer and others who say Jesse James was a
leader and benefactor of the group.

Ceci Gillespie thinks some of the loot wound up on a chunk of
property she and her sister own in Wapanucka, Okla., about 100 miles
southeast of Oklahoma City.

"We've had at least 10 people show up with the same idea, that Jesse
James buried treasure there," Gillespie says, starting with an 87-
year-old man who greeted her with a "treasure map and his 'list of
reliable facts' " some 20 years ago.

In the mid-1990s came Brewer, teamed with an Oklahoma schoolteacher
who also had a Jesse James treasure map. In the area, they found a
jar of silver coins dated 1812 to 1880, Brewer says, but their hunt
was cut short when the sisters booted them from the property.

Brewer says the teacher doubled back without him and found another
cache of gold coins. The man might later have struck it even richer,
according to a 1995 story in the Daily Oklahoman, which said
he'd "unearthed a Wells Fargo safe full of gold coins" at an
undisclosed location.

If it was from her property, Gillespie says, she's never gotten any
of it, though she is convinced that millions in gold are still
stashed there.

Robert Smith, a University of Oklahoma law professor who has written
at length about Jesse James and other American outlaws, dismisses
stories of huge treasure troves.

"I know very little about the Knights of the Golden Circle or whether
such an organization even existed," he says. "But my own feeling is
this stuff about buried gold, as far as Jesse James is concerned, is
nonsense."

James M. McPherson, a Pulitzer Prize-winning Civil War historian and
a professor emeritus at Princeton University, has his own doubts
about the group's reach.

"There certainly was an organization called the Knights of the Golden
Circle," McPherson allows, noting the group sought to spread slavery
by annexing territory in Mexico and the Caribbean in the years before
the Civil War.

But once the war began, "the story becomes pretty shadowy," he says.

"My guess is that as the war went on, its reality kind of shaded over
into myth," he says.

Brewer's co-author Getler, who met Brewer in 1998 and spent five
years with him in the field and on a lengthy paper chase, counters
that "we dug a lot deeper" into the group than anyone before.

"The Knights of the Golden Circle were a much more powerful
organization than history gives credit to," Getler says.

At the National Archives in Washington, he and Brewer scoured files
and rare-book collections, finding the personal prayer book of KGC
founder Bickley, who in 1863 was arrested as a spy but never charged,
and died in 1867. Inside the book was a hand-written key to the
group's code.

The pair interviewed descendants of members, searched the Library of
Congress for relevant writings and pored over the archives of the
Pinkerton detective agency, which had pursued James. Their search of
an online database yielded illuminating articles from newspapers,
magazines and journals dating to the 1800s, and at Georgetown
University Library they found works on Booth.

They concluded Booth was either a KGC member or was helped by the
group while on the run after shooting President Lincoln at Ford's
Theater on April 14, 1865.

"No one can be sure," Getler says, "but we are pretty confident that
the KGC, the most powerful subversive group that ever existed in the
United States, was very involved in the assassination of Lincoln."

He's also confident that Brewer is on to something very real.

"This is not crop circles," he says.

Brewer's quest has taken him from Arkansas to Georgia to Arizona and
back to Oklahoma, where he and two partners have zeroed in on a site
more than 100 miles from the Gillespies' land.

Like other treasure hunters, they are cagey when discussing their
work, loath to let slip too many details about exactly where and what
they're doing.

They say the Oklahoma search got held up by summer rains and
flooding, which produced four-foot-high grass. It's crawling with
snakes and too high to work in with metal detectors, they say, and
hiring someone to mow it would draw too much attention.

Others might be watching and could beat them to the gold. Brewer is
willing to wait it out.

"We know where it's at now," he says. "All we have to do is put our
detectors over it and we'll find it."

In some areas, treasure hunting is banned by law or requires
permission from private property owners, or state and federal
agencies that oversee public lands. At the Oklahoma site, Brewer and
his partners have a contract with the owner.

"We don't ever go anywhere without permission -- period," says John
London, 63, an Amarillo, Texas, electrician and satellite dish
installer working with Brewer. "There are no ifs ands or buts about
it, and if you don't get it, the 'butt' will be yours."

Along with metal detectors, global positioning devices and laptop
computers with mapping software, London's treasure-hunting tools
include dowsing wands and an "information rod" made from an old
rabbit-ears TV antenna with a silver dollar riveted onto it.

He insists it works, but says he hasn't had to rely on it in Oklahoma.

"This is pure KGC research that has brought this stuff up," he says.

Another partner, Jim Weaver, a 63-year-old window and siding salesman
from Hutchinson, Kan., credits Brewer's "unique ability" to decipher
symbols and find clues.

"You can say it's a gift. You can say it's genetic," Weaver says. "I
don't know what it is, but Bob really has discovered something
remarkable."

He says he's seen evidence "beyond any possible shadow of a doubt" in
Oklahoma.

"If we bring this thing to the conclusion we anticipate," he
says, "it will be mind-boggling."

If he does hit it big, Brewer says, it won't change his life much. He
has all he needs: a good family, enough money to pay his bills, a
nice house on a patch of land where he can step out his front door
and shoot deer and wild turkey all day long.

Mostly, he just wants to finish his life's work.

"Sometimes I wish I had never started it," he says. "But I was always
good at puzzles and when I set my mind to doing something, I do it."


****
~Texas Jay