Jesse James Was One Of His Names...Black Book Discussion

[Rebel - KGC]

It all started in 1975, with the BB...?

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

NO big KGC/CSA Treasure maps before 1975...? NO Templates seen before 1975...? Hmmm...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Was it time to release the info. or was it all a JOKE...?

 

[sdcfia]

... How does a feller discern the significance of a coincidence? ...

Well, I guess his best plan is to plunge ahead and do the best he can. If a better working model surfaces, he abandons the old one and moves on.

 

[PartisanRanger]

I have a mint condition copy of the BB as well as a copy of it on CD. have read them more than once. I look forward to reading the posts on this site. Thanks Kace.

 

[sdcfia]

NO big KGC/CSA Treasure maps before 1975...? NO Templates seen before 1975...? Hmmm...

Also, lots of new "Mexicans with a map" coming to town and new rock carvings found in 1980. Timetable?

 

[Kace]

I have a mint condition copy of the BB as well as a copy of it on CD. have read them more than once. I look forward to reading the posts on this site. Thanks Kace.

I'm glad you're going to Participate in this thread and that you have the BB.

Kace

 

[Kace]

NO big KGC/CSA Treasure maps before 1975...? NO Templates seen before 1975...? Hmmm...

Someone else might know the exact year the maps surfaced. I'm not sure if any were in JJATLC or not which would of been 1961 I think.

In a nutshell;

Howk/JJ3 was involved with John James First in the 1930's. John James was fascinated with JWJ and while he was in jail he spent a year learning everything he could about JWJ then claiming to be him after he was released. He, Howk and Joe Hunter of Copper Kettle fame met, Howk got a lot of the info from him. John James died in a mental institution and Dalton took on the persona of JWJ after that. Howk had the information from John James to feed Dalton who came out to a large audience in Lawton but had claimed prior to that to be Frank Dalton, US Marshall and Jesse James earlier. I know there were others he claimed to be but these two are relevant to this story.

Court records show that John James information was the same as Dalton's.

Kace

 

[Kace]

Was it time to release the info. or was it all a JOKE...?

I'm not sure what info you're asking about? Maps? The Story? Template?

Kace

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Thing is, just because nobody that we know of has found anything using them, it doesn't mean they're bogus. It just means they don't know for sure how to use them.

I will say this much about the template and what I think about it. King Solomon never installed a backdoor to his vault, and as far as I know, the approach to it was through eight other subterranean vaults located down a long narrow passage that connected them all to his temple. One way in and one way out. I believe that these men would have similar standards if not identical. Besides that, any old guy like Joe Blow could use a template to locate a given pattern of points, and the very last thing they wanted was for that to happen.
First hand, I can say that it is much more complex than that at the top of the food chain. I would say that 99% of the K.G.C. had no idea a large vault even existed. I believe 100% of the building digging and laying of the big one was done by slaves (Negroe and Indian) who are still there watching over it to keep it safe.

L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

NO big KGC/CSA Treasure maps before 1975...? NO Templates seen before 1975...? Hmmm...

The first lead map was dug up in 1972 and no template was used then or has been used to locate the other pieces and maps that we have found.

BUT that is just us. L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

I have a mint condition copy of the BB as well as a copy of it on CD. have read them more than once. I look forward to reading the posts on this site. Thanks Kace.

To get us back on track would you care to tell us what you learned from it or anything that aroused your suspicions about it? Have you gained anything that you believe you could use in the field?

Welcome to Tnet
L.C.

 

[sdcfia]

I will say this much about the template and what I think about it. King Solomon never installed a backdoor to his vault, and as far as I know, the approach to it was through eight other subterranean vaults located down a long narrow passage that connected them all to his temple. One way in and one way out. I believe that these men would have similar standards if not identical. Besides that, any old guy like Joe Blow could use a template to locate a given pattern of points, and the very last thing they wanted was for that to happen.
First hand, I can say that it is much more complex than that at the top of the food chain. I would say that 99% of the K.G.C. had no idea a large vault even existed. I believe 100% of the building digging and laying of the big one was done by slaves (Negroe and Indian) who are still there watching over it to keep it safe.

L.C.

One of the surprises for me in the BB was the KGC's apparent strong relationships with African Americans and Native Americans. The blacks as seemingly important-level field operatives and the tribes in some sort of alliances in specific regions of the country. I don't see either group in any sort of slave role. If this idea is true, learning how the blacks and natives were recruited and motivated would be interesting to know.

Regarding the work needed for the alleged caches, I think the hard jobs were likely done by all sorts of folks who had no idea what they truly were working on - underground mines, public works projects, etc. When the time came for hiding the money, I believe that crew was higher-level, well-paid and well-threatened to keep quiet. There may well be some level of monitoring of sites (the Utes come to mind), but I think any threat from "Sentinels" is greatly exaggerated.

Joe Blow is a "Useful Idiot" in the classic Lenin sense, IMO. Targeted in many cases because he's vulnerable to "treasure tales" (Mexican with a map), observant enough to find the "signs" (carvings, templates, altered terrain, gravestone messages, etc), persistent enough to doggedly chase the legend, establishing an "awareness of treasure" in a certain vicinity. This keeps the new searchers circling the wrong area for years, thus adding security for the alleged prize. Every 40 or 50 years, a new Joe Blow is found.

These ideas are speculations on my part.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I'm not sure what info you're asking about? Maps? The Story? Template?

Kace

Nah, info from BB.

 

[Kace]

Nah, info from BB.

Just keeping with where we are in the book...

There are statements in the BB from JJ3 that Can be verified as truthful.. like T.T. Crittenden Was a Governor of Missouri.
On the other hand TTC was considerably Older than JWJ (15yrs) making it Highly Unlikely they were schoolmates as claimed in the book. Unless JWJ was extremely fast and TTC was extremely slow. JK!
JJ3 also said those two went to school together in Kentucky. We know that didn't happen either.
So on that topic JJ3 is 1 out of 3 on the truth scale.

Another real,well known person that JJ3 talkes about in the book that has been shown factually to have been with JWJ and AFJ was Cole Younger...But it would of been Absolutely Impossible for CY to be JWJ's Brother In Law as JJ3 claimed and as UMM pointed out due to his age it was not possible for him to be a Civil Engineer as JJ3 claimed.
JJ3 is 1 for 3 again.

This Is A Story, like Forrest Gump that I believe will show that Yes there are things that Really Happened and People That Really Existed and what this thread hopefully will do is separate the facts from fiction and everyone reading it since we are using official records researching the claims will know that just because it's been repeated in many books that followed doesn't make it true. Or in some cases might confirm the claims.

You'll know that next book you're reading or getting ready to buy about this stuff is either just a fun read or this author really knows their history.

I don't think there's anything at all wrong with fun reads, what I think is wrong is we all like certain subjects and tend to gravitate towards them in our reading and research material....We all like reading about Jesse James and then in this case throw KGC treasure in with him and on here we all like a good treasure story... and then other authors repeat the same stuff, only different wording...its natural to think...hey if the last two books said this too...It's gotta be true and the lies perpetuate to the point nobody even questions them.

What ends up happening is the reader has spent between $15-$50 on a book probably thinking they are reading factual information when it's not. I Personally Do Not Want To Pay To Read Lies...I can do that for free. I Want To Pay Someone Who Wrote A Book For Their Time They Took To Do Factual Research and Put It In Book Format.

Charlie Bigelow and John Trammell are perfect examples of No Author even questioning their existence as Real People involved in JWJ's life because those characters in the story have been repeated so much.

I jumped ahead a bit there, but when we get to that part you'll see according to JJ3....John Trammell wasn't even his name.

Kace

 

[Rebel - KGC]

YOU can prove that Charlie Bigelow was "made up"...?

 

[Kace]

YOU can prove that Charlie Bigelow was "made up"...?

What Anyone Who Researches Records Can Prove, Is.. He Did Not Exist In Missouri or Anywhere Else During That Time Period and +/- 5 years of The Age The Guy Would Of Had To Be By Using Records. Residents of Bigelow, MO laugh at the story and believe me, they could use the tourism $$$ from saying that family existed and the village was named after them. When you go back Prior to the shooting in St Joe With records...He Doesn't Exist.

Is there a reason You seem to be insistent on Bigelows existence? If there is, please tell the reason. There's been at least 4 researchers that I can think of off the top of my head who use official records that for over a year now that have told you that Charlie Bigelow did not exist, but every time he comes up you say the same things. I'd really like to know why.

Just a suggestion, You could sign up with Ancestry for a 14day FREE Trial and Get The Full Access Package. You'll get military including the civil war, newspapers, vital records and all immigration and census records plus family genealogy access and the gen forums associated with Ancestry. After the time expires and we get to another part you might want it, have Mrs Reb sign up for another 14 day Free Trial. You would be able to really do research on everything you like about historical events and people and feel confident with 3-4 sources on accuracy. It's very easy to use, I think you'd like it.

Kace

 

[Rebel - KGC]

No on Ancestry web-site; I am satisfied with my R & I in TEXAS. Don't give a rat's ass about Missouri folks.

 

[Kace]

No on Ancestry web-site; I am satisfied with my R & I in TEXAS. Don't give a rat's ass about Missouri folks.

I'm not sure where to go with that contribution to the discussion....Jesse James at this time in the book isn't in Texas...And I'll Alert The Missouri Media.

JJ3 next says JWJ was wounded in the shooting in St Joe and his brother Dr Sylvester Franklin James patched him up.

JJ3 also says that Jesse Robert (Dingus) James is laid up at the Ranch in Nebraska from a broken leg.

JJ3 says JWJ sent Bob Ford to the St Joe Sheriffs office to say "I just shot Jesse James".
And he Sent Trammell and Uncle Bud Dalton to get his Aunt Zerelda Cole James Samuels. At the same time in the book, (I'm guessing by accident) JJ3 says JWJ and Bud Dalton are in the house talking to Zerelda Bigelow, Charlie's Wife.

Kace

PS..Remember in the book, JWJ is the Kentucky Jesse Woodson and JR (Dingus) James is the Missouri Jesse.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

One of the surprises for me in the BB was the KGC's apparent strong relationships with African Americans and Native Americans. The blacks as seemingly important-level field operatives and the tribes in some sort of alliances in specific regions of the country. I don't see either group in any sort of slave role. If this idea is true, learning how the blacks and natives were recruited and motivated would be interesting to know.

Regarding the work needed for the alleged caches, I think the hard jobs were likely done by all sorts of folks who had no idea what they truly were working on - underground mines, public works projects, etc. When the time came for hiding the money, I believe that crew was higher-level, well-paid and well-threatened to keep quiet. There may well be some level of monitoring of sites (the Utes come to mind), but I think any threat from "Sentinels" is greatly exaggerated.

Joe Blow is a "Useful Idiot" in the classic Lenin sense, IMO. Targeted in many cases because he's vulnerable to "treasure tales" (Mexican with a map), observant enough to find the "signs" (carvings, templates, altered terrain, gravestone messages, etc), persistent enough to doggedly chase the legend, establishing an "awareness of treasure" in a certain vicinity. This keeps the new searchers circling the wrong area for years, thus adding security for the alleged prize. Every 40 or 50 years, a new Joe Blow is found.

These ideas are speculations on my part.

Speculation is what drives us as treasure hunters. When you begin hunting the treasure with tangible artifacts in your hand leading you, it takes a turn but the speculation never stops because nothing about symbolism is certain. I hope you are right about the slaves because I really don't want to have to dig through them to get what we want.

{_I think the hard jobs were likely done by all sorts of folks who had no idea what they truly were working on -)

I think that too.