History Channel Story On Jesse James, KGC, And Found Coins

[BoggyBottomJay]

A real treasure find will be finding my tv remote to turn it to any channel BUT the history channel today,Wednesday, February 17 @ 2:00 PM Eastern.

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[MalteseFalcon]

Good lord!

I just happened on a used book in a bookstore in Nashville the other day about this....Rebel Gold by Bob Brewer and Warren Getler.
Figured this would be the place to read about this interesting subject.
Found out I should not bother, due to 90% of these threads being nothing more than people arguing about it.

Oh well. Life goes on.

[alec]

Some of it is arguing and some of it is a good discussion. You have to take what you want out of it and make up your own mind. That's the whole reason for the discussion. Treasure hunting is far from an exact science, most of it is gut instinct based on a certain amount of real knowledge.

You never know, you might enjoy Brewer's book, even though you won't learn a lot useful information from it.

[Texas Jay]

Good lord!

I just happened on a used book in a bookstore in Nashville the other day about this....Rebel Gold by Bob Brewer and Warren Getler.
Figured this would be the place to read about this interesting subject.
Found out I should not bother, due to 90% of these threads being nothing more than people arguing about it.

Oh well. Life goes on.

MalteseFalcon: By all means, read this book. I assure you that it will not be a waste of your time. Like Alec said, we must all make up our own minds and form our own opinions about it but, first, one has to read it. When you do, I suggest you thoroughly read the excellent and extensive bibliography at the back of the book.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

[okietreasurehunter]

Just take the parts of the book that cover the "wolf" map, along with the other maps, with a grain of salt. There's plenty of incorrect or misleading information about them.

[Hoss KGC]

Just take the parts of the book that cover the "wolf" map, along with the other maps, with a grain of salt. There's plenty of incorrect or misleading information about them.

So, Okie and Alex, do you have the insert for the copper map? I never hear anybody talk about the insert. Can't be decoded without it. Hadn't see it or heard anyone talk about it on the forums. Wasn't mentioned in Bob's book. I've seen it.
Big Hoss

[alec]

Sorry there Big Hoss but there is no "insert" to the copper map. It is a stand alone map and was found that way. If someone has shown you an "insert" for the map then they have made it up themselves or taken it from somewhere else. You'd be better off trying to find a clean and good copy of the map itself. I would assume you are aware that the map in Brewer's book is marked up a lot, with lines that are not original to the map? There are also several details in the map that don't show on most copies because they are copies of copies of copies....... and that would include the one Brewer has in his book and the copy he received to decipher.

The details that haven't been seen by most people tell the story of the map and a lot about how to interpret it. And interpret is the word, not decode.

[okietreasurehunter]

Hoss I don't believe there was an insert to the copper map. It's a stand alone map. I can tell you that the ic, 3, hand, and other things that Bob claims are on the map are just not there.

[MalteseFalcon]

Hey guys,

Finally got some time at home to come back here.

Yes, some is argument, some is discussion. But that is the norm when dealing with stuff like this. I have been away from T-net for about a year. Pretty much previously restricted my activities to the coin-roll hunting forum, and making attaboy commentary in Today's Finds, etc.

There is a lot of good info in this thread. I had forgotten how intense "discussions" could get here.

When I posted the above, I was about 2/3 of the way through the book (Rebel Gold). Freaked me out to see TreasureNet mentioned in the last chapter, and the name Hillbilly Bob is someone I realized I had seen around here!

I found the book fascinating! For a variety of reasons. How fortunate Bob was to grow up where and when he did!

To be in the midst of such a part of our history is really something.

As usual, the area of treasure hunting is fraught with all manner of cons, scams, mistrust, jealousy, misinformation, etc.
But I know I am preaching to the choir here, lol.

One reason it sort of freaked me out also is the connection I have to the KGC, though it is VERY remote.

I read the stuff about Albert Pike with great interest, as he was a commander of Indian forces at the Battle Of Pea Ridge.

I do have a vested interest in the Civil War, and in Arkansas in particular, as I too have an unsolved mystery in my family involving the Civil War in Arkansas, but unfortunately it does not involve cast-iron cauldrons of gold buried in the woods, lol.

My 3X-Great-Grandfather was killed at the Battle of Pea Ridge fighting for the South. The problem is that there is no record of him in any muster roll anywhere. He joined a unit in the vicinity of Lincoln County, AR (just south of Pine Bluff), and according to one of my dad's great aunts (whom he asked about this in the late 50's/early 60's) he was killed at that battle. My Dad has tried to find out what happened to him since the late 50's, without success, and I took up the effort to a small degree with the advent of the internet and the slow publishing of records and info on the net ever since. For all I know, my ancestor may never have seen battle, as the logistical planning for Elkhorn Tavern/Pea Ridge was terrible, and many Confederate soldiers died from illness before the battle even began. My ancestor had 4 brothers, one of whom was killed at Shiloh fighting for the South, and another was wounded at Chickamauga and died from his injuries a couple of years later, another was drafted or joined the Union forces in 1863, and the last one escaped serving altogether, and went to Kansas for the duration of the war.
I was even born in Fayetteville, though I grew up elsewhere.

It is a fascinating subject. I drive by the street where Frank James lived in Nashville every day going to and from work, and I know the exact street where Jesse lived...this would have been when they were working at the barrel factory here. And yes, I saw the show on History Channel recently, which again, was fascinating, as the KGC is something not known to the general public. Not like those of us interested in TH'ing, anyway.

I live out in the country, but have never seen any KGC treasure signs.

As far as what in the book is real, and what is not, I am actually not too concerned with worrying about that. Some people will not believe anything about Bob's story. Others will believe it all. As I am not hunting for KGC treasure, it is not necessary for the info I read on this subject to be accurate. Aside from that, if I were writing a book like that, I would deliberately be vague on a lot of stuff anyway.
If nothing else, claiming to have found a treasure can attract attention from the Infernal Revenooer Disservice.

It is enough for me to know the KGC WAS real, and they DID hide caches. If they had not, none would have been found by people following clues left by them.

I will check into some of the the books you guys mentioned in this thread. Though right now I have a pile of books I am trying to get through first (used bookstore opened in the past couple of years, and I buy several each week, but take a month or more to read one, so I am way behind, lol).

Thanks for the posts and comments.

Now, get back to "discussing".

[jeff of pa]

published July 28. 1864

THE CONSPIRACY.;
PROPOSED NORTHWESTERN CONFEDERACY
The Order of "American Knights."
SECRET DOINGS OF NORTHEIM TRAITORS.
The Name of Vallandigham and Many Others
Connected with the Affair.
The "Order of American Knights."
Large Arrival of Prisoners.
Guerrillas in Kentucky.
Welland Canal Navigation Suspended.
Weather at St. Johns, N.F.


ST. LOUIS, Thursday, July 28.

The Democrat publishes a long account of the conspiracy
for the erection of a Northwestern Confederacy,
reported a few days since. The organization
engaged in this conspiracy to known as the
"Order of American Knights,"
and its real object is
to embarrass the Government
in the conduct of the war,
and to overthrow the Government,
if necessary for the supremacy of the Order.
Its professions and purposes are different in
different States,
proclaiming a war policy in New-York,
Pennsylvania, New-Jersey and other Eastern States,
while in the West it is for peace.
The Order is of Southern origin,
being erected on the ruins of the
Knights of the Golden Circle.
The rebel Gen. STERLING PRICE
is Supreme Commander. VALLANDIGHAM,
while in Richmond, was made Supreme
Commander of the Northern section, and a
conspiracy was entered into between him
and the rebel authorities to divide the East
and West, thus to aid the Southern rebellion.
VALLANDIGHAM's time in Canada was
principally spent in furthering this scheme.
He had a conference with some of the
leading spirits in the North soon after his
arrival in Canada, and arranged for the
establishment of the Order throughout
the loyal States. The names of all who
visited him at the Clifton House are
known to the Government,
among whom were WM.B. REED,
of Philadelphia; PENDLETON and
PUGH, of Ohio KRIBBEN, of St. Louis,
and STOREY and MERRICK, of Chicago,
are published. The result of this
conference was also known to the
Government about the 1st of January.

Mr. VALLANDIGHAM
issued an address to the Lodges
in the loyal States, in which he
calls upon the members to renew their vows.
He says the time is fast approaching
which will test their sincerity.
He declares that the prosecution
of the war is a violation of the rights
of the States, and that
President LINCOLN
is a tyrant and usurper:

A meeting of the Grand Commanders
of the different States was held in the
City of New-York, on the 22d day
of February, for the purpose
of organizing an out-break on
the 10th of March, the day fixed
for the draft to take place
, but no definite plan was agreed upon.

The names of these conspirators are also known.

The Commanders had a
conversation with the Supreme
Commander at Windsor, Canada,
early in April, for general consultation.

Among those in attendance at this conference
were the Grand Commander in New-York;
CHARLES L. HUNT, of St. Louis,
and LAFAYETTE DEALIN, of Indiana.

The programme adopted at this
meeting was that Mr. VALLANDIGHAM
should represent his district in Ohio
in the National Democratic Convention
to be held in the City of Chicago.

Mr. VALLANDIGHAM, in the National
Democratic Convention,
was to proclaim the doctrines of the
Order of the American Knights, namely:

Pronounce the existing Administration
of the Government a power usurped,
which the people had a right to expel
by force if necessary -- in fact,
to inaugurate a rebellion in the North,
in which he was to be supported by the Order.

Each Grand Commander was to have fully armed
and equipped a Body Guard at the National Convention
in Chicago for the defence of Mr. VALLANDIGHAM.

This, it was thought, would precipitate
the people of the free States into an
armed conflict, which was to be the
signal for the Knights of the American Order
to unite against the lawful authorities,
and kill or capture the civil and military authorities.

The Knights were then to seize the arsenals,
arms and public property of all kinds,
and proclaim the Government overthrown.

There is most convincing evidence
of the truthfulness of this statement.

The reason of Mr. VALLANDIGHAM's
sudden return to Ohio was the fear
of his being defeated as a delegate
to the National Democratic Convention
to be held at Chicago,
and it was only by his presence
in the State that his election as a delegate
was secured.

The numerical strength of
the Knights of the American Order is over half a million.

One hundred and fifty thousand
of this number are armed and organized.

The order in New-York is called the
"MCCLELLAN Minute Men," numbering over
two hundred thousand men.

The Grand Commander in Missouri is
CHARLES L. HUNT, a nephew of JAMES H. LUCAS,
and for many years the Belgian Consul.

The Deputy Grand Commander in this city
is CHARLES E. DUNN.

An officer in St. Louis has a long
list of the names of the members of the Order,
together with all information concerning the whole scheme.

The whole affair has been thoroughly
brought to light, and the proof of it is
in the hands of the authorities at Washington,
and will be given to the public at the proper time.

ST. LOUIS, Thursday, July 28.

The statements contained in the dispatch of this morning,
concerning the existence and purposes of the
"Order of American Knights,"
are based upon very voluminous testimony,
taken during several months past by the
Provost-Marshal-General of the Department of Missouri.

LOUISVILLE, Thursday, July 28.

One thousand and twenty-five rebel prisoners,
including sixty-four commissioned officers,
arrived at Nashville this morning.
They were captured near Atlanta,
in the battles from the 19th to the 22d instant,
and comprise troops from nearly all the Southern States.
Among the officers are a Colonel,
a Lieutenant-Colonel and a Major.
The balance are subordinate officers.

CLARKSVILLE, Tenn., Thursday, July 28.

Parties of rebel cavalry are crossing
the Cumberland and making their
way into Kentucky. Yesterday 125
crossed a few miles above here, under
Col. JOHNSON. Another smaller party
crossed below here. They were all armed
and mounted, and had regular officers.

THOROLD, C.W., Thursday, July 28.

About 2 o'clock this morning, a propeller,
bound up the Welland Canal,
carried away four gates of Lock No. 21.
The water drove her against Lock No. 20,
breaking one of its gates.
The steamer Moffat, leaving Lock No. 22
at the time, broke her back in the mitre.
It will take at least three days to repair the damages.

ST. JOHNS, N.F., Thursday, July 28 -- 10 A.M.

Weather fine and clear. Wind West. Thermometer 65


there are many articles here

http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...=30&submit.y=9

[alec]

I have to go with SWR again on this one. Nobody is saying the KGC didn't exist but in all of the articles posted or even found by anyone there isn't a single one that says anything about any buried treasures left behind by the group, especially mega bucks depositories.

You can search the newspaper archives for treasure stories from the same time period and forward and you will find hundreds of stories dealing with everyone from the French to the Spanish to the outlaws, the Indians and more but none pertain to the KGC. The first time any news story ever said anything about the alleged KGC treasures was in the 1970s when the author of the black book, a newspaper reporter himself, did a story about the KGC after talking to Orvus Howk. This brings us back to the very first mention ever of KGC mega bucks and it came from Orvus Howk, a con man and liar.

[MalteseFalcon]

Ok whatever.

[Hoss KGC]

Nobody here is denying the existence of the Knights of the Golden Circle.

I am...

[dragon6banger]

my problem with the show was the lack of excitement when they pulled out the cache of coins, the the gold bar. come on i don't care how long you have been detecting/treasure hunting you get excited when you pull relics from the ground that prove you right. then they think they have found a vault come on when the show went off they said it was only 8 foot to go, I've got friends that have dug out more than that in a few hours with just shovels and if your that close your not gonna just stop!!that's just my two cents

[jeff of pa]

Yep after seeing the Whole show.

They Ran out of Money while Digging so they Stopped ?

Very Poor attitudes

[dragon6banger]

that's what i am saying i know they could have just stopped for that episode so they could have another.But i would not have stopped i would have had the trucks parked around that hole with lights on and shovels throwing down. hell that would be a find of a life time and also prove to everyone some of us do know what we are talking about.

[okietreasurehunter]

I think they were just fishing for more investors. Once you take a good look at the show there are way too many things wrong with the situation.

[jeff of pa]

Well I Know one thing,
If I was an investor & Heard them say
We got a Signal but we won't dig now.
We'll come back later & Dig it up

I'd talk to a Lawyer.

[hellhoot]

I watched it and tbh i think it was a ton of crap those coins they suposedly dug up were in a bit too good of shape looked like the came out of a store. More then likely they didnt want to look like tools on TV and tossed them in after the hole was part way dug.

[cccalco]

George Noory interviewed Ron Pastore August of last year on "Coast to Coast AM". The topic of the discussion was Jesse James and his alledged connection with the Knights of the Golden Circle and stolen treasure hidden to fund the second "Civil War".


The excerpted broadcast featuring this discussion can be heard on these videos on YouTube:


Coast To Coast AM - 8.2.2011 - 1-12



Coast To Coast AM - 8.2.2011 2-12



Coast To Coast AM - 8.2.2011 - 3-12