Sue Mundy... WHAT a GAL!

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning swr, you posted-->

"...no riding coattails please"
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Shucks almost all in here, including you, do that for information, since none were there.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[swiftsearcher]

BTW - I was shown by Bill a pic of the REAL Sue Mundy and she does resemble Jerome C. However, one can tell she is definitely a woman and not Jerome. Also, if anyone has studied the REAL Sue Mundy, they will track her down to the women's jail that collapsed.

 

[Texas Jay]

This webpage tells of Susan Munday who was in the Kansas City Jail Collapse that killed Bloody Bill Anderson's sister Josephine and crippled his youngest sister for life.

"...Arrested along with the Anderson girls were the orphaned sisters Susan Munday, Mattie (Martha) Munday and Mrs. Lou Munday Gray, their brother serving in Price's army and Mrs. Gray's husband probably a guerrilla ..."

http://penningtons.tripod.com/framesmo.htm

Our Yahoo group has more information about the Jail Collapse than any other website on the Internet.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

 

[Texas Jay]

SWR, if you have a problem with the source, I suggest you contact the person in charge of that source. What makes you think that this source is less reliable than the one you quote?
~Texas Jay

 

[Texas Jay]

Since the Kansas City Jail Collapse is of special interest to our Yahoo group members, we have all the links we could find regarding that event posted in our group's extensive Links section and have had the Partisan Rangers and Pennington pages listed for a few years now. In addition, we also have quotes from some of Quantrill's Raiders who had relatives in the prison including Cole Younger and John McCorkle in our Messages Archives. We have testimony from eyewitnesses also. None of these sources agree on everything so I simply collect everything I can find related to our work, post it, and let our members decide for themselves what they believe, what they don't, and what they are not sure of. We look at as many viewpoints as we can in order to try to determine the truth about our history.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI : Reading the plaque of the prison, it does not say who the uninjured people were, only the injured or dead?? So sue mundy (ay) could easily have been there.

Among the women detained were close relatives of prominent Partisan Rangers. These included Mary and Josephine Anderson who were sisters of Bill Anderson

Incidentally, that was in 1863, so Sue could have been hanged in1865, if that identification was correct.

Did Sue exist as a man, woman, or did sue shift between?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Swr, you posted ->

"Sue Mundy was a name fabricated '(fictional character)' by a Louisville newspaper.

Sue Munday was a 'fictitious' character

Instead of trying to rewrite history (historical revisionism) any naysaying mainstream history with wild-and-wacky claims about how Jesse James wasn’t really killed…and Bill Anderson wasn’t really killed…and 'Sue Mundy wasn’t fictitious, but a real person that evidently never was really killed' …bring something plausible that can be validated with REAL references and sources. Not just piffle and wishful thinking.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then you post -->

You guys probably have this March 26, 1865 article from the New York Times in regards to the hanging of Jerome Clark aka Sue Mundy. As you know, Clark got this alias by his feminine looks

Kinda puts a damper on the Sue Mundy at the female prison.

_+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So swr, which do you wish to prove? There was a sue that was hanged, or there was no sue??

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[swiftsearcher]

This webpage tells of Susan Munday who was in the Kansas City Jail Collapse that killed Bloody Bill Anderson's sister Josephine and crippled his youngest sister for life.

"...Arrested along with the Anderson girls were the orphaned sisters Susan Munday, Mattie (Martha) Munday and Mrs. Lou Munday Gray, their brother serving in Price's army and Mrs. Gray's husband probably a guerrilla ..."

So...now Sue Mundy is Susan Munday? Really...I don't expect a reply, just a rhetorical question. Although, I'm sure an explanation for the wrong spelling can be generated.

Also, the website you've used as a reliable reference was written by the webmaster/owner. Not exactly reliable or believable when used to support an extraordinary claim. Might you have something more scholarly like?

SWR - Just as is the case with the Swift Munday/Mundy, I have seen Sue's name spelled both ways - kinda like Quantrill and Quantrell.

 

[cccalco]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcellus_Jerome_Clarke [/quote]

Marcellus Jerome Clarke

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Marcellus Jerome Clarke
1844 – March 15, 1865

Marcellus Jerome Clarke as a Confederate soldier
Nickname Sue Mundy/Sue Munday
Place of birth Franklin, Kentucky
Place of death Louisville, Kentucky
Allegiance United States of America
Confederate States of America
Service/branch Confederate Army
Years of service 1861–1865
Rank Private
Unit Company B, 4th Kentucky Infantry
1st Kentucky "Orphan" Brigade
Marcellus Jerome Clarke (also called M. Jerome Clarke)[1](1844–March 15, 1865) was a Confederate captain who in 1864 became one of Kentucky's most famous guerrillas. He was rumored to be "Sue Mundy", a character publicized by George Prentice, editor of the Louisville Journal.

Contents

1 Confederate soldier
2 Confederate guerrilla
3 Capture and hanging
4 References
5 See also
6 External links
Confederate soldier

Marcellus Jerome Clarke was born in Franklin, Kentucky in 1844.

At the age of 17 in 1861, he enlisted as M. Jerome Clarke in the 4th Kentucky Infantry, 1st Kentucky "Orphan" Brigade, Confederate States Army (CSA). While with the 4th Kentucky, Clarke was captured at Fort Donelson and later escaped from Camp Morgan. He saw action with the 4th Kentucky at the Battle of Chickamauga.

Clarke was reassigned to Morgan's Men, the unit headed by Brig. Gen. John Hunt Morgan. By then he was a captain.[2][3] While with Morgan's Men, he took part in the famous Morgan's Raid, storming into Union territory in Kentucky and across the border into northern states of Ohio and Indiana, which was against Morgan's orders.

Confederate guerrilla

Following Morgan's death on September 4, 1864, Clarke formed his own guerrilla band, and returned to Kentucky in October. He raided throughout the state, killing Union soldiers and destroying supplies.[4] His raids seemed to inspire the Louisville Journal's stories of the infamous "Sue Mundy", and caused Major General Stephen G. Burbridge, military governor of Kentucky, substantial embarrassment. Combined with the fact that Clarke's gang (referred to by the Journal as "Mundy's Gang") had joined with William Quantrill's Raiders, Clarke was seen as a dangerous enemy of the Union. On the night of February 2, 1865, this joint force of Quantrill and Clarke rode into Lair Station, Kentucky and burned the railroad depot and freight cars. A week later on February 8, 1865, the guerrillas killed three soldiers, took four more prisoners, and destroyed the remnants of a wagon train.

Capture and hanging

On March 12, 1865, fifty Union soldiers from the 30th Wisconsin Infantry, under the command of Major Cyrus Wilson, surrounded a tobacco barn ten miles south of Brandenburg near Breckinridge County. They were to capture Clarke and his gang. Four Union soldiers were wounded in the altercation. With Clarke were Henry Medkiff and Henry C. Magruder, wounded in an earlier attack.[5]

Major Wilson escorted the three men to Brandenburg, where they boarded a steamer for Louisville. Military authorities kept Clarke's trial a secret, and the verdict had been decided the day before the trial. He pleaded to be treated as a prisoner of war but was tried as a guerrilla.[3] On March 14, military authorities planned Clarke's execution, even though the trial had not started. At the brief hearing, Clarke was said to have "stood firm and spoke with perfect composure."[6] Clarke stated that he was a regular Confederate soldier and that the crimes he was being charged with he had not committed, or they had been committed by Quantrill. During the three-hour trial, Clarke was not allowed counsel or witnesses for his defense. Three days after his capture, Union authorities scheduled Clarke for public hanging just west of the corner of 18th and Broadway in Louisville.[3]

On March 15, Rev. J.J. Talbott visited the 20-year-old Clarke in prison and notified him that he would be hanged that afternoon. Reportedly Clarke knelt and prayed, asking Talbott to baptize him. With Clarke dictating, the minister wrote four letters for him: to Clarke's aunt, his cousin, a young lady named Lashbrook, and his fiancee.[6] Clarke's last requests were for his body to be sent to his aunt and stepmother in Franklin to be buried in his Confederate uniform, next to his parents.[6]

When the carriage arrived at the gallows, Clarke gave one last statement to the crowd. He said: "I am a regular Confederate soldier-not a guer[r]illa... I have served in the Army for nearly four years... I fought under General Buckner at Fort Donelson and I belonged to General Morgan's command when I entered Kentucky."[6] His last words were "I believe in and die for the Confederate cause."[7] Several thousand people were estimated to have attended Clarke's execution, attracted by rumors that he was "Sue Mundy".[3][6] After authorities cut Clarke's body down from the scaffold, some witnesses cut off buttons from his coat as keepsakes. Police arrested three men for fighting over his hat.

On October 29, 1865, Union authorities hung Henry Magruder behind the walls of the Louisville Military Prison. He had been allowed to heal from his wounds before being hung. Before his death, Magruder wrote his memoir and declared he was the real "Sue Mundy".[8] Thus ended the careers of two famous Kentucky guerrillas.[6]

References

^ Lowell Hayes Harrison, James C. Klotter, A New History of Kentucky, Lexington, KY: University Press of Kentucky, 1997, p. 206
^ Lowell Hayes Harrison, James C. Klotter, A New History of Kentucky, Lexington, KY: University Press of Kentucky, 1997, p. 206
^ a b c d "Jerome Clarke ('Sue Mundy'), Kentucky Historical Marker Number 540" Kentucky Sue Mundy Markers. Kentucky.gov. Accessed 3 October 2006.
^ " 'Sue Mundy' Here: Kentucky Historical Marker Number 537" Kentucky Sue Mundy Markers, Kentucky.gov. Accessed 3 October 2006.
^ "Sue Mundy Captured: Kentucky Historical Marker Number 536" Kentucky Sue Mundy Markers, Kentucky.gov. Accessed 3 October 2006.
^ a b c d e f Vest, Stephen M. "Was She or Wasn't He?", Kentucky Living, November 1995, 25-26, 42.
^ " 'Sue Mundy's' Grave: Kentucky Historical Marker Number 562" Kentucky Sue Mundy Markers. Kentucky.gov. Accessed 3 October 2006.
^ Henry Magruder, Three Years In The Saddle: The Life and Confession of Henry Magruder: The Original Sue Munday, The Scourge of Kentucky, (Published by his captor Major Cyrus J. Wilson, Louisville, Kentucky, 1865)
See also

Louisville in the American Civil War
External links

Bryan S. Bush "Guerrilla Warfare in Kentucky"
Marcellus Jerome Clarke at Find a Grave
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcellus_Jerome_Clarke"
Categories: 1844 births | 1865 deaths | People from Simpson County, Kentucky | 19th-century executions by the United States | Bushwhackers | History of Louisville, Kentucky | People executed by hanging | People of Kentucky in the American Civil War | Orphan Brigade | People executed by the United States military | Executed American people

 

[Tnwoods]

What do "Frank James and Quantrill signs" look like? I have never heard of either ever being mentioned by anyone in TH'ing.

 

[Capt_Gregg]

Some of our researchers and genealogists at the Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery group have studied Sue Munday and have provided a lot of information about her. Here is a photo that one of our Moderators posted of "Sue Munday/Clarke".
~Texas Jay

That you refer to Jerome Clarke as "she" speaks volumes about your "researchers and genealogists."

 

[Tnwoods]

It is pretty standard for historical markers to list all the historically famous people connected with the event or place being marked. No where, including that marker, have I ever seen Sue Mundy being listed as a person involved in the collapse of that building.

Deciding things happened because you can't find any historical information that says whatever you believe did not happen is not doing research. It is writing fantasy stories.

Anyone with a screwy idea can start a web page, or a study group, a blog, or a discussion board for that matter.

i would stick to source material from the time period, or compiled from time period writings rather than random blogs and websites.

But then I am not trying to rewrite history. I just want to have an accurate picture of what really happened.

 

[Tnwoods]

Reality comes a-knocking, again.

Confederate guerrilla Sue Mundy: a biography of Kentucky soldier Jerome Clarke
By Thomas Shelby Watson, James M. Prichard,

http://books.google.com/books?id=ay...&resnum=2&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[Tnwoods]

"The most repeated story about Jerome Clarke dressing up as a woman is the fictitious account of him trying to "fool" Morgan, mentioned earlier.........introduced as "Miss Sue Mundy"...........

Morgan died Sept 5 1864
Prentice did not create the character Sue Mundy until Oct 11 1864

Page 194 i believe.

 

[Capt_Gregg]

tnwoods,

It is pretty standard for historical markers to list all the historically famous people connected with the event or place being marked. No where, including that marker, have I ever seen Sue Mundy being listed as a person involved in the collapse of that building.

Deciding things happened because you can't find any historical information that says whatever you believe did not happen is not doing research. It is writing fantasy stories.

Anyone with a screwy idea can start a web page, or a study group, a blog, or a discussion board for that matter.

i would stick to source material from the time period, or compiled from time period writings rather than random blogs and websites.

But then I am not trying to rewrite history. I just want to have an accurate picture of what really happened.

According to the Kansas City newspapers of the time, a Susan Mundy suffered an injured back in the prison collapse. She eventually married a man who, if I remember correctly, was named Womack. She died in the 1920s.

 

[tfstew1]

I was looking this morning at the website below. Most of the symbols pictured on the page below (link provided) were found at my site. I was taking some pics of one of Swift's mines I had found and the landmarks and noticed a hidden cave (only viewable from one of Swift's mines). The cave is where I found names carved, numerous signs and other things. To make a long story short, I was able to decipher the signs and find the vault (with help from other markers I found by following the original signs at the cave mentioned). Finding the vault was the easy part however! The hard part has been obtaining entry!

Again, most of the signs pictured on this website I found at my site as well.

Home

I know the Story of the Real Sue Mundy is true. Sue Mundy as told to me by my Grandmother (Mundy)
was her Mom's or Grandmothers Cousin. My Grandmother was born at Pocahontas, Ark. Where Sue Mundy and Brother James Mundy and The Jessie James Gang Hid out later after she had joined back up with them after the Hotel Collapse.

 

[jeff of pa]

Re;[h=2]Re: Sue Mundy... NOT a GAL![/h] Jan.25, 1865





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