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Thread: Cole Younger and Family, Quantrills Boys and the Tombstone Tourist

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  1. #91
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    Kace

    Aug 2017
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    Metal Detecting, Relic and Artifact Hunting, Prohibition Era and Civil War Era Cache Hunting.
    Quote Originally Posted by uglymailman View Post



    Thought some of you tombstone tourist's might like this. Good luck.
    HaHa! Love It!

    Kace
    FIRST: Research The TELLER OF THE TALE With As Much Due Diligence As The TALE Itself

  2. #92
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    Jun 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kace View Post
    My Initial Post Was Not About You or Your Beliefs...You haven't shown anything but Morton, Hill, Gantt and E monuments that I've seen except for a couple WOW monuments posted just as like I have posted some.

    I don't want to argue either....But I started this thread to discuss tombstone's and their symbolism as well as discuss customs... era, area, ethnic, and religious practices at cemeteries, graves and on tombstones. It's something I've been interested in and involved with for a very long time. I love walking in the cemeteries and doing restorations on them and the monuments. I also like the Stories the stones tell and Clues they sometimes give. They are fascinating...If you remember, I suggested a documentary for you to watch awhile back that is very enlightening and historically accurate. Part of it was in Wyuka. There's some extremely informative books on the subject too from all over the country. I usually take a couple with me when I travel to other parts of the country....But I keep a lot of information on symbolism and fonts on my phone too.

    It's Really Easy with the thousands of different monuments, fonts and symbols to think it's one thing when it's another. Some members and lines of my family and friends of the family besides E's use that version of Old English Font that is Hard To Tell the correct letters if you're not use to seeing them.. You've seen that happen here when you post pics of E's monument. Someone also told you that T in that Font and the Star of Lakshmi was on their father's tombstone. They didn't call it by name but said it was identical.

    Like I said before, I used those two photos in the beginning of my post because they are familiar to those folks here that have seen them and the fonts. I have a lot more I could of used, but those were recognizable to people so I chose to use them. It had Nothing to do with you...Until after your response to my initial post...and then I did hope you stopped and thought about it...that the Font wasn't as Unique as you had initially thought and it isn't a KGC symbol when I showed you others like it in my response back to you...But I didn't Say Anything Else about what you've posted because my initial post wasn't about you. I hadn't even seen that you said that about it being KGC til I used the pic from here to put it on my post and saw you said it was Masonic and KGC Symbols. I also didn't say you didn't find something, I don't have any idea about that. I said whatever it was, it wasn't due to the Font/Symbol being KGC because of the longevity of the existence and extensive usage of it from so many families, businesses, monuments and organizations including magazines, newspapers and the gov. Past and Present.

    This forum is supposed to be to Help each other....Tombstones, Fonts, Symbols, Organization and Society Logos are things I do know quite a bit about. I'm a Taphophile and it comes with the territory. I told you that in one of our first conversations. You can take what I say in the spirit intended or not. I'd really like for you to succeed with your father. Hopefully all that I've posted and will continue to post on this topic will help folks who see something different on a tombstone know what it means....Because one thing is pretty certain and that's everyone on this forum has been in cemeteries and has probably wondered about some tombstone they saw.

    Trust Me...My telling the history and meanings of tombstone symbolism and fonts isn't because I'm taking anything from your beliefs... Nothing I've posted about this topic has ever been shown to be KGC. I've Never claimed that about what I've shown. I have shown where tombstones were used by families and communities where there were no graves due to the CW. I didn't put labels on them. I couldn't prove that as much as I'd like to be able to.

    I will be getting into 19th century society and organization logos and monuments, carvers, stone masons as well as Egyptian and Victorian Revival and Tree Stumps, WOW, CW Battlefield Cemeteries and others will be part of it. Some I already have. If what I show is against your beliefs...It's not to argue. You are free to believe whatever you want. As is everyone.

    Again...My Original Post on The Font and Symbolism Had Nothing At All To Do With You or Your Beliefs. When You responded to my posts and wanted to see more...I Showed You Everything You Asked For. That's all I can do.

    Kace


    Yer absolutely right, helping each other is what it's all about. Ye've gone out of yer way ta do just that and have been posting some very interesting information, even an old fart like me has learned a new thing or two. Wouldn't lose any sleep over some who always try ta make every thread about Them, tha rest of us know yer good intentions and appreciate all yer time and research that yer sharing.

    I am very much lookin forward ta yer upcoming posts on " ...19th century society and organization logos and monuments, carvers, stone masons as well as Egyptian and Victorian Revival and Tree Stumps, WOW, CW Battlefield Cemeteries and others...". I've found some more Misinformation floating around tha KGC forums that involves some o'those Organization Logos and plan on posting more on the Misinformation thread real soon. Maybe ye'll have something ta share here that may shed more light on that as well. I Always Appreciate Yer Help!

  3. #93
    us
    Mar 2011
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    Hi Kace. I don’t know if you can help me or not, but I was wondering if you might know what the James brothers and the Youngers were doing from February to May of 1868? Do you know what part of the country they were in or if they pulled off any robberies. Thanks for your time.
    Kace, Ol' Kentuck, Ditlihi and 1 others like this.

  4. #94
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    Kace

    Aug 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdog View Post
    Hi Kace. I don’t know if you can help me or not, but I was wondering if you might know what the James brothers and the Youngers were doing from February to May of 1868? Do you know what part of the country they were in or if they pulled off any robberies. Thanks for your time.
    Hey mdog...I've talked to someone who knows and has access to everything about JJ/FJ, Youngers, families and the gang.

    I'm waiting for a call back for more info if available, but during our conversations it came up that in the time frame you gave me they were involved in the Nimrod L. Long robbery of $12k ish on March 20, 1868 in Russellville, KY.

    I'll let you know more as soon as I hear back. It was mentioned that they could of 'possibly' been living/staying in TN at the time...Nothing definite yet though on that.

    Kace
    mdog, Ol' Kentuck, Ditlihi and 1 others like this.
    FIRST: Research The TELLER OF THE TALE With As Much Due Diligence As The TALE Itself

  5. #95
    us
    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kace View Post
    Hey mdog...I've talked to someone who knows and has access to everything about JJ/FJ, Youngers, families and the gang.

    I'm waiting for a call back for more info if available, but during our conversations it came up that in the time frame you gave me they were involved in the Nimrod L. Long robbery of $12k ish on March 20, 1868 in Russellville, KY.

    I'll let you know more as soon as I hear back. It was mentioned that they could of 'possibly' been living/staying in TN at the time...Nothing definite yet though on that.

    Kace
    Thank you, Kace.
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  6. #96
    us
    Kace

    Aug 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdog View Post
    Thank you, Kace.
    Anytime mdog.

    I feel really lucky to have these guys to go to for James/Younger info. They give Nothing out unless it can be confirmed Or authenticated.

    I'll let you know if I hear anymore from that time frame...Was that the only period you are wondering about?

    Kace
    mdog, Ditlihi, Rebel - KGC and 1 others like this.
    FIRST: Research The TELLER OF THE TALE With As Much Due Diligence As The TALE Itself

  7. #97
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    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kace View Post
    Anytime mdog.

    I feel really lucky to have these guys to go to for James/Younger info. They give Nothing out unless it can be confirmed Or authenticated.

    I'll let you know if I hear anymore from that time frame...Was that the only period you are wondering about?

    Kace
    Yes, for now. Thanks, Kace.
    Ditlihi, Rebel - KGC, Kace and 1 others like this.

  8. #98
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    Feb 2010
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    Because this thread has slowed I thought I'd jump in. In a different thread I posted about the Roscoe Gun Battle and a book or pamplet by Wilbur A. Zink. Here is the forward.

    As President of the St. Clair County (MO) Historical Society, I want to recommend this book to anyone who is interested in seeking the truth about the Pinkerton-Younger gun battle. I have been a student of St. Clair County history for a number of years and am glad to see this story told as it should be.
    I have know Wilbur A. Zink for the last several years and know that he is considered the foremost authority on the history of the Younger family. He has made number of talks on the subject and has a large collection of clippings and pictures of the Youngers. In addition, he has a complete collection of all known books on or about the Younger Brothers. I am sure this book on the subject and that the first editons will be of great value. Respectfully, James D. Attenbery, Society President

    As the book was published in 1967, I doubt deither W.A. Zink or Mr. Attenbery are still alive. I wonder if the St. Clair Co. Historical Soc. or Mr. Zink's family has his collection? Good luck.
    Last edited by uglymailman; May 21, 2019 at 08:17 PM.
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  9. #99
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    Feb 2010
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    By the Author of The Roscoe Gun Battle W.A. Zink
    The Purpose---The Author
    Every writing should have a pourpose. My pourpose is to preserve the history that might otherwise be lost in time to come. If we are to leave a heritage for our children that they will know about, then it must be recorded now.
    David Crowder was my Mother's father and John Davis was her Mothers father, so this story is in part my heritage, also. This is no doubt the reason I first became interested in the Younger family. I have made no attempt to glorify them, and yet on the other hand, I do not want to crucify them for they have had their share.
    Many writers have recorded a part of this gun battle in conjunction with thier writings of the Youngers. No one to my knowledge has covered it in detail. I have made an honest effort to do this. Wilbur A. Zink

  10. #100
    us
    Feb 2010
    1,135
    1251 times
    A Bibliography of books and pamplets on the Younger Family from the collection of W.A. Zink, Appleton City, MO.
    1. The Sotory of Cole Younger, by himself (1903)
    2. Last of the great outlaws, Homer Croy (1956)
    3.The Youngers Fight for Freedom, W.C. Bronaugh (1906)
    4. The Conversion of Cole Younger, Todd M. George (1963)
    5.Twelve years with Cole Younger, Todd M. George (1959)
    6. Younger Brothers, Carl W. Breihan (1961)
    7. Robber and Hero, George Huntington (1895)
    8.The Northfield Bank Raid, Northfield News (1933)
    9. Convict Life at the Minnesota State Prison, W.C. Heilbron (1909)
    10.Noted Guerrillas, John N. Edwards (1877)
    11. Jim Cummings book, Jim Cummings (1903)
    12. Mizzaurah, Cora L. McNeil (1898)
    13. The Rise and Fall of Jessie James, Robertus Love (1926)
    14. History of Henry and St. Clair County's (1883)
    15. Jesse James was his name, William A Settle, Jr. (1966)
    16. Cencus book of Jackson County,MO. (1850)
    17. Younger Brothers, Augustus C. Appler (1875)
    18. The Border Outlaws James W. Buel (1881)
    19. The Younger Brothers Clarence E. Ray (1880's)
    20. The Younger Brothers William Ward (1880's)
    21. Under the Black Flag Capt. Kit Dalton (cira 1915)
    22. Quantrell and his Guerrilla Bank, John P. Burch (1923)
    23. The Crittenden Memoirs, H.H. Crittenden (1936)
    24. Quantrill and the Border Wars, William E, Connelley (1910)

    25. Life of Jesse James, Carl W. Breihan (1953)
    26.Quantrell and the Civil War Guerrillas, Carl W. Breihan (1959)
    27. The day Jesse James was killed, Carl W. Breihjan (1955)
    28. Jesse James was my neighbor, Homer Croy (1944)
    29. Desperate Men, James D. Horan (1944)
    30. Jesse James, My Father, Jesse James Jr. (1906)
    31. Tales of the4 Osage River Country, Jean Graham (1929)
    32. Murder in Minnesota, Walter N. Trenerry (1962)
    33. The Palimpsest, Iowa Historical Society (Feb. 1936)
    34. Three years with Quantrell, John McCorkle & O.S. Barton (no date)
    35. Behind These Ozark Hills, Jesse L. Russell (1947)
    36. History of Jackson County (1881)
    37. Crossroads of America, Darrell Garwood (1948)
    38. Belle Starr Burton Rascoe (1941)
    39 Jesse James "The Outlaw", Henry T. Walker (1961)
    40.Jesse James and the Lost Cause, Jesse L. James (1961)
    41. Jesse James Long Charge (Northfield Robbery), William Ward (1908)
    42. A Dynasty of Western Outlaws, Paul L. Wellman (1961)
    43.History of Cass and Bates County's(1883)
    44. Missouri Day by Day, 2 Vol., Floyd Shoemaker (1942)
    45. Missouri and Missouians 5 Vol., Floyd Shoemaker (1943)
    46. Early History of Greater Kansas City, Charles P. Deatherage (1928)
    47. Bell Starr the Bandit Queen, William Yancy Shackleford (1943)
    48. Gunfighters of the Old West, William Yancy Shackleford (1943)
    49. Missouri State Historical Publications
    50. Kansas State Historical Publications
    51. An American Family, Charles Nesbit (1932)
    52. Bingham- Fighting Artist, Lew Larkin (1954)


    Sorry this is so long, I couldn't figure how to tab 2 rows. I'd bet # 12 "Mizzoura" is about the Black Lady that worked at the Roscoe,MO. Hotel. I have a reprinted copy of # 14 "History of Henry and St. Clair Co.'s. It is an interesting if sometimes boring read. It has some biography's of early settlers and early justice. I have read # 34 "Three years with Quantell" by McCorkle and would recommend it. I got it years ago through the Interlibrary system here in MO. Anyway, this list will be food for you that are really into research. I'd guess many of the listed publications will be hard to find. Good luck
    Last edited by uglymailman; May 21, 2019 at 08:20 PM.
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  11. #101

    Aug 2016
    1,196
    4763 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Awesome posts, Uglymailman! McCorkle's book is available for free download in pdf at archive.org, and maybe a couple others listed there. I will have to check. But here's a link to McCorkle's Three Years With Quantrell for those interested.


    Three Years With Quantrell

  12. #102
    us
    Kace

    Aug 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglymailman View Post
    Because this thread has slowed I thought I'd jump in. In a different thread I posted about the Roscoe Gun Battle and a book or pamplet by Wilbur A. Zink. Here is the forward.

    As President of the St. Clair County (MO) Historical Society, I want to recommend this book to anyone who is interested in seeking the truth about the Pinkerton-Younger gun battle. I have been a student of St. Clair County history for a number of years and am glad to see this story told as it should be.
    I have know Wilbur A. Zink for the last several years and know that he is considered the foremost authority on the history of the Younger family. He has made number of talks on the subject and has a large collection of clippings and pictures of the Youngers. In addition, he has a complete collection of all known books on or about the Younger Brothers. I am sure this book on the subject and that the first editons will be of great value. Respectfully, James D. Attenbery, Society President

    As the book was published in 1967, I doubt deither W.A. Zink or Mr. Attenbery are still alive. I wonder if the St. Clair Co. Historical Soc. or Mr. Zink's family has his collection? Good luck.
    Great Post Ug...I spent a couple days at the library in Osceola sometime back...At that time the St. Clair Co. Historical Society was there. I know they were talking about trying to get a vacant building in town to house everything as a stand alone research site. LOTS of Great Information and Photographs.

    I also spent time with the St. Clair Co. Historical Cemetery Society, finding, cleaning and restoring the cemeteries and logging the grave information. The great part of that one was being able to go to all the private family cemeteries. Most landowners even created right of way roads to get back to the graveyards. That 'might' be online completed now, I haven't looked lately, but there is a book for sale from that project...I don't know if it's still available, but it's Very Thorough and well worth buying. The library 'had' the information on getting it. I'm assuming they still do.

    Its Amazing and a Blessing that so many of the folks who lived in Benton, Henry, Bates, Cass, St. Clair and Jackson Counties had the foresight to keep such detailed journals, letters and records so we do have the first hand accounts of what happened. Central and SWMO were unlike any other areas of the CW...Its really unbelievable what all happened.

    Thanks for taking the time to tell the stories.

    Kace
    FIRST: Research The TELLER OF THE TALE With As Much Due Diligence As The TALE Itself

  13. #103
    us
    Feb 2010
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    1251 times
    Thought I'd give this thread a bump and see if it will jump start it again. While we wait to see if it will start again, I'll go to the DMV. Should work out about right. Good luck.
    Ol' Kentuck, Kace and Rebel - KGC like this.

  14. #104

  15. #105
    us
    Kace

    Aug 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglymailman View Post
    Thought I'd give this thread a bump and see if it will jump start it again. While we wait to see if it will start again, I'll go to the DMV. Should work out about right. Good luck.
    lol! I hope you're not still at the DMV!!

    I agree, Let's get this thread going again.

    EXCELLENT ARTICLE you posted BTW!

    Kace
    FIRST: Research The TELLER OF THE TALE With As Much Due Diligence As The TALE Itself

 

 
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