Question about the K.G.C.

[YumaMarc]

First I want to say I have very little knowledge of the K.G.C., so I don't want to get into the mysticism or ties to Masons or other "secret societies". My question is:

Considering the statements of some here that the goal, or at least the facade, of the K.G.C. was to continue the Confederacy and to maintain and extend slavery, is it possible this group had ties to, or influence on the Filibusters of Latin America in the late 1850's and '60's? I have read a lot about William Walker and his somewhat successful attempts to conquer Central America. It seems his goals were, to a great degree, in agreement with the K.G.C., and the time frame was approximately the same.

Any thoughts?

 

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[Hillbilly Joe]

I dont know, but that sounds like some good reading about! I bet LC will be able to answer this!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

ACTUALLY, it ALL goes back to the "cloudy mists of time" when Arron Burr (VP "under" Prez Thomas Jefferson) wanted his OWN Empire. Look into the Burr-Jefferson Conflict.

 

[YumaMarc]

Impossible. The KGC itself is a secret society. If you talk KGC, you are automatically talking secret societies, and all that comes with it. It's like saying you want to learn about arithmetic, but you don't want to talk about addition and subtraction, and all the other 'messy' stuff that comes along with learning arithmetic.

Not at all! My original question was if you, or anyone else here, had an informed opinion as to whether the K.G.C. was a part of, or influenced by, the Filibuster movement. The answer doesn't necessarily have to delve into the inner workings of the organization. I found this excerpt from the book, Schemers and Dreamers: Filibustering in Mexico, 1848-1921 Copyright © 2002 by Joseph A. Stout, Jr,:

"The eve of the American Civil War brought one final filibustering scheme by U.S. opportunists. The organization of this effort grew out of a movement called the Knights of the Golden Circle, a pro-southern group that had as one of its far-reaching goals that of taking over Mexico and creating from it either a slave empire or an addition to the slave-holding South, thereby giving slave states the majority in the Union. In 1854 at Lexington, Kentucky, five men with grandiose ideas of pursuing such goals met and created the KGC. The primary organizer was George W. Bickley, originally of Indiana, who, with the help of a few like-minded men, determined to perpetuate slavery forever. The KGC thereafter grew slowly until the late 1850s, as the men organized clubs in southern states. They also established clubs in California and, perhaps, in Mexico.[SUP]43[/SUP] The name of the organization originated with the plan to use Havana, Cuba, as the center of a great slave empire. Around Havana the men would draw a circle that included Maryland on the north, South America on the south, and extended to the West Indies. Within this great circle they would seek to control all the cotton, tobacco, rice, sugar, and coffee grown and sent to the U.S. The exports would be the financial basis of their empire."

I do know that William Walker made his first Filibustering effort from California, first into Sonora, then to Baja, eventually being repulsed from both. He later determined that Central America would be an easier conquest, so he went on to Nicaragua, becoming the president after a short but fierce campaign. In Nicaragua Walker re-established slavery and appealed to American slave-owning southerners for recognition of "his" country, looking to eventually combine much of Latin America into the American South.

My question was/is, do you think these efforts are inter-related?

 

[L.C. BAKER]

ACTUALLY, it ALL goes back to the "cloudy mists of time" when Arron Burr (VP "under" Prez Thomas Jefferson) wanted his OWN Empire. Look into the Burr-Jefferson Conflict.

I have to disagree here. Arron Burr only tried to acquire the lands in question by paperwork, not filibustering by force. The first clue that Burr was not K.G.C. here, is the fact that he was turned in by Lewis Cass to President Thomas jefferson, for the attempted "treason". However, when William Walker took Nicaragua by force in 1853 (with K.G.C. backing) Lewis Cass was outraged when Walker was removed as president of Nicaragua. Cass threw a fit over it, and had Commandor Spalding removed for his part in landing the Marines and the subsequent removal of William Walker. This is a tell tale sign of Lewis Cass's involvement with the K.G.C.. It also helps that we have documented proof that he was in the Knights of the Golden Circle from it's earliest beginnings. "by his own hand."

L.C. Baker

 

[L.C. BAKER]

William Walker's filibusters of Baja and other places also were being backed by the same money and power. That is why President Franklin Pierce and his Secretary of war Jefferson Davis (both K.G.C.) were so quick to recognize Walker as the "President of Baja" and Nicaragua etc. There was an immense power struggle going on at that time. The K.G.C. was loosing control of the U.S. Government piece by piece.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Impossible. The KGC itself is a secret society. If you talk KGC, you are automatically talking secret societies, and all that comes with it. It's like saying you want to learn about arithmetic, but you don't want to talk about addition and subtraction, and all the other 'messy' stuff that comes along with learning arithmetic.

There is no doubt that the K.G.C. and Freemasons were quite fond of each other. It is not hard to figure out which came first. It is not like the chicken and the egg! LOL!

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/today-s-finds/367107-k-g-c-freemason-symbols-monument.html

there are many others like this that we have found to represent both organizations. It is our belief that to reach some positions in the K.G.C., it was a prerequisite to be a Freemason. just our 4 cents.

L.C. Baker

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Great Thread!

 

[Pinwheel]

Ok, My two cents. I do not want to offend anyone, but I think some of you guys will not like this post. I learned to always follow the evidence no matter if you like or not.

I think you guys are only looking at a small portion of the big picture. Albert Pike left his home out east and came to Little Rock Arkansas. Then latter to Ft. Smith Arkansas. He spent about 17 years setting up political ties in both state and Federal levels along with becoming the commissioner of Indian affairs over the Indian territories.

Albert Pike also wrote of three world wars. Kind of like he was a prophet of sorts.

The civil war was not about slavery as the masses have been led to believe. Many who have done a lot of research think it was about state rights and the federal government's invasion of those rights. But that is just what some of the politicians were led to believe.

If one wants the truth, it is easy to see that the civil war was planed by some one. Albert Pike was not the master mind, But he was a general in planning this war. The Masons out side of the USA were very much a part of the Plan. And it was decided from before the beginning that the south would loose the war. This probably had some to do with the textile industry and european needs.

The KGC is just a byproduct of the great civil war. Strings on both sides of the mason dixen lines were being pulled.
But it all played out just like it was planed.

I do not know exactly who these people are, But they control the way the world operates. They decide when a country goes to war and when they don't. They just brainwash the masses into believing their cause is noble. It is the right thing to do, and millions die for their entertainment. Albert Pike was carefully positioned years before the war broke out. After it was over he returned to D.C. Where he is buried.

Albert Pike was the only confederate officer who has a monument raised to his name in the capital. and he was dismissed from his office as general. Did you ever ask your self how that happened?

Of Course all of this is just my opinions and ramblings.

Pinwheel

 

[YumaMarc]

William Walker's filibusters of Baja and other places also were being backed by the same money and power. That is why President Franklin Pierce and his Secretary of war Jefferson Davis (both K.G.C.) were so quick to recognize Walker as the "President of Baja" and Nicaragua etc. There was an immense power struggle going on at that time. The K.G.C. was loosing control of the U.S. Government piece by piece.

For those who want to pursue the "money and power" line, look no farther than our dear ol' Cornelius Vanderbilt, one of the wealthiest men in the US at the time. There is no question that he financed Walker and probably other Filibusters, until Walker made the mistake of getting out of Vanderbilt's control, causing his erstwhile benefactor to be instrumental in bringing him down. Vanderbilt owned the Accessory Transit Company, the only shipping line serving Central America at the time. Walker's ambitions meshed very well with Vanderbilt's. Walker wanted control of Central America as a de facto slave state of the South, with plantations providing valuable agricultural and mineral products to finance the well-forseen Rebellion. Vanderbilt saw Walker's control of Nicaragua as a means of safe and dependable transport of goods from Pacific to Atlantic (and vice versa) by way of the San Juan River on the Atlantic side, across Lake Nicaragua, then a short wagon trip overland to Rivas, where they would connect again with another of Vanderbilt's ships. Vanderbilt thus envisioned in his hands the first "Panama Canal", with complete and solitary control of much of the world's shipping.

Problem was, Vanderbilt and Walker had different political ambitions. I don't know if Vanderbilt was in the K.G.C., though I doubt it. I see him merely as a rich and greedy tycoon grasping for more money. I believe there is documented evidence that Walker was, thus eventually causing a rift between the two. Vanderbilt was rolling in money, and there is a good probability that a lot of it found it's way into Walker's hands.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I have to disagree here. Arron Burr only tried to acquire the lands in question by paperwork, not filibustering by force. The first clue that Burr was not K.G.C. here, is the fact that he was turned in by Lewis Cass to President Thomas jefferson, for the attempted "treason". However, when William Walker took Nicaragua by force in 1853 (with K.G.C. backing) Lewis Cass was outraged when Walker was removed as president of Nicaragua. Cass threw a fit over it, and had Commandor Spalding removed for his part in landing the Marines and the subsequent removal of William Walker. This is a tell tale sign of Lewis Cass's involvement with the K.G.C.. It also helps that we have documented proof that he was in the Knights of the Golden Circle from it's earliest beginnings. "by his own hand." L.C. Baker

HA! NEVER said Burr was KGC...

 

[L.C. BAKER]

HA! NEVER said Burr was KGC...

Didn't mean to insinuate that you did. I was more concerned with the comparison of the Burr affair to Walker's filibusters. L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

For those who want to pursue the "money and power" line, look no farther than our dear ol' Cornelius Vanderbilt, one of the wealthiest men in the US at the time. There is no question that he financed Walker and probably other Filibusters, until Walker made the mistake of getting out of Vanderbilt's control, causing his erstwhile benefactor to be instrumental in bringing him down. Vanderbilt owned the Accessory Transit Company, the only shipping line serving Central America at the time. Walker's ambitions meshed very well with Vanderbilt's. Walker wanted control of Central America as a de facto slave state of the South, with plantations providing valuable agricultural and mineral products to finance the well-forseen Rebellion. Vanderbilt saw Walker's control of Nicaragua as a means of safe and dependable transport of goods from Pacific to Atlantic (and vice versa) by way of the San Juan River on the Atlantic side, across Lake Nicaragua, then a short wagon trip overland to Rivas, where they would connect again with another of Vanderbilt's ships. Vanderbilt thus envisioned in his hands the first "Panama Canal", with complete and solitary control of much of the world's shipping.

Problem was, Vanderbilt and Walker had different political ambitions. I don't know if Vanderbilt was in the K.G.C., though I doubt it. I see him merely as a rich and greedy tycoon grasping for more money. I believe there is documented evidence that Walker was, thus eventually causing a rift between the two. Vanderbilt was rolling in money, and there is a good probability that a lot of it found it's way into Walker's hands.

Your thinking cap is on straight, but you have to learn to read between the lines more to find the truth of it. There were many schemes within schemes no doubt about it, and what a twisted web it is. Greed was the driving force, and it came from overseas as well as a part of the mix (organization). When the South couldn't sell their cotton in the North, who was buying it? I would suggest you look into Senator (Dr.)William Gwin as well if you have the desire to learn more about the Walker affair's true meaning to the K.G.C.'s power/money struggle. Great stuff! thanks for posting it!

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Ok, My two cents. I do not want to offend anyone, but I think some of you guys will not like this post. I learned to always follow the evidence no matter if you like or not.

I think you guys are only looking at a small portion of the big picture. Albert Pike left his home out east and came to Little Rock Arkansas. Then latter to Ft. Smith Arkansas. He spent about 17 years setting up political ties in both state and Federal levels along with becoming the commissioner of Indian affairs over the Indian territories.

Albert Pike also wrote of three world wars. Kind of like he was a prophet of sorts.

The civil war was not about slavery as the masses have been led to believe. Many who have done a lot of research think it was about state rights and the federal government's invasion of those rights. But that is just what some of the politicians were led to believe.

If one wants the truth, it is easy to see that the civil war was planed by some one. Albert Pike was not the master mind, But he was a general in planning this war. The Masons out side of the USA were very much a part of the Plan. And it was decided from before the beginning that the south would loose the war. This probably had some to do with the textile industry and european needs.

The KGC is just a byproduct of the great civil war. Strings on both sides of the mason dixen lines were being pulled.
But it all played out just like it was planed.

I do not know exactly who these people are, But they control the way the world operates. They decide when a country goes to war and when they don't. They just brainwash the masses into believing their cause is noble. It is the right thing to do, and millions die for their entertainment. Albert Pike was carefully positioned years before the war broke out. After it was over he returned to D.C. Where he is buried.

Albert Pike was the only confederate officer who has a monument raised to his name in the capital. and he was dismissed from his office as general. Did you ever ask your self how that happened?

Of Course all of this is just my opinions and ramblings.

Pinwheel

The more we work this trail, the more we lean towards Albert Pike himself. I have not posted it on here, but there is celestial writing on the back of one of the pieces. That is 100% A. Pike. We just can't prove that it was his hand that made the marks.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/kgc/367077-lewis-cass-knight-golden-circle.html

 

[Rebel - KGC]

OK; what IS interesting, is that Burr's Vision for HIS Empire (for WHITE slaves-owning plantations) covered the GENERAL Spanish-speaking areas that the KGC had for WHITE slaves-owning plantations... AND! Also at the eve of the CONFEDERATE WAR... KGC had a "standing army" (1st Degree - KGC) to INVADE MEXICO! BUT! AFTER the CONFEDERATE WAR, MANY Rebels & families fled SOUTH, to Brazil, establishing MANY colonies/communities. "Google" Confederados; SPANISH-speaking REBELS !!! SOME returned to USA, VERY wealthy!

 

[L.C. BAKER]

OK; what IS interesting, is that Burr's Vision for HIS Empire (for WHITE slaves-owning plantations) covered the GENERAL Spanish-speaking areas that the KGC had for WHITE slaves-owning plantations... AND! Also at the eve of the CONFEDERATE WAR... KGC had a "standing army" (1st Degree - KGC) to INVADE MEXICO! BUT! AFTER the CONFEDERATE WAR, MANY Rebels & families fled SOUTH, to Brazil, establishing MANY colonies/communities. "Google" Confederados; SPANISH-speaking REBELS !!! SOME returned to USA, VERY wealthy!

it was for the same reasoning...greed...but it was his own. he was going to form his own kingdom, so to speak. If Lewis Cass would have been backing Burr instead of turning him in for treason to T.Jefferson....then i would agree with you Rebel.

L.C.