The Jesse James KGC Connection on History Channel

[Texas Jay]

For the Masonic account of the killing of Brown County Deputy Sheriff Charles M. Webb by John Wesley Hardin in 1874 at Comanche, Texas, go to:

"Freemasonry in Brownwood" by Donovan Duncan Tidwell, published by Department of Printing, Masonic Home and School, Ft. Worth, Texas, 1966, pages 68 & 69.

Now, TNwoods, back to my ignore list so that you can do your homework.

~Texas Jay

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery - We have much detailed information about this famous historical event transcribed in our Messages Archives here. Since Tnwoods does not give any credence to "copied and pasted" documentation, I'll let her read it for herself but not in our group.

 

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[Tnwoods]

She is a he, Texas Jay - assumptions, assumptions.

Do you have a link where this great historical document is posted? I looked it up and I am not spending $30 on it. Franky it isn't worth it to me.

I am still wondering about the Henry Ford connection, but I guess that is also in this same book.

If it proved you case, then I would think you would post the appropriate passages from it to shut me down. Unless your afraid that I might check the info for historical accuracy, and dispute it too.

I'm not trying to pick on you, I check all information that looks relevant for historical accuracy, because if it isn't correct, I don't want to waste any more time following it as a lead. Saves on a lot of gas money and wasted time.

I thought I was already on your ignore list?

 

[Tnwoods]

Since Tnwoods does not give any credence to "copied and pasted" documentation,


No body should believe copy and pasted info. One should look for the source, but then, that is only if one is looking for the truth.

 

[Tnwoods]

No worries, I am being ignored

You know in my search I found another book with the same story, using your Brownwood Mason book as a source. I would bet if we looked in the back of your Brownwood book, it would list the novel as it's source as well, or something that would lead to it eventually. Since a nearly identical tale pops up everywhere.

But since you are ignoring me, I am convinced that you will not look in the back of the book and see what the source material is. Because to do so you would have to read this post. Of course if by chance you do look in the back, I would sure be interested.

Cheers

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

http://www.cemeteries-of-tx.com/Wtx/ElPaso/cemetery/Concordia.html

 

[Tnwoods]

Hello - that is the readers digest version from the 1935 novel. I know this happens a whole lot with outlaws and their legends. A lot of stories from novels over time have become the "historical" fact. And it makes it even harded to get to the truth or any given outlwa one might be looking up.

I still hold the Sheriff report from Webb's death would is probably the most accurate, as it was written from their records. It does not list Hardin as the suspect, and in fact says the Rangers killed the suspect in Pencecola. Not that they arrested him in 1977 for it, like the tale goes.

When a story is almost word for word in every version, it usually came for a single source. If anyone knows of a pre 1935 source I would very much appreciate it. Old newspaper maybe? Shooting a sheriff would have been big news at the time.

 

[Tnwoods]

Don't worry Texas jay, I'm doing the work for you on this one

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9904E5DA1F3BE532A2575BC2A96E9C946690D7CF

You Mr Webb according to this was shot by Hardin.

Which makes me ask why the Sheriff report says the shooter was killed by the Rangers, which Hardin was not, and don't mention Hardn as the culprit.

See, that is all you had to do.

I still have doubts due to the discrepancies, between the paper and the Sheriff's, but I'll give you that point

See how reasonable I am, you can take me off ignore now.

But I am still curious about your Henrey Ford. How is he KGC?

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

You have a problem with the newspapers - because different newpapers of the times STILL have different stories. Some say Selman (a constable, by the way, not a sheriff), outdrew him, some say he came up behind him and shot him. Same time period newspapers, different stories.

So, which version do you want to believe?

B

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

The archives have a few things, too.


http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=1346

B

 

[Tnwoods]

LOL - yes I know - them old papers get a lot of things mixed up, get names mixed up - but it is still the closest to the source as you can usually get. That is why I am still not 100% convinced, but am conceding the point none the less. I have read some crazy stuff from back then that turned out to be a total fabrication in a local paper, yet got picked up by the Times. But I am not that interested in Brownwood, so I don't forsee me looking into it any more.

Some say Selman (a constable, by the way, not a sheriff), outdrew him, some say he came up behind him and shot him. Same time period newspapers, different stories.

I'm betting he shot him in the back - but that doesn't make your constable look very heroic.

What I can't figure is how this young Sheriff Webb, what 21 at death, factors into the KGC, nor this Henry Ford of Brownwood. Neither of them have come up in anything I've seen anywhere outside of Texas Jay's posts.

Maybe Texas Jay will take my off his ignore list long enough to enlighten me. Study I will!

 

[cccalco]

For anyone who has not seen this or would like to see it again this program is going to be rebroadcast on the History Channel on Wednesday, November 25 at 8am and 2pm est.

Jesse James' Hidden Treasure
"By the time Jesse James was killed in 1882, he'd stolen over a million and a
half dollars according to some estimates--gold, coins and cash that could be
worth over $50 million today. History often paints James as a clever outlaw who
stole money to finance a lavish criminal lifestyle, a man whose sixteen year
long crime spree came to a dramatic halt in 1882 when a fellow gang member
betrayed him and shot him dead in the back of the head. But now, a treasure hunt
may reveal a totally new story. Was Jesse really stealing for himself, or was he
actually secreting away large sums of wealth, in order to finance one of the
most clandestine secret societies in American history? Follow a team of treasure
hunters searching for where he stashed his riches... and a new truth about Jesse
James. Their discoveries may not only re-write the history of why Jesse stole,
it could also raise new questions about his death."
Rating: TVPG
Running Time: 120 minutes
http://www.history.com/

Wednesday, November 25 08:00 AM
Wednesday, November 25 02:00 PM


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Knights_of_the_Golden_Circle/

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

For those who haven't seen it - and want to - I suggest you record it.

This way, you can go back and watch the "little" things in the film - the "we assume" and the "it has to be's", because the film does have its share of "assumptions" - of course, there has to be some assumptions, since we, nor the people who made the film, were not there at the time Old Jesse
was living his life.

History is really sooooo interesting.


B

 

[cccalco]

Interview with J. Frank Dalton
Link to site:
http://knights-of-the-golden-circle.podomatic.com/entry/2009-12-07T17_24_32-08_00

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Knights_of_the_Golden_Circle