KGC "activities" in TX, "post"-CONFEDERATE WAR

[Rebel - KGC]

WELL! Did KGC/ex-REBS (CSA) outllaws "assist" Emperor of Mexico, Maximillian in 1867...? ALL that MEXICAN Treasury... GOLD! And FRENCH JEWELRY! CASTLE CAP, TX... "CASTLE"; CASTLE as in CASTLE - KGC...? "Google" Legend of Maximillian's GOLD

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

YEP! "Google" Maximillian's GOLD/JEWELRY at Castle Gap, TX

 

[L.C. BAKER]

I'm glad you brought this up Rebel! William M. Gwin a man that I have spoke about on several threads was involved with just what you are asking about. Gwin returned east to New York on the same ship as Edwin Vose Sumner (commander of the Union Army's Department of the Pacific) and Mikhail Bakunin - an acquaintance of Joseph Heco. Sumner organized Gwin's arrest along with two other secessionist sympathizers but President Abraham Lincoln intervened for his release. Gwin sent his wife and one of his daughters to Europe returning himself to his plantation in Mississippi. The plantation was destroyed in the war and Gwin, a daughter, and son fled to Paris. In 1864 he attempted to interest Napoleon III in a project to settle American slave-owners in Sonora, Mexico. Despite a positive response from Napoleon III, the idea was rejected by his protégé, Maximilian I, who feared that Gwin and his southerners would take Sonora for themselves. Mr. Gwin owned the biggest mother load of gold in California history! He has a very interesting burial monument too.
William M. Gwin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

William McKendree Gwin (1805 - 1885) - Find A Grave Memorial

Great thread!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I'm glad you brought this up Rebel! William M. Gwin a man that I have spoke about on several threads was involved with just what you are asking about. Gwin returned east to New York on the same ship as Edwin Vose Sumner (commander of the Union Army's Department of the Pacific) and Mikhail Bakunin - an acquaintance of Joseph Heco. Sumner organized Gwin's arrest along with two other secessionist sympathizers but President Abraham Lincoln intervened for his release. Gwin sent his wife and one of his daughters to Europe returning himself to his plantation in Mississippi. The plantation was destroyed in the war and Gwin, a daughter, and son fled to Paris. In 1864 he attempted to interest Napoleon III in a project to settle American slave-owners in Sonora, Mexico. Despite a positive response from Napoleon III, the idea was rejected by his protégé, Maximilian I, who feared that Gwin and his southerners would take Sonora for themselves. Mr. Gwin owned the biggest mother load of gold in California history! He has a very interesting burial monument too.
William M. Gwin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

William McKendree Gwin (1805 - 1885) - Find A Grave Memorial

Great thread!

GREAT & IMPORTANT info... connected to BEALE "Treasure" & CONFEDERATE WAR. Notice that WMG died in 1885... a CLUE! Beale PAPERS were/was released to the "public" in Lynchburg, Va. in 1885!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

You see, SOME REBS/families moved SOUTH to Brazil, S.A. after the "Surrender" (1865) , as CONFEDERADOS... AND! SOME came back as SPANISH-SPEAKING DESPERADOS... KGC "ACTIVISTS", who NEVER surrendered. TX was "HOT-BED"; EASY to go "back & forth" into Mexico.

 

[senior deacon]

Rebel that was a good read and very interesting. If they moved to Brazil as you state then the language of choice would be Portuguese. Even today Portuguese is the language of Brazil. Not to say that some didn't learn Spanish and there are a lot of Texans that are fluent in Spanish. Billy the Kid was bilingual and there were many gauchos (Mexican Cowboys) that worked cattle in Texas and New Mexico. No doubt that these CONFEDERADOS Rebels left and grew cotton and some even took there slaves with them. But not enough to make a difference.

The area of Texas that I live in was never part of the Mexican territory. It was and many still claim a part of France. Even thou that the Spanish, French, and Americans Lay claim to this part of the state. There were many of the Texans that were apart of the Texas Revolution and stood with Sam Houston that settled here because of grants by Houston that he may or may not have had the right to grant. There is a 20 to 30 mile strip of land that runs from Texarkana to St Augustine Co. Called no mans land. It was part of the Moderator/ Regulator war. Lots of history and you have to sift the wheat from the chaff when it comes to some of the stories. The interesting thing for me is that every little town has a Baptist Church and ether a Methodist or Presbyterian Church and a Masonic Lodge that is at least a Century or more old or older with lodge numbers below 150. Avenger ,Texas is a classic example. a bar, restaurant , meat market, gas station, Fresh fruit and vegetable stand in the summer, two churches, and a Masonic lodge. Don't blink or you will miss the whole town. Avinger, Texas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Spanish, Outlaw, Civil War, K.G.C. and even Pirate treasure tales are all over this part of the state of Texas. Fun stuff. As they say I wasn't born here but got here as fast as I could.

Senior Deacon

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Rebel that was a good read and very interesting. If they moved to Brazil as you state then the language of choice would be Portuguese. Even today Portuguese is the language of Brazil. Not to say that some didn't learn Spanish and there are a lot of Texans that are fluent in Spanish. Billy the Kid was bilingual and there were many gauchos (Mexican Cowboys) that worked cattle in Texas and New Mexico. No doubt that these CONFEDERADOS Rebels left and grew cotton and some even took there slaves with them. But not enough to make a difference.

The area of Texas that I live in was never part of the Mexican territory. It was and many still claim a part of France. Even thou that the Spanish, French, and Americans Lay claim to this part of the state. There were many of the Texans that were apart of the Texas Revolution and stood with Sam Houston that settled here because of grants by Houston that he may or may not have had the right to grant. There is a 20 to 30 mile strip of land that runs from Texarkana to St Augustine Co. Called no mans land. It was part of the Moderator/ Regulator war. Lots of history and you have to sift the wheat from the chaff when it comes to some of the stories. The interesting thing for me is that every little town has a Baptist Church and ether a Methodist or Presbyterian Church and a Masonic Lodge that is at least a Century or more old or older with lodge numbers below 150. Avenger ,Texas is a classic example. a bar, restaurant , meat market, gas station, Fresh fruit and vegetable stand in the summer, two churches, and a Masonic lodge. Don't blink or you will miss the whole town. Avinger, Texas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Spanish, Outlaw, Civil War, K.G.C. and even Pirate treasure tales are all over this part of the state of Texas. Fun stuff. As they say I wasn't born here but got here as fast as I could.

Senior Deacon

Sounds GREAT! HH! good Luck!

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Think about this for a minute or two. It is woven into the fabric of what they were creating after Civil War I. The list of names is undeniable and the money trail still remains, just like those railroad tracks!

Railroad Companies in American History - Page 3

L.C.

 

[senior deacon]

The U.P., The T & P, Burlington Northern, Milwaukee Road, A.T. & Santa Fe. Boy L.C. you just might have opened a big can of worms. Look at where they headed to after the War. Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The railroads were the key in the early days of fast travel. Not only for moving people and troops but also freight of all kinds. The thing that we need to keep in mind is what a way to make and launder money. The first railroad in Texas was started a Mile south of my home at Swanson's Landing. It was the start of the Texas and Pacific Railroad. There were many Lumber and Turpentine camps in our area and needed a way to get timber and spirits to a port. I could write half the night away to tell you all ( That's Y'all in Texan ) about the transportation system in Harrison county alone.

S.D.

 

[10claw]

The U.P., The T & P, Burlington Northern, Milwaukee Road, A.T. & Santa Fe. Boy L.C. you just might have opened a big can of worms. Look at where they headed to after the War. Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The railroads were the key in the early days of fast travel. Not only for moving people and troops but also freight of all kinds. The thing that we need to keep in mind is what a way to make and launder money. The first railroad in Texas was started a Mile south of my home at Swanson's Landing. It was the start of the Texas and Pacific Railroad. There were many Lumber and Turpentine camps in our area and needed a way to get timber and spirits to a port. I could write half the night away to tell you all ( That's Y'all in Texan ) about the transportation system in Harrison county alone.

S.D.

S.D. I live in L.A (lower Alabama) and know of about 3 different spurs that served plantations that planted citrus trees
before the big hurricanes and freeze hit, thereby killing that trade here. If I were 21 again I could walk and touch all three and be back home before dark. I feel sure there were many many more. After the aggression and looting many yankees came here and raped the h--- outta the old growth southern yellow pine. In the 50's and 60's before the paper companies finished the kill by '' harvesting '' the stumps for naval stores it was common to find stumps as big as a car hood. for those who don't know, the stumps were the heart or center of the tree which southerners call
'' fat litard ''= fat liter because it would burn so easy and fast. AND the railroads were the main transportation for that too.

 

[senior deacon]

10claw I live in deep east Texas and we still go into the old growth forest and can find fat wood or liter. I always carry a hawk with me when I go out squirrel hunting for harvesting a chunk of fat wood. As I heat my house with wood I use it to light the fire. Couple of pieces of it and the fire is going nicely. So know exactly what you are talking about.

The old railroad beds can be hard to locate. I looked for one about a month before it occurred to me that the tracks ran right on top of the road I was driving on. One part of it I still am amazed at. They took two sharp turns to take advantage of not only gravity but also the little valley and only crossing the one creek and avoiding another. The early pioneers would build roads along Indian trails. Railroads built beds and made grades to keep running when the water was high and the roads were muddy. Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

S.D.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

The U.P., The T & P, Burlington Northern, Milwaukee Road, A.T. & Santa Fe. Boy L.C. you just might have opened a big can of worms. Look at where they headed to after the War. Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The railroads were the key in the early days of fast travel. Not only for moving people and troops but also freight of all kinds. The thing that we need to keep in mind is what a way to make and launder money. The first railroad in Texas was started a Mile south of my home at Swanson's Landing. It was the start of the Texas and Pacific Railroad. There were many Lumber and Turpentine camps in our area and needed a way to get timber and spirits to a port. I could write half the night away to tell you all ( That's Y'all in Texan ) about the transportation system in Harrison county alone.

S.D.

You are spot on S.D.
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/kgc/367086-franklin-pierce-knight-golden-circle-2.html#post3648182

 

[Rebel - KGC]

10claw I live in deep east Texas and we still go into the old growth forest and can find fat wood or liter. I always carry a hawk with me when I go out squirrel hunting for harvesting a chunk of fat wood. As I heat my house with wood I use it to light the fire. Couple of pieces of it and the fire is going nicely. So know exactly what you are talking about.

The old railroad beds can be hard to locate. I looked for one about a month before it occurred to me that the tracks ran right on top of the road I was driving on. One part of it I still am amazed at. They took two sharp turns to take advantage of not only gravity but also the little valley and only crossing the one creek and avoiding another. The early pioneers would build roads along Indian trails. Railroads built beds and made grades to keep running when the water was high and the roads were muddy. Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

S.D.

OLD Railroad BEDS/TRACKS were built near rivers & BIG creeks; they needed the water...

 

[senior deacon]

Rebel the first RR in our,neighborhood was oxen drawn. It wasn't until after the war that it we got steam engines. It would be impossible not to have tracks close to water around our area. Our area is Minnesota south. There is as a small lake , stream, creek, or pond every two miles. Wood to fire the engines were never a problem. One of the reasons that Marshall, Texas had a powder mill was the amount of wood to make into charcoal. At that time in history cotton was king. More cotton was raised in this part of Texas than any where else. We had six landings on Big Cypress Bayou. Four of them had warehouses, one was a rail head, two were on direct roads to a major ports or cities, two were major suppliers of wood for steamboat trade with overnight lodging.

Here it is more of keeping the tracks dry than to need water or wood or coal. The problem persists to this day. I can't get out of my road and it will be a week before I do. I live in the middle of a swamp, water on three sides of me most of the year. Right now it is on four sides of me. My wife's family fishing camp is still under a foot of water and has been that way for a while. And we are 155 years after the war. Some things never change it is just the way it is. Don't get me wrong I love it out here. You just have to be hardy, crazy, or different to live where I do. Me I love the fishing, and hunting.

S.D.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Rebel the first RR in our,neighborhood was oxen drawn. It wasn't until after the war that it we got steam engines. It would be impossible not to have tracks close to water around our area. Our area is Minnesota south. There is as a small lake , stream, creek, or pond every two miles. Wood to fire the engines were never a problem. One of the reasons that Marshall, Texas had a powder mill was the amount of wood to make into charcoal. At that time in history cotton was king. More cotton was raised in this part of Texas than any where else. We had six landings on Big Cypress Bayou. Four of them had warehouses, one was a rail head, two were on direct roads to a major ports or cities, two were major suppliers of wood for steamboat trade with overnight lodging.

Here it is more of keeping the tracks dry than to need water or wood or coal. The problem persists to this day. I can't get out of my road and it will be a week before I do. I live in the middle of a swamp, water on three sides of me most of the year. Right now it is on four sides of me. My wife's family fishing camp is still under a foot of water and has been that way for a while. And we are 155 years after the war. Some things never change it is just the way it is. Don't get me wrong I love it out here. You just have to be hardy, crazy, or different to live where I do. Me I love the fishing, and hunting.

S.D.

HH! HF!

 

[KXMember]

Anybody familiar with Mesquite, TX?

 

[senior deacon]

Doubt that anything happen there. At that time frame of the KGC Dallas was a very small town. The population in 1860's was a little over and under a 1,000. They had a bad fire in that time frame that almost wiped out the town. I read a history on the first Methodist Church of Dallas. They were a property that was spared and the records preserved. There was a chapter that told of this terrible tragedy. The church was a used a relief center.

Most of the information that I have read regarding the K.G.C. tells that most of the activities were in deep east Texas and the old Mexican Texas in the south part of the state. If you have read some of my other post you will read that I believe that the K.G.C. was a V.F.W. for the veterans of the Texas Revolution. Along with the Masonic Lodge the K.G.C. and church was about the only diversion in town. Most of the war veterans of the revolution were given land in the south and west part of the state. A few like Sec.of the Texas Navy Robert Potter was given land on Caddo Lake. Read the history on this site Welcome To Potters Point this leads me to the conclusion that K.G.C.was where the Texas Revolution veterans were. In the south and deep east part of the state.

When you consider at that time Marshall was the third largest city in Texas. Houston and San Antonio the two bigger. Marshall at time was 3,000 people. It was one of the most important places for the confederate States. Headquarters for the trans-Mississippi, capitol of the state of Missouri, manufacturing center, transportation center. Home of Gen. Elkana Greer grand commander of the K.G.C.

Hope this helps you in understanding some of the working of the K.G.C. at that time.

S.D.

 

[KXMember]

My family started Mesquite and were KGC. 1st train depot in North Texas.

 

[senior deacon]

KXM for my own curiosity how do you know that your people where K.G.C. ? Did they leave you documents? Names on a roster? Don't doubt you and know that family oral traditions do sometimes play a part in this.

You also might be interested that at that time mesquite was considered west Texas. Do to the fact that Mesquite was founded in 1878 it would have been more or less a late comer to the railroad system. In doing some quick R & I Dallas had a depot in 1873. The T & P railroad was started in Marshall. Next Texas station Texarkana to the north. So Mesquite was most likely the first?western depot. Will look back as I think that the Mineola or Longview depot was the next one to be built. First station was the one at Swanson's Landing. Marshall was the Texas hub the offices and workshops were located in Marshall. Interesting to note that the railroad was part of the reason for the Texas Revolution and then Texas becoming a state. The southern railroad to California.

Here are two links you might enjoy reading. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesquite,_Texas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_and_Pacific_Railway

Senior Deacon

 

[KXMember]

http://www.cityofmesquite.com/201/Opal-Lawrence-Historical-Park

The house my grandfather grew up in. James Gang use to stay at our house. My grandfather was business partners with Jack Ruby and owned 7 city blocks in downtown Dallas. I spent the first 19yrs of my life in Mesq. And graduated from North Mesquite.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pdf/WH23_CE_1556.pdf

I grew up knowing all the old Dallas Cowboys, Mickey Mantle and the Mafia Families of Dallas/North Texas. My grandfather took on many names and had 15 wives, 14 at one time. My GF also held a high up gov position in LA. Lots of stories...

BTW Mesquite isn't West Texas but rather NE.